My first time ever having to move palms inside because it’s cold out

[chad2468emr]

After getting into palms in South Florida (zone 10b) it’s really weird having to take some of my more sensitive palms and tropicals inside because of the forecasted low temp. When I moved to Central FL I don’t think I’d fully grasped how much chillier it can be here, or I at least thought it’d be more infrequent!

An occasional dip into the 40’s and (on one occasion) into the 30’s was fine down there because in a day or so it was straight back into the 70’s, 80’s, and 90’s, so stuff could bounce back quick. But I’ve got some stuff in pots up here that are not alright with consistent lows like that and highs that don’t keep them warm enough... over the next 9 days only three are forecasted to get into the 70’s, and some not even the 60’s. Lows are mostly in the mid to high 40’s, but tomorrow it’s dropping to 37! 

I didn’t quite realize how large this coconut had gotten since I’d bought it, but the thing barely fits in my foyer and it’s certainly not light, so I’m hoping after this little cold spell, we have a nice mild winter here in Central FL. I’ve also got all of my smaller seedlings and some more expensive tropicals inside that I don’t feel like stressing even a little.  My A. vestiaria is in that white pot on the bench all the way to the left. My C. renda (not pictured) is going to be staying inside until we can get daily highs back in the mid 70’s in a week or so.

All things considered, I’ll take this over the winters in grew up with in NY but it’s definitely not SFL either.  

[NickJames]

I’m with you. Freaking out here in Volusia. 
 

Work in progress earlier trying to wrap my cocos. 
 

Good news is, it is Protected from all directions by two story homes except SE and S.

[kinzyjr]

For us up this way, mild winter = nothing below a short duration 30F-35F event.  I wish I could tell you that the whole "zone 10 urban heat island" thing makes those of us in cities impervious to freezes and cold events, but unfortunately we still need to construct an east to west mountain range at the top of Canada to keep all the cold air from plunging down the continent.

@NickJames From the look of it, this cold event has a similar trajectory to the brief radiational event in January 2008, only weaker and coming before the water has had a chance to cool off.  During that event, the weather stations on the east side of the state held higher temperatures than the western side by a significant margin.  Even Fernandina Beach stayed above 30F vs. those of us inland in Polk getting hit with the mid and high 20s. That means you'll probably not have to worry about losing anything from this event and will likely stay milder than the 37F we're figuring to have overnight tomorrow at our airport.  Monitor the temperature - Daytona might not even go below 40F.

[JLM]

I just wrapped my queens with lights. Towel is wrapped around the growth point, and the fronds are tied up. All of my tropicals are inside tonight. My foxtail, bottle, my backup queen, my pygmys, and all of my smaller stuff such as the palmetto seedlings and my baby sago pup i rescued is moved inside. I hate this time of year so much.

Edited December 1, 2020 by JLM

[chad2468emr]

6 minutes ago, NickJames said:

I’m with you. Freaking out here in Volusia. 
 

Work in progress earlier trying to wrap my cocos. 
 

Good news is, it is Protected from all directions by two story homes except SE and S.

Haha digging the cheetah print! Good luck!! That’s a beautiful palm so I hope it does well. 

You new here from a warmer zone too? I really hope this is more infrequent than it seems considering tomorrow is only the first of Dec and it’s my first winter. 10 years in Fort Lauderdale and saw the 30’s once, and I’ve been here for three months... I’m scared haha 

I considered using lights, but I figured since it’s in a pot, I can deal with it and haul it. Anything too large for me to carry / fit inside is staying outside no matter HOW cold it gets, but they’re all hardy anyway which was on purpose. The only one I’m worried about is my A. Alexandrae because it’s potted, but I know they do pretty well in the cold in-ground as long as there isn’t frost, so I considered wrapping it in lights to help. 

[NickJames]

3 minutes ago, kinzyjr said:

For us up this way, mild winter = nothing below a short duration 30F-35F event.  I wish I could tell you that the whole "zone 10 urban heat island" thing makes those of us in cities impervious to freezes and cold events, but unfortunately we still need to construct an east to west mountain range at the top of Canada to keep all the cold air from plunging down the continent.

@NickJames From the look of it, this cold event has a similar trajectory to the brief radiational event in January 2008, only weaker and coming before the water has had a chance to cool off.  During that event, the weather stations on the east side of the state held higher temperatures than the western side by a significant margin.  Even Fernandina Beach stayed above 30F vs. those of us inland in Polk getting hit with the mid and high 20s. That means you'll probably not have to worry about losing anything from this event and will likely stay milder than the 37F we're figuring to have overnight tomorrow at our airport.  Monitor the temperature - Daytona might not even go below 40F.

I’m watching VERY intently (obsessing)...I’m KFLDAYTO84 on Wunderground if anyone cares. 

I am usually below DAB for radiational events, and above DAB for advective. 

I couldn’t ask for a better backyard location as it is only open to the SE and S

My weather station is the most accurate one I’ve ever had. It underperforms wind speeds though on anything W, NW, and N as wind is knocked down by the homes. 

[NickJames]

6 minutes ago, chad2468emr said:

Haha digging the cheetah print! Good luck!! That’s a beautiful palm so I hope it does well. 

You new here from a warmer zone too? I really hope this is more infrequent than it seems considering tomorrow is only the first of Dec and it’s my first winter. 10 years in Fort Lauderdale and saw the 30’s once, and I’ve been here for three months... I’m scared haha 

I considered using lights, but I figured since it’s in a pot, I can deal with it and haul it. Anything too large for me to carry / fit inside is staying outside no matter HOW cold it gets, but they’re all hardy anyway which was on purpose. The only one I’m worried about is my A. Alexandrae because it’s potted, but I know they do pretty well in the cold in-ground as long as there isn’t frost, so I considered wrapping it in lights to help. 

It’s so funny, I just picked the first one I saw at Target because I figured nobody would ever see it....and then I post a photo on the internet!!

No, I’m actually from a technically colder zone (Fernandina Beach most recently, Jacksonville before that). 

I was a senior in high school in Jax for the horrific 2010 winter. I remember I would drive to school and my windshield was not even visible out of it due to the thick frost day after day. 

Living in Fernandina Beach was interesting because apart from the 2018 advective event, I never saw a freeze. My temperature didn’t plummet like a rock during calm, cold nights like it does on the western side of Daytona where I am now. The immediate coastline outside Jacksonville stays fairly mild.

[kinzyjr]

22 minutes ago, NickJames said:

I’m watching VERY intently (obsessing)...I’m KFLDAYTO84 on Wunderground if anyone cares. 

I am usually below DAB for radiational events, and above DAB for advective. 

I couldn’t ask for a better backyard location as it is only open to the SE and S

My weather station is the most accurate one I’ve ever had. It underperforms wind speeds though on anything W, NW, and N as wind is knocked down by the homes.

You have a good setup.  If you were growing a lipstick palm outside, I'd be concerned LOL. 

One of the closer weather stations to me is the SugarCane station: https://www.wunderground.com/weather/us/fl/lakeland/KFLLAKEL124

[NickJames]

17 minutes ago, kinzyjr said:

You have a good setup.  If you were growing a lipstick palm outside, I'd be concerned LOL. 

One of the closer weather stations to me is the SugarCane station: https://www.wunderground.com/weather/us/fl/lakeland/KFLLAKEL124

Omg! Look at the elevation. 232 feet. Wow. 

[JLM]

https://www.wunderground.com/weather/us/fl/milton/KFLMILTO123
My nearest station, ill be watching it.

[kinzyjr]

6 hours ago, NickJames said:

Omg! Look at the elevation. 232 feet. Wow. 

The top of the hill is ~272 feet.  Definitely keeps the floodwaters away in our neck of the woods.

[DCA_Palm_Fan]

Funny, some of the local TV mets forecast lows around  45-50 for Pinellas last night.  Coastal Pinellas on / near the water was mid-upper 50's for lows.  Inland Pinellas was upper 40's to low 50's.  Inland away from Tampa Bay in hillsboro saw some mid to low 40s in cooler spots.   Its def chilly but not as cold as some forecast.  Tonight will be the test..   IF these winds stay up that will help keep temps up a little bit, as will if there is any cloud cover.   no wind and clear is what will bring the coldest possible temps with frost.   I still don't think I will see much lower than 50F where Im at though. 

[sonoranfans]

saw 55F last night, latest report says 48F tonight but it depends on how deep in a southern direction the advective front goes.  In an advective cold there is less nearby water protection and more protection with being further south.  In a ratdiational cold, the water is a big help as heat rising from the warmer water isnt blown away by the wind.   canopy and nearby woods are great in the radiational cold, and windblock is critical in advective cold since the wind blows away the heat radiating from the ground.  If you have no windblock or overhead it can be tough.  There was a window where my yard was wide open with no windblock and no canopy.  Now that things have grown up I have plenty of windblock and a good amount of palm canopy with oak woods to the south.   My landscaping out front(north, where the cold comes from) is open with 5-6 big fan palms spread out. These are good to at least 26F, some to less than 20F.  IN the back southern part of the yard things are planted more densely and plenty of windblock of the northern and western winds.  In back are the 10a palms.  After ten years and everything being grown in, I dont worry much anymore.  But  wide open yard, even down here, would have me worring about my more tender palms. 

[DallasPalms]

Some plants you can keep low near concrete and especially near a house that will prevent frost for alot of established plants. Potted plants do better with warm roots, some benefit from placement on the south side of a house when it freezes. Also for light frosts its beneficial to douse a plant with water when barely at freezing range the water releases some heat units as it freezes... cover for deep dreezes @ for plants growing in ground

I had three little agaves on a table overnight and they turned into popsicles... hopefully they thawed out fine. The centers looked fine. I brought in my non trucked baby palms just incase even the cold hardy ones... I freaked out late because some other seedlings i have growing in small containers were frozen at 35f. They appear to be fine tho i brought them in and water thawed. Next year i can cover most of my little plants with leaves and leave them out probably

[DoomsDave]

YIKE, good luck to you all over there.

First a long hurricane season, now this right on the heels.

[Johnny Palmseed]

4 hours ago, sonoranfans said:

saw 55F last night, latest report says 48F tonight but it depends on how deep in a southern direction the advective front goes.  In an advective cold there is less nearby water protection and more protection with being further south.  In a ratdiational cold, the water is a big help as heat rising from the warmer water isnt blown away by the wind.   canopy and nearby woods are great in the radiational cold, and windblock is critical in advective cold since the wind blows away the heat radiating from the ground.  If you have no windblock or overhead it can be tough.  There was a window where my yard was wide open with no windblock and no canopy.  Now that things have grown up I have plenty of windblock and a good amount of palm canopy with oak woods to the south.   My landscaping out front(north, where the cold comes from) is open with 5-6 big fan palms spread out. These are good to at least 26F, some to less than 20F.  IN the back southern part of the yard things are planted more densely and plenty of windblock of the northern and western winds.  In back are the 10a palms.  After ten years and everything being grown in, I dont worry much anymore.  But  wide open yard, even down here, would have me worring about my more tender palms. 

Nice to be a little further south. When I woke up it said 48F on my outdoor thermostat probe. Calling for 43 tonight. That’s a pretty big shock considering it really hasn’t been below about 68 so far.

[chad2468emr]

UGH... haha. I was hoping something would change and we wouldn't see lows beneath 40. With the wind chill, I'm likely to see "feels like" temps in the low 30's and even upper 20's, so even if I don't get frost, the wind is going to be killer. 

All of my palms and tropicals are being taken inside tonight, even the ones on the enclosed / screened back patio sheltered from frost since they're small. I'm not risking my licualas and a few other sensitives back there when I can move them. Out front, I have a washy, butia, B. alfredii, mule, D. pembana, and A. alexandrae double that will be weathering it out outside since they're too large to take in. They're all next to a SW facing cement wall that gets sun by 8am though, so I'm hopeful they'll be okay. Even though most of those are pretty darn hardy, I want to avoid foliage loss / damage, and they'll be covered with blankets. The a. alexandrae and b. alfredii are also getting rope lights wrapped around them and on top of their soil with blankets wrapped / covering there as well. Might not be SO necessary for those two, but I'm too worried about that wind. 

Its a shame we got hammered with that ran as that front came through too, so everything is soaking wet, and it also sucks that its going to stay sub-70 for so long afterwards and not bouncing right back into warmer temps because it will prolong and drag out what could otherwise be minimal damage to some of the extra-tropical palms. 

Wishing all my fellow Central Floridians success tonight and over the next week and a half or so!

[sonoranfans]

18 minutes ago, chad2468emr said:

UGH... haha. I was hoping something would change and we wouldn't see lows beneath 40. With the wind chill, I'm likely to see "feels like" temps in the low 30's and even upper 20's, so even if I don't get frost, the wind is going to be killer. 

All of my palms and tropicals are being taken inside tonight, even the ones on the enclosed / screened back patio sheltered from frost since they're small. I'm not risking my licualas and a few other sensitives back there when I can move them. Out front, I have a washy, butia, B. alfredii, mule, D. pembana, and A. alexandrae double that will be weathering it out outside since they're too large to take in. They're all next to a SW facing cement wall that gets sun by 8am though, so I'm hopeful they'll be okay. Even though most of those are pretty darn hardy, I want to avoid foliage loss / damage, and they'll be covered with blankets. The a. alexandrae and b. alfredii are also getting rope lights wrapped around them and on top of their soil with blankets wrapped / covering there as well. Might not be SO necessary for those two, but I'm too worried about that wind. 

Its a shame we got hammered with that ran as that front came through too, so everything is soaking wet, and it also sucks that its going to stay sub-70 for so long afterwards and not bouncing right back into warmer temps because it will prolong and drag out what could otherwise be minimal damage to some of the extra-tropical palms. 

Wishing all my fellow Central Floridians success tonight and over the next week and a half or so!

Dont bother with the alfredii and lights, the archie alexanders are at risk, not the alfredii I think.

[chad2468emr]

5 minutes ago, sonoranfans said:

Dont bother with the alfredii and lights, the archie alexanders are at risk, not the alfredii I think.

I've read mixed stuff on that, so I'm just going to play it safe. I read they defoliate very easily in cold, so better safe than sorry when it'll take me about 20 mins to tie the fronds up and wrap with lights / blankets, haha. 

[NickJames]

Based on Dew point, if I get clear skies and calm winds tonight I will go right to 32. I’m hoping for at least some wind to bump me to 34-36. 
 

I added another layer of cocos protection today with the addition of a propane heater. 

[chad2468emr]

1 minute ago, NickJames said:

Based on Dew point, if I get clear skies and calm winds tonight I will go right to 32. I’m hoping for at least some wind to bump me to 34-36. 
 

I added another layer of cocos protection today with the addition of a propane heater. 

1) Your dog is adorable. 

2) Have you thought about tying the fronds up together in a pillar and then wrapping in lights / a blanket? It'll help prevent foliage damage esp since frost is so possible. 

[NickJames]

5 minutes ago, chad2468emr said:

1) Your dog is adorable. 

2) Have you thought about tying the fronds up together in a pillar and then wrapping in lights / a blanket? It'll help prevent foliage damage esp since frost is so possible. 

She is 1 of 6

Yes, but I also worry about damaging the fronds in the process as well for what would be a “survivable” event. I’m thinking we may stay warm enough and the rising heat may prevent it...just maybe. 
 

[Merlyn]

I dropped down to 41F this morning, and the local Sanford airport said 42F as a minimum.  Our high was 56F and it's already down to 45F...so the predicted 39-41F for ~6 hours is definitely possible.  No protecting stuff in my yard tonight!  I typically hit 28-32F twice per year here, but it's usually in early January instead of early December.

[necturus]

My Beccariophoenix alfredii saw a frost last night and a few times over the last couple years. It shrugs off 30 like it ain’t no thang.

[RedRabbit]

Any word on the risk of frost tonight? It may hit 35 here so that’s cold enough for frost to form. 

[kinzyjr]

3 minutes ago, RedRabbit said:

Any word on the risk of frost tonight? It may hit 35 here so that’s cold enough for frost to form. 

NWS is calling for patchy frost in our area.

[Johnny Palmseed]

49F at 8pm. No clouds. Light NW wind. Predicted to be a low of 44F. I wouldn’t be surprised if it goes lower.

[JohnAndSancho]

It hit 34 here last night. I brought in everything except my Washy Xmas tree, and I ended up wrapping him in a flannel sheet and moving it closer to the apartment. 

[sonoranfans]

52F now low of 43F expected, I wont even bother starting up the firepit tonight, that will be coming later this winter.  I'm feeling for you guys that have cocos ...

[NickJames]

1 hour ago, kinzyjr said:

NWS is calling for patchy frost in our area.

Same here. My cocos fronds are very damp already. FML. 

[JLM]

8pm CST - Temp 34F with a dewpoint of 30F. Winds a very light. Forecasted low of 27F, i expect widespread frost.

[chad2468emr]

Well literally every palm and tropical I own is inside except for my beccariophoenix, butia, washy, a. alexandrae duo, mule palm, and d. pembana. Everything’s covered with towels / blankets to prevent frost damage, and I threw in some lights for good measure with the alexandraes. 

My neighbors are going to think I’ve got a body hidden in here, or that I’ve got the worlds ugliest artificial Christmas tree. 

 

[CodyORB]

32F overnight low. Frost everywhere. Luckily no accumulation on my Coconut.

Jubaea seedling shows no damage but I’ll hold my breath. If you look closely it’s pushing out a new leaf!

Edited December 2, 2020 by CodyORB

[Merlyn]

It was 36F most of the night here, with a full blanket of frost.  My two small 5-6' coconuts out front definitely got frost, so we'll see how they turn out in a few days.  I kept the other frost-sensitive stuff outside, it was under queen palm canopy that seemed to work well to prevent frost on the nursery area.  You can see near the queens how the frost stops at the edge.  The rest of the roof was 100% covered in frost.

[NickJames]

Got down to 36.5, which is better than I hoped. We had a light wind pick up around 3am per my weather station. That mixed up the air enough until sunrise. 
 

Light frost observed on western and northern facing areas. It wasn’t visible on the grass until very close inspection when I was taking off the palm protections. 
 
No frost observed on any elevated plants such as my palms. 

[JLM]

Frost covered everything here, had another low of 27F.

Edited December 2, 2020 by JLM
Spelling

[Johnny Palmseed]

42 here vs the predicted 44. This is exactly why I stopped pushing the envelope. These are January temps in December. Who knows what’s next. The good thing is that it’s not raining and cold, so this damage will probably be superficial. However, the weather forecast does show more cold coming in which will reinforce this front. Prolonged cold or even cool temps will stress these plants and if it gets wet, forget it. I had a flashback of me about 15-20 years ago while looking at @chad2468emr photos. I had even built an emergency pseudo greenhouse when we lived in Jacksonville, circa 2000-2001. We had recently moved back from living up north and I had gone “tropical plant crazy”. I had no more room in the house and we were expecting temps in the low 20s. Lumber and plastic sheeting covering with lights underneath. Most of the plants survived but what a pain. It was doable then as I was in my 30s but not now.

[chad2468emr]

Small degree of frost here in Kissimmee on roofs and cars this morning according to my spouse, but I slept in until 8:00 and it was all gone by then. Wunderground is reporting a low at the nearest station of 42, so good to know that my living well outside of the city in a development in the woods let us get cold enough to see some frost. 

I probably over-reacted with the level of protection I provided some of my hardier palms, but I've never had a palm outside when temps were anywhere near what we saw last night, and I seriously can't get over the fact that I live in Florida and had FROST last night.... 8 years in SFL really messes with your expectations for what "Florida weather" means, haha. 

1 hour ago, Johnny Palmseed said:

... the weather forecast does show more cold coming in which will reinforce this front. Prolonged cold or even cool temps will stress these plants and if it gets wet, forget it...

This is what's stressing me out so much! All my palms got DUMPED on by torrential downpours the morning this front moved through, so I'm really hating the fact that we have another 10 days or so of chilly weather ahead of us. Not much potential for frost coming up given most lows are above 45, so I will be leaving everything outside unprotected except seedlings, my C. Renda, my coconut, my a. vestiaria, and my monstera albo. (all of which are living inside for the next few weeks except the coconut that I'm hauling in / out every day) That being said, the consistently chilly weather and lack of warmth during the day is going to leave me with some stressed plants on my hands.... 

I have a large screened in patio in the back and I'm considering buying large plastic sheets to cover the screen each night and setting up a space heater to minimize their stress. Debating if its worth the trouble or not, though.

Edited December 2, 2020 by chad2468emr

[sonoranfans]

if you use a space heater use oil filled radiator.  Any hot air forced IR/fan cermaic/fan etc will potentially dessicate leaves.  I do suspect that some of your palms are permanent inside during winter plants, not just this year

12 minutes ago, chad2468emr said:

Small degree of frost here in Kissimmee on roofs and cars this morning according to my spouse, but I slept in until 8:00 and it was all gone by then. Wunderground is reporting a low at the nearest station of 42, so good to know that my living well outside of the city in a development in the woods let us get cold enough to see some frost. 

I probably over-reacted with the level of protection I provided some of my hardier palms, but I've never had a palm outside when temps were anywhere near what we saw last night, and I seriously can't get over the fact that I live in Florida and had FROST last night.... 8 years in SFL really messes with your expectations for what "Florida weather" means, haha. 

This is what's stressing me out so much! All my palms got DUMPED on my torrential downpours the morning this front moved through, so I'm really hating the fact that we have another 10 days or so of chilly weather ahead of us. Not much potential for frost coming up given most lows are above 45, so I will be leaving everything outside unprotected except seedlings, my C. Renda, my coconut, my a. vestiaria, and my monstera albo. (all of which are living inside for the next few weeks except the coconut that I'm hauling in / out every day) That being said, the consistently chilly weather and lack of warmth during the day is going to leave me with some stressed plants on my hands.... 

I have a large screened in patio in the back and I'm considering buying large plastic sheets to cover the screen each night and setting up a space heater to minimize their stress. Debating if its worth the trouble or not, though.

.

[chad2468emr]

Just now, sonoranfans said:

if you use a space heater use oil filled radiator.  Any hot air forced IR/fan cermaic/fan etc will potentially dessicate leaves.  I do suspect that some of your palms are permanent inside during winter plants, not just this year

.

Yeah I figured the vestiaria and renda would be spending a good bit of time inside, haha. I have two different licualas (sumawongii and grandis) outside which are the only two I feel like I SHOULD take in given the consistent chilly weather we're expecting, but I don't have enough room for them in here so we'll see how that goes.