Bismarckia in 8b?

[JLM]

From experience, do yall think a Bismarckia would work in zone 8b with protection? I am technically a warm 8b almost 9a, but when it comes down to it zones dont matter. I have been on the freeze damage data looking at this and it seems like 22F is the limit on cold. I wouldnt mind eventually getting one to experiment, or do you think it would be a waste of money and time?

[Collectorpalms]

I saw you were from Santa Rosa County, Florida. I am in Zone 8b in Texas. If you are south of Interstate 10, I would try them  If your in the rural area then it’s going to be harder. I am in Zone 8b in a large town with hotel and a University that take the edge of non wind cold events. I only really have to worry about windy affective events which take out the urban heat effect which we have had twice in 20 years. Plus they have big leaves prone to get wind tattered and are harder to wrap than say a younger queen.

Edited November 20, 2020 by Collectorpalms

[JLM]

4 hours ago, Collectorpalms said:

I saw you were from Santa Rosa County, Florida. I am in Zone 8b in Texas. If you are south of Interstate 10, I would try them  If your in the rural area then it’s going to be harder. I am in Zone 8b in a large town with hotel and a University that take the edge of non wind cold events. I only really have to worry about windy affective events which take out the urban heat effect which we have had twice in 20 years. Plus they have big leaves prone to get wind tattered and are harder to wrap than say a younger queen.

I am about 8 miles north of I-10 at its closest point. I dont have any wind protection, besides the house itself. The wind is always a problem here with almost every cold front.

[Xenon]

Check out this thread: https://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?/topic/65025-largest-zone-pushed-bismarckia/&

tl;dr Bismarckia is around the same level as a queen palm in 9a Texas, but grow best in areas where large queens are plentiful and not too marginal. It has also proven to be hardy in areas where queens are somewhat marginal (but no total wipeout in the last 30 years) and when considering bud hardiness, seem to be even slightly more hardy than queens.  However, Bismarckia foliage gets trashed in the low 20s so the best specimens in Houston are found in areas where you also find pygmy dates. Functionally, it is still a warm 9a or 9a/b type of palm (similar to a pygmy date) unless you are okay with a semi-perpetual burned look barring a string of mild winters. 

Edited November 20, 2020 by Xenon

[Fallen Munk]

I'm germinating a few in 8b, but I plan on wintering them indoors until they get too big to move and then hopefully I'll have my heated greenhouse done by then.  Some winters here are mild enough that I think they'd survive, but eventually we'd get a year where we get a hard freeze that lasts for two or more weeks and it would be done.  That happens every five to seven years fairly consistently.

Edited November 20, 2020 by Fallen Munk

[Chester B]

9 minutes ago, Fallen Munk said:

I'm germinating a few in 8b, but I plan on wintering them indoors until they get too big to move and then hopefully I'll have my heated greenhouse done by then.  Some winters here are mild enough that I think they'd survive, but eventually we'd get a year where we get a hard freeze that lasts for two or more weeks and it would be done.  That happens every five to seven years fairly consistently.

I think if we had a freeze that long we wouldn't have any palms growing here.  The longest stretch below freezing I've seen is 2.5 days, and that was the wicked winter of 2016, during our "Snowpocalypse" we had in January.  Aside from that stretch I haven't recorded a day that didn't go above freezing.  Picture from the day after January 11. 

Edited November 20, 2020 by Chester B

[Xenon]

58 minutes ago, Fallen Munk said:

I'm germinating a few in 8b, but I plan on wintering them indoors until they get too big to move and then hopefully I'll have my heated greenhouse done by then.  Some winters here are mild enough that I think they'd survive, but eventually we'd get a year where we get a hard freeze that lasts for two or more weeks and it would be done.  That happens every five to seven years fairly consistently.

I think the greater concern in your climate would be the lack of heat. I don't think it would grow at all in your climate for half of the year and would probably rot away before that. This is a warm/heat loving palm. 

[Chester B]

13 minutes ago, Xenon said:

I think the greater concern in your climate would be the lack of heat. I don't think it would grow at all in your climate for half of the year and would probably rot away before that. This is a warm/heat loving palm. 

Most likely.  Many palms hate our damp winters, that's what does a lot of them in, and that why Trachycarpus love it here. 

I find once the heat lovers start showing rapid growth we've already begun to cool down for the year.  If we had one more hot month it would make a big difference.

[JLM]

I know these palms like full sun, but could it be grown in partial shade? I just cleared out an area earlier this afternoon to plant a sabal i dug up earlier. I figured maybe the bismarckia could go there. Its a decent size space in the back corner of the fence behind one of my large crape myrtles. The guy that lives next to me built a small building on the other side of the fence during summer, wind wouldnt seem to be a problem for a while. The crape myrtle would provide a canopy to protect it from hard frosts. The only problem would be supplying heat to it if need be during winter, that would take a decent amount of extension cord lol

[Fallen Munk]

6 hours ago, Chester B said:

I think if we had a freeze that long we wouldn't have any palms growing here. 

Well, I can tell you this,  one winter my four foot deep koi pond was solid ice 16" thick.  I could walk on it no problem.  We went about two weeks with the temps either at or slightly below freezing.  My T. fortunei came through just fine.  About ten years ago I measured 14F in my detached shop and my anodizing tank was frozen solid, which ain't an easy thing to do to a super saturated acid solution.  I hope those days are long gone, but I wouldn't bet on it.  The lowest temperature ever recorded here is -12F.

[Fallen Munk]

6 hours ago, Xenon said:

I think the greater concern in your climate would be the lack of heat. I don't think it would grow at all in your climate for half of the year and would probably rot away before that. This is a warm/heat loving palm. 

There was a nursery here in the PNW that used to raise and sell them in limited numbers.  Not sure how they did it, but it did catch me by surprise.

[Chester B]

On 11/20/2020 at 6:58 PM, Fallen Munk said:

There was a nursery here in the PNW that used to raise and sell them in limited numbers.  Not sure how they did it, but it did catch me by surprise.

There still is but they put them in the greenhouse for winter, along with the other tender palms they have.

[SouthFLA]

Bismarckia won't survive a winter in zone 8. Try Sabal uresana instead, similar in size and appearance. Will handle your winter temps.

[ahosey01]

On 11/20/2020 at 8:40 AM, Xenon said:

Check out this thread: https://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?/topic/65025-largest-zone-pushed-bismarckia/&

tl;dr Bismarckia is around the same level as a queen palm in 9a Texas, but grow best in areas where large queens are plentiful and not too marginal. It has also proven to be hardy in areas where queens are somewhat marginal (but no total wipeout in the last 30 years) and when considering bud hardiness, seem to be even slightly more hardy than queens.  However, Bismarckia foliage gets trashed in the low 20s so the best specimens in Houston are found in areas where you also find pygmy dates. Functionally, it is still a warm 9a or 9a/b type of palm (similar to a pygmy date) unless you are okay with a semi-perpetual burned look barring a string of mild winters. 

Mine has taken 24F with 0 damage BUT... this was in bone-dry Arizona after having not been watered in over a month.

I have a suspicion these things could survive a brief dip to 17F-19F in dry conditions if the following day was warm.  I think those are the two most important factors - dryness and daytime warmth.

I think the lowest daytime high we’ve ever had was like 46 though.  It’s always warm during the days.

Edited December 26, 2020 by ahosey01

[JLM]

I now have 11 Bismarckia seeds, and i just got them in the greenhouse for germination today. They will come inside on every night as there is currently no source of heat in the greenhouse. A heat source will be added soon  

[climate change virginia]

maybe with good protection it could work

[Allen]

3 hours ago, climate change virginia said:

maybe with good protection it could work

These get too big to protect fast.

[Meangreen94z]

They’ve survived wet/icy high teens in the Houston area. Depending on the extent you’re willing to protect/assist them during a weather event they might survive for a while. 

[Estlander]

On 12/27/2020 at 1:51 PM, JLM said:

I now have 11 Bismarckia seeds, and i just got them in the greenhouse for germination today. They will come inside on every night as there is currently no source of heat in the greenhouse. A heat source will be added soon  

If you get a good germination rate and are willing to let one or two go, let’s make a deal of some kind or a trade. 

[JLM]

Figured i would update this thread. 2 years later only 1 out of the 11 is still alive to this day. The germination rate wasnt terrible, its just that the seedings died quickly for some reason. The only surviving seedling has just started going palmate. Up to this point i can still put a large bucket over it with a heat source inside for winter protection. This was the method used during the Christmas freeze and the seedling was untouched and is still growing.

[Jerrrod]

Any new updates?

[JLM]

On 11/26/2023 at 11:38 AM, Jerrrod said:

Any new updates?

Yes! Heres a pic from less than 5 minutes of the time of this post: 



Its getting big!

[D Palm]

My climate is identical to yours. I have 3 bizzy…still after a few years. The bigger you can get them, the better off you will be. Looks like pine bark mulch? Cypress mulch is your best bet. Do it like this so it does not rot your palm at the base. Notice mulch, bare dirt for air flow, then base of trunk. Other pic is mine after a 19F blast last winter. There’s nothing to block the wind.
 

 

[Jerrrod]

On 11/29/2023 at 2:15 PM, JLM said:

Yes! Heres a pic from less than 5 minutes of the time of this post: 



Its getting big!

Glad to see it’s still going strong.