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Daryl
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Hi Jon, what were your recent low temperatures to cause that kind of damage?

How much colder than a usual winter low was it?

regards,

Daryl

Gold Coast, Queensland Latitude 28S. Mild, Humid Subtropical climate. Rainfall - not consistent enough!

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Here is a Dypsis lutescens in the next valley over from my place. what kind of temps does it take to do this???

Daryl

brown-cane.jpg

Gold Coast, Queensland Latitude 28S. Mild, Humid Subtropical climate. Rainfall - not consistent enough!

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(Daryl @ Jul. 27 2007,07:22)

QUOTE
Here is a Dypsis lutescens in the next valley over from my place. what kind of temps does it take to do this???

Daryl

brown-cane.jpg

Good God.

My closest experience to that with a D. lutescens was in January 2003 when we had a very nasty and windy 27-28F (-3C).  My D. Lutescens (which at the time was smaller than the one in your pic) only had about 1/3 as much burn.

But, the good news is these palms come back easily and quickly and today is no worse for wear.

Larry 

Palm Harbor, FL 10a / Ft Myers, FL 10b

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Here is a photo taken at Yandina last week,

This is over the hill from Clayton's a little further inland.

Lookslikecowsinthesnow.jpg

Looks like it is starting to warm up nicely up the coast at Childers but we are in desparate need of rain.  

BIG RAIN TO FILL THE CATCHMENT DAMS

Our water allocation on two of the farms up there has been cut to 3% which is not good.  

Bruce

Now living the life in Childers, Queensland.

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(Daryl @ Jul. 27 2007,04:22)

QUOTE
Here is a Dypsis lutescens in the next valley over from my place. what kind of temps does it take to do this???

I had a D. lutescens just starting to trunk at my old place when it hit -3C.  It looked much better than your picture, but it was also close to my house, not out in the open...

Jack Sayers

East Los Angeles

growing cold tolerant palms halfway between the equator and the arctic circle...

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(Daryl @ Jul. 27 2007,07:22)

QUOTE
Here is a Dypsis lutescens in the next valley over from my place. what kind of temps does it take to do this???

Daryl

brown-cane.jpg

Daryl: I was say this, if it was just a one-night freeze event that caused that much damage, I'd say, based on my own empirical experience with freeze damaged Dypsis lutesens, that that palm saw somewhere close to around 25 degrees F (-3.85C).

On the other hand, I know you have been getting some back to back nights/mornings where you low temps dropped below 0C, so that palm might have seen slightly higher temperatures, say -1C to  -2 C and the palm is showing cumulative freeze/frost damage.

But you know that photo of the freeze damaged coconut palm I posted a few days ago, well,  almost every tender palm around my parts (D. lutesens, coconut, C. mitis, Adonidia, etc.), looked like the photo of your D. lutesens.

I'm very surprised to see so much damage in your locale. The current freezes you've been experiencing must be very unusual indeed.

Mad about palms

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We have resumed to normal winter transmission here. What's a Dypsis lutescens between friends, it's the ornamentals we are/were more concerned about. Daryl, any chance of a pic of your Pigafetta ? Has it gone completely do you think ?

Happy Gardening

Cheers,

Wal

Queensland, Australia.

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There has been a lot of cold front activity in southern Brazil lately.  The forecast is to get to 5 C tonight in Sao Paulo.  That is pretty ugly weather.  I don't know about Australia but in southern Brazil there is little if no heating and 5 C inside ones house is a real drag.  Some of the coldest living I have had was there.  Since the houses are solid brick normally once the cold sets in it is not comfortable at all.  We have been getting the tail end of these cold fronts here in Manaus.  But, the most this does is generate some nice rain and keep the daytime tempertures below 30 C.

dk

Don Kittelson

 

LIFE ON THE RIO NEGRO

03° 06' 07'' South 60° 01' 30'' West

Altitude 92 Meters / 308 feet above sea level

1,500 kms / 932 miles to the mouth of the Amazon River

 

Manaus, Amazonas, Brazil - A Cidade da Floresta

Where the world´s largest Tropical Rainforest embraces the Greatest Rivers in the World. .

82331.gif

 

Click here to visit Amazonas

amazonas2.jpg

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Mate just came back from Brisbane , he saw whole collections of Bromeliads turned to mush from the cold frosts .

Michael in palm paradise,

Tully, wet tropics in Australia, over 4 meters of rain every year.

Home of the Golden Gumboot, its over 8m high , our record annual rainfall.

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(amazondk @ Jul. 29 2007,19:55)

QUOTE
There has been a lot of cold front activity in southern Brazil lately.  The forecast is to get to 5 C tonight in Sao Paulo.  That is pretty ugly weather.  I don't know about Australia but in southern Brazil there is little if no heating and 5 C inside ones house is a real drag.  Some of the coldest living I have had was there.  Since the houses are solid brick normally once the cold sets in it is not comfortable at all.  We have been getting the tail end of these cold fronts here in Manaus.  But, the most this does is generate some nice rain and keep the daytime tempertures below 30 C.

dk

Tomorrow was the 6th freeze in a row. Today a miserable cloudy ,windy day ,drizzle, max. 14`C (forecast was 22´C!!!)and minimum 2.5 this morning. I hate winter!

 Happy that I will not need to cover all my tender palm seedlings tonight...

Carambeí, 2nd tableland of the State Paraná , south Brazil.

Alt:1030m. Native palms: Queen, B. eriospatha, B. microspadix, Allagoptera leucocalyx , A.campestris, Geonoma schottiana, Trithrinax acanthocoma. Subtr. climate, some frosty nights. No dry season. August: driest month. Rain:1700mm

 

I am seeking for cold hardy palms!

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Alberto in the early 90's I worked for a company based in Curitiba.  I spent many a cold night there during the winter.  We got a heavy rain here in Manaus over the weekend which was the very tail end of a cold frount that passed by you.  But, the low temperature was still around 20 C.

dk

Don Kittelson

 

LIFE ON THE RIO NEGRO

03° 06' 07'' South 60° 01' 30'' West

Altitude 92 Meters / 308 feet above sea level

1,500 kms / 932 miles to the mouth of the Amazon River

 

Manaus, Amazonas, Brazil - A Cidade da Floresta

Where the world´s largest Tropical Rainforest embraces the Greatest Rivers in the World. .

82331.gif

 

Click here to visit Amazonas

amazonas2.jpg

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(Alberto @ Jul. 30 2007,15:40)

QUOTE
Tomorrow was the 6th freeze in a row. Today a miserable cloudy ,windy day ,drizzle, max. 14`C (forecast was 22´C!!!)and minimum 2.5 this morning. I hate winter!

 Happy that I will not need to cover all my tender palm seedlings tonight...

I really did think of you Alberto, when I saw the southern map in "blue" on TV (Jornal Nacional) a couple days ago...Please help blowing this Argentine cold front up here to the Northeast. It's not fair that even Don gets some cold and I can't even lower the air conditioner bills throughout the whole winter !!!

Sirinhaém beach, 80 Km south of Recife - Brazil

Tropical oceanic climate, latitude 8° S

Temperature extremes: 25 to 31°C

2000 mm average rainfall, dry summers

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Please be sure to post in the freeze damage data base forum. Sorry for everyone's losses. I agree with Walt, that D. lutescens saw 24 to 25F/-4.4 to -3.9C in my opinion. I saw approximately 0C one time this last winter and a few more nights in the 2 to 3C range and had only very minimal cosmetic damage on a few of my more tender palms. There was patchy frost here and there. And at that, the only fronds damaged were on palms that I COVERED with sheets. I think the sheets were touching the fronds and made them more horizontal. All D. lutescens were virtually untouched in my yard this last winter, it is a pretty tough palm considering there are mature flowering and fruiting ones in my colder area. The one in the picture really did see some really cold temps.

Parrish, FL

Zone 9B

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Just read this in the Brisbane paper......

I guess it's climate change now no global warming.

Bruce

Cold snap bleaches pristine section of reef

Experts blame cold water, wind and air

Climate change could make extremes 'more common'

A RECORD cold snap across southern Queensland has triggered coral bleaching normally associated with the extremes of hot weather linked to climate change.

Scientists say the bleaching has been caused by a combination of cold waters, winds and air temperatures hitting exposed reefs around the Capricorn-Bunker group of islands at the southern end of the reef.

While other sections of the reef appear to have been spared by being fully submerged or far enough north to avoid the worst of the cold snaps in June and July, bleaching has been recorded by University of Queensland researchers on Heron Island, near Rockhampton.

The area is regarded as having some of the most pristine sections of accessible reef.

Coral expert Ove Hoegh-Guldberg, from the University of Queensland's Centre for Marine Studies, warned researchers along the reef to look for bleaching after Townsville experienced one of its coldest days on record, on June 20.

Strong and sustained southerly winds that brought heavy rain to much of southeast Queensland in June and July exacerbated the chilly conditions for coral exposed at low tide and weakened the algae on the coral needed to keep it healthy.

Professor Hoegh-Guldberg said the comfort zone for coral was between 19C and 27C but temperatures had fallen to 8C.

While bleaching from extreme heat affects entire reefs, the cold bleaching appears to be isolated to the tips of wide areas of coral exposed to the chill.

Professor Hoegh-Guldberg said the extreme variation in temperature might be more common as climate change caused hotter summers and colder winters.

CSIRO oceanographer David Griffin said the only noticeably cold currents were further south, around Fraser Island, suggesting water was being cooled at the surface by the air temperature

Now living the life in Childers, Queensland.

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Cycadcenter

Thanks for the bad news  :o

Los Angeles/Pasadena

34° 10' N   118° 18' W

Elevation: 910'/278m

January Average Hi/Lo: 69F/50F

July Average Hi/Lo: 88F/66F

Average Rainfall: 19"/48cm

USDA 11/Sunset 23

http://cdec.water.ca.gov/cgi-progs/queryF?MTW

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Hi Daryl,

Sorry to see that.  The mercury was definitely below 0 deg C.  In the open and with frost, D. lutescens will take on that appearance around 28F.  

Ray

Tampa, Interbay Peninsula, Florida, USA

subtropical USDA Zone 10A

Bokeelia, Pine Island, Florida, USA

subtropical USDA Zone 10B

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More cold mornings, it's very painful 6c min here. Daryl has it colder than me at 3c min and to make matters worse even when it does warm up by the end of the week to 10c min, we still can't see any rain in sight.

There's more yellowing on my palms now than before, the Latania leaves are looking bad now, first time I've seen them look like this.

The middle of the days are lovely though but that doesn't make it any better for the palms.

I wish I was in Darwin

where there is no cold

my palms there would be starring

a greatest story told

but here is where I live

the cold is like a splinter

It sticks and just won't give

Curse this bloody Winter

But where there's life there's hope

As I listen to the magpie sing

We'll slide this wintry slope

Into the mouth of Spring

Then the rains will come

and the sun will shine on down

Leave this seasonal slum

Returning green from brown

:)

Happy Gardening

Cheers,

Wal

Queensland, Australia.

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(Wal @ Aug. 06 2007,08:33)

QUOTE
More cold mornings, it's very painful 6c min here. Daryl has it colder than me at 3c min and to make matters worse even when it does warm up by the end of the week to 10c min, we still can't see any rain in sight.

There's more yellowing on my palms now than before, the Latania leaves are looking bad now, first time I've seen them look like this.

The middle of the days are lovely though but that doesn't make it any better for the palms.

I wish I was in Darwin

where there is no cold

my palms there would be starring

a greatest story told

but here is where I live

the cold is like a splinter

It sticks and just won't give

Curse this bloody Winter

But where there's life there's hope

As I listen to the magpie sing

We'll slide this wintry slope

Into the mouth of Spring

Then the rains will come

and the sun will shine on down

Leave this seasonal slum

Returning green from brown

:)

Just remember that Summer is right around the corner and by Feb. you can hopefully look back and wonder if it really happened since your palms will be nice and green again.

Coastal San Diego, California

Z10b

Dry summer subtropical/Mediterranean

warm summer/mild winter

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Wal,

While not freezing, I would think it was cooler in tropical Queensland as well.  In Florida's horrible 1989 freeze, Havana, Cuba was in the 40's F.

Ray

Tampa, Interbay Peninsula, Florida, USA

subtropical USDA Zone 10A

Bokeelia, Pine Island, Florida, USA

subtropical USDA Zone 10B

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(Ray, Tampa @ Aug. 06 2007,11:01)

QUOTE
 In Florida's horrible 1989 freeze, Havana, Cuba was in the 40's F.

Yeah....I believe Havana hit 44F in 1989 and an even lower 41F in 1981!  Its hard to understand that, but I guess sometimes the cold even makes it all the way down there.

Larry 

Palm Harbor, FL 10a / Ft Myers, FL 10b

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(spockvr6 @ Aug. 06 2007,11:18)

QUOTE

(Ray @ Tampa,Aug. 06 2007,11:01)

QUOTE
 In Florida's horrible 1989 freeze, Havana, Cuba was in the 40's F.

Yeah....I believe Havana hit 44F in 1989 and an even lower 41F in 1981!  Its hard to understand that, but I guess sometimes the cold even makes it all the way down there.

But put it in perspective, Larry. That's still zone 11!

I could only hope and dream my low never dropped below 41 degrees. Still, 41 degrees for Havanna seems bone chilling. I was at Guantanamo  (GITMO) for a month (late '69) and it's never seen low temps like that, although thats much, much farther southeast, around 20 degrees north latitude. It's also desert-like there.

Mad about palms

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(Walt @ Aug. 06 2007,11:30)

QUOTE
But put it in perspective, Larry. That's still zone 11!

I could only hope and dream my low never dropped below 41 degrees.

Yeah Walt....I think Id still take it :D

Larry 

Palm Harbor, FL 10a / Ft Myers, FL 10b

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Here's those cold affected Latania leaves, could be worse I know.

roses7august013.jpg

roses7august014.jpg

Happy Gardening

Cheers,

Wal

Queensland, Australia.

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Wal-

I hope the damage stops there. We had damage "appear" for months after. I still think I'm seeing "funky" leaves showing up that were the "growing point" during the cold. (the REAL slow growers)

Zone 10a at best after 2007 AND 2013, on SW facing hill, 1 1/2 miles from coast in Oceanside, CA. 30-98 degrees, and 45-80deg. about 95% of the time.

"The great workman of nature is time."

"Genius is nothing but a great aptitude for patience."

-George-Louis Leclerc de Buffon-

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Wal,  

I wouldn't sweat that kind of thing.  That's typical "damage" for me in January.

Ray

Tampa, Interbay Peninsula, Florida, USA

subtropical USDA Zone 10A

Bokeelia, Pine Island, Florida, USA

subtropical USDA Zone 10B

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(Wal @ Aug. 06 2007,17:21)

QUOTE
Here's those cold affected Latania leaves, could be worse I know.

roses7august013.jpg

roses7august014.jpg

That's nothing, Wal. My pritchardias look like that on a normal summer day.

Coastal San Diego, California

Z10b

Dry summer subtropical/Mediterranean

warm summer/mild winter

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Whats all the fuss with all you folks there up in Queensland, we are growing most of what you guys are here in NSW. Now thats a challenge! :D

Port Macquarie NSW Australia

Warm temperate to subtropical

Record low of -2C at airport 2006

Pushing the limit of palm survivabilities

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(epicure3 @ Aug. 07 2007,11:16)

QUOTE

(Wal @ Aug. 06 2007,17:21)

QUOTE
Here's those cold affected Latania leaves, could be worse I know.

roses7august013.jpg

roses7august014.jpg

That's nothing, Wal. My pritchardias look like that on a normal summer day.

epicure

Are you being facetious?  Because my pritchardia hillebrandii [planted in late spring] looks sad also.  Not like the photo but not particularly healthy either.  I never know if I am under watering or over watering.   :o

Los Angeles/Pasadena

34° 10' N   118° 18' W

Elevation: 910'/278m

January Average Hi/Lo: 69F/50F

July Average Hi/Lo: 88F/66F

Average Rainfall: 19"/48cm

USDA 11/Sunset 23

http://cdec.water.ca.gov/cgi-progs/queryF?MTW

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(happ @ Aug. 08 2007,08:46)

QUOTE

(epicure3 @ Aug. 07 2007,11:16)

QUOTE

(Wal @ Aug. 06 2007,17:21)

QUOTE
Here's those cold affected Latania leaves, could be worse I know.

roses7august013.jpg

roses7august014.jpg

That's nothing, Wal. My pritchardias look like that on a normal summer day.

epicure

Are you being facetious?  Because my pritchardia hillebrandii [planted in late spring] looks sad also.  Not like the photo but not particularly healthy either.  I never know if I am under watering or over watering.   :o

Well, no, actually. My pritchardias are pretty darn green for the most part. I have both affinis and beccariana. I still have one freeze damaged frond on the affinis that looks like what Wal is talking about. I give them tons of water, btw.

Coastal San Diego, California

Z10b

Dry summer subtropical/Mediterranean

warm summer/mild winter

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