Acoelorraphe wrightii in Central Florida?

[Jimbean]

https://florida.plantatlas.usf.edu/plant.aspx?id=613

 

I have not seen this before.

[Fusca]

13 minutes ago, Jimbean said:

I have not seen this before.

Is that the 'Azul'?

 

[RedRabbit]

They’re native to Hillsborough County? I thought they were only down in the Everglades. 

[Jimbean]

1 hour ago, Fusca said:

Is that the 'Azul'?

I'm not sure.

 

[ruskinPalms]

Very interesting!

[kinzyjr]

@Jimbean  Interesting!  Wouldn't have guessed it was native to Hillsborough given that it was "common knowledge" that they were from the Everglades.  Definitely hardy enough to grow here through even the worst years..

[Jimbean]

My first guess is that this is a small population that had probably escaped into the wild from cultivation, and has since adapted to the local area.  The sample sheet listed was from 2011, but it had to have been posted recently officially.

[Jimbean]

So now there are technically seven palm species native to central Florida.  Granted Roystonea regia, Acoelorraphe wrightii, Sabal minor, and Rhapidophyllum hystrix are super rare in the wild in this area.

[Jimbean]

https://plants.usda.gov/core/profile?symbol=ACWR4

 

The USDA shows it too

[RedRabbit]

On 8/5/2020 at 1:10 PM, Jimbean said:

https://florida.plantatlas.usf.edu/plant.aspx?id=613

 

I have not seen this before.

Apparently these were spotted in NW Hillsborough at the Lake Dan Nature Preserve in Odessa. That’s about 10 miles north of me so I’ll have to check it out soon. 

@Chatta, ever see any wild Acoelorraphe wrightii up there?

[Chatta]

4 hours ago, RedRabbit said:

Apparently these were spotted in NW Hillsborough at the Lake Dan Nature Preserve in Odessa. That’s about 10 miles north of me so I’ll have to check it out soon. 

@Chatta, ever see any wild Acoelorraphe wrightii up there?

I don't think so, i've seen everglades palms but mostly in cultivated areas. The Odessa area was massively clear cut in the 1870s for Turpentine not sure how much is wild verse escaped cultivated plants. I'll go through my old picks of Starkey Park  but can't say I've seen them at Brooker Creek Preserve. I'm not even sure where Lake Dan is?

[RedRabbit]

7 hours ago, Chatta said:

I don't think so, i've seen everglades palms but mostly in cultivated areas. The Odessa area was massively clear cut in the 1870s for Turpentine not sure how much is wild verse escaped cultivated plants. I'll go through my old picks of Starkey Park  but can't say I've seen them at Brooker Creek Preserve. I'm not even sure where Lake Dan is?

This is the first I’ve heard of Lake Dan to be honest, apparently it’s about 2-3 miles west of you:

https://www.hillsboroughcounty.org/en/locations/lake-dan-nature-preserve

I don’t recall ever seeing any growing wild around here, but I’ll start keeping an eye out. It doesn’t really make sense a lone strand of these would be growing wild on a lake in Odessa. 

[Austinpalm]

Are there known naturalized stands of Acoelorraphe wrightii in central or north Florida?  I see this planted around the Texas gulf coast with some regularity.  They usually look healthy when situated correctly, but have never noticed any volunteers getting started outside of gardens.  It is a fairly cold hardy species, but does not run wild like Sabals or Washingtonia.  Not sure why. Is there a pollinator or some other growth variable that is only present in South Florida?

[Jimbean]

1 hour ago, Austinpalm said:

Are there known naturalized stands of Acoelorraphe wrightii in central or north Florida?  I see this planted around the Texas gulf coast with some regularity.  They usually look healthy when situated correctly, but have never noticed any volunteers getting started outside of gardens.  It is a fairly cold hardy species, but does not run wild like Sabals or Washingtonia.  Not sure why. Is there a pollinator or some other growth variable that is only present in South Florida?

I think they are picky about soil, but I've seen volunteers pop up before in central Florida.

[kinzyjr]

From my experience growing Acoelorraphe wrightii from seed, they are a bit like Roystonea regia in that an inordinate number of seedlings damp off.  Considering they are both native to swamps, not exactly what I'd expect in relatively quick draining planting medium.  I did put a seedling in the yard and it has grown slowly but steadily.  Others may have better luck or input.

[RedRabbit]

I visited the Lake Dan Nature Preserve today where the alleged Acoelorraphe wrightii are located. I didn’t see any A wrightii, but I saw a few what appear to be very tall Serenoa repens:

The one in the back has 12ft or more of trunk so perhaps it was misidentified as A wrightii.

Unfortunately, I didn’t get to see much of the park so it’s possible some A wrightii do exist there that I simply didn’t see. It’s not a bad park and I look forward to going back when I have more time.

Edited August 22, 2020 by RedRabbit

[RedRabbit]

On 8/5/2020 at 9:22 PM, Jimbean said:

My first guess is that this is a small population that had probably escaped into the wild from cultivation, and has since adapted to the local area.  The sample sheet listed was from 2011, but it had to have been posted recently officially.

After having visited the park I think this is unlikely. The park is in a rural area with just a few ranches nearby. 

My theory is the A wrightii were really S repens. 

[Chatta]

I saw a very large stand of A. Wrightii in Keystone/Odessa at the front of someones property. Definitely a cultivated one.

[Frond-friend42]

Here's a stand of it...on Kauai. "Dad, pay attention to me! Stop taking pictures of plants!"

[Jimbean]

These spines are clearly Acoelorraphe wrightii

 

Edited August 23, 2020 by Jimbean

[RedRabbit]

1 hour ago, Jimbean said:

These spines are clearly Acoelorraphe wrightii

 

That’s a good point, I’ll try going back in a few weeks to take another look.
 

I’ll also check to see if there are any invasive species present like Phoenix reclinata. I figure if other invasive species  are present it will suggest they’re escapees. If there aren’t any invasive species I’ll assume they’re legitimately native. 

[RedRabbit]

I've visited Lake Dan about 5 times in total now and I've never found an Acoelorraphe wrightii. I've seen most of the park and gone well off the beaten path looking for these palms. If they're there, I sure can't find them. 

[RedRabbit]

Adding to the mystery a bit, I actually did find one a couple miles away at Brooker Creek. 
 

This is near the boardwalk so I’m guessing it was planted, but there’s no sign for it or anything so I’m not sure why they’d bother planting one there.   

[kinzyjr]

7 hours ago, RedRabbit said:

I've visited Lake Dan about 5 times in total now and I've never found an Acoelorraphe wrightii. I've seen most of the park and gone well off the beaten path looking for these palms. If they're there, I sure can't find them. 

Thanks for giving it a good look!

[RedRabbit]

I came across an Acoelorraphe wrightii growing in John Chesnut Park today:

 

As you can see in the second photo, it is growing on the edge of a lagoon about 300ft from the eastern shore of Lake Tarpon. Given it’s right on the edge of the lagoon I don’t think it was planted there and I didn’t see many invasive palms growing in that area so it could be one of the alleged natives.  This is about 10 miles southwest of Lake Dan where the other Acoelorraphe were reported (but I never found.) Here are a couple maps showing exactly where the palm is located:

There may be others in the area, but I didn’t see any more. For any locals, it’s a beautiful park well worth visiting.

 

[NickJames]

I want some for my yard 

[Jimbean]

So we have found a couple of specimens in that area.  I'm almost certain that these are escapees from cultivation, but it appears that they are capable of naturalizing on the west coast of Florida. 

[edbrown_III]

I have em growing up here in Jax -- got em naturalized in my drainage pond 

 

[RedRabbit]

I noticed a cluster growing at the edge of the woods in Pasco County today:

 

I looks like another volunteer. Judging by its size it would appear to predate the nearby neighborhood so I’m not sure what it’s doing there.

Edited July 31, 2022 by RedRabbit

[Jimbean]

https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/84609888

 

https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/121224028

 

 

[RedRabbit]

2 hours ago, Jimbean said:

https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/84609888

 

https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/121224028

 

 

My user is floridapalms.

 

 

Edited December 11, 2023 by RedRabbit