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Zone 10 palms in South Texas


Xenon
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On 3/21/2021 at 12:49 PM, RedRabbit said:

Could you give us an update on your garden John? How does everything look now that more time has passed?

Sorry it has taken me so long to get back to you.  I have been under a lit of stress lately.  To answer your question, I think my yard is about 80% to 85% loss.  Not even any signs of growth on my Queen Palms, not even my "Silver" Queen.  I am afraid even my Paurotis Palm is dying, probably not because of the 18F lowest temp we had, but because it was way too dry way too long going into such a hard freeze.   We ended up last year about 7 or 8 inches behind normal for our rainfall, and this year, I think we are over 4 inches behind normal.  I couldn't keep everything watered over the last year like I would like to because our water rates are so high here in Corpus Christi, some of the highest rates in Texas.

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8 hours ago, Mr. Coconut Palm said:

Sorry it has taken me so long to get back to you.  I have been under a lit of stress lately.  To answer your question, I think my yard is about 80% to 85% loss.  Not even any signs of growth on my Queen Palms, not even my "Silver" Queen.  I am afraid even my Paurotis Palm is dying, probably not because of the 18F lowest temp we had, but because it was way too dry way too long going into such a hard freeze.   We ended up last year about 7 or 8 inches behind normal for our rainfall, and this year, I think we are over 4 inches behind normal.  I couldn't keep everything watered over the last year like I would like to because our water rates are so high here in Corpus Christi, some of the highest rates in Texas.

Wow, very sorry for all your losses. 80-85% is a very big deal. :(  Whenever you’re up to it, I’m sure we’d all love to know what DID make it through that freeze.

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On 2/20/2021 at 4:04 PM, Mr. Coconut Palm said:

Yeah, that's what I am worried about.  I actually got down to 18F, but the Brownsville/South Padre area of the the RGV, got down into the low 20'sF.

This is incredible (in a horrifying way). I'm maybe 800 miles north of you and our record low from over 100 years ago is 18°. Wow. These cold fronts are insane in how far south they can bring these frigid temperatures. I'm hoping you have some surprise survivors when it's all said and done. Especially your coconuts.

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18 minutes ago, NorCalKing said:

This is incredible (in a horrifying way). I'm maybe 800 miles north of you and our record low from over 100 years ago is 18°. Wow. These cold fronts are insane in how far south they can bring these frigid temperatures. I'm hoping you have some surprise survivors when it's all said and done. Especially your coconuts.

I think the only reason we don’t get nailed worse in NorCal is simply because we directly interface with the Pacific. That, and we’re far enough west of the Arctic that the fronts just don’t reach us as the jet stream moves west to east. Crossing my fingers we never see this in our lifetimes. According to the USDA, due to climate change a lot of NorCal will be a 10a zone by 2050.

https://www.climatehubs.usda.gov/sites/default/files/Cold Hardiness Ag FS _ 120620.pdf

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Experimental Grower,

Much of Northern CA is already 10a, particularly along the coast and in the Bay Area. My area is 10a and most winters in the last 10 years have been 10b. That’s MUCH different than a Florida 10a or 10b of course. 

Edited by Jim in Los Altos
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Jim in Los Altos, CA  SF Bay Area 37.34N- 122.13W- 190' above sea level

zone 10a/9b

sunset zone 16

300+ palms, 90+ species in the ground

Las Palmas Design

Facebook Page

Las Palmas Design & Associates

Elegant Homes and Gardens

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1 hour ago, Jim in Los Altos said:

Experimental Grower,

Much of Northern CA is already 10a, particularly along the coast and in the Bay Area. My area is 10a and most winters in the last 10 years have been 10b. That’s MUCH different than a Florida 10a or 10b of course. 

Yup, that’s true. Unfortunately I can’t claim that for my location. If what the USDA says is true then every location in the Bay Area and many more areas in Northern California including Sacramento and beyond will be officially 10a in 30 years. I’m ready.

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On 4/10/2021 at 11:26 AM, Jim in Los Altos said:

Much of Northern CA is already 10a, particularly along the coast and in the Bay Area.

I sure hope Livermore gets to a cool 10a someday. I know most years I still get a handful of days in the 27° 28° most winters. Although, my Archies have survived without issue and have been rockets even here in 9B.

Edited by NorCalKing
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5 hours ago, NorCalKing said:

I sure hope Livermore gets to a cool 10a someday. I know most years I still get a handful of days in the 27° 28° most winters. Although, my Archies have survived without issue and have been rockets even here in 9B.

We’ve been fortunate to have had a string of 10b winters. The last time the tempurature went to freezing here was fourteen years ago. Summers have been mild for the most part with almost no A/C use too. I’m getting really used to this! 

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Jim in Los Altos, CA  SF Bay Area 37.34N- 122.13W- 190' above sea level

zone 10a/9b

sunset zone 16

300+ palms, 90+ species in the ground

Las Palmas Design

Facebook Page

Las Palmas Design & Associates

Elegant Homes and Gardens

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5 hours ago, NorCalKing said:

I sure hope Livermore gets to a cool 10a someday. I know most years I still get a handful of days in the 27° 28° most winters. Although, my Archies have survived without issue and have been rockets even here in 9B.

Do your Kings show any burn damage at those temps?

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43 minutes ago, ExperimentalGrower said:

Do your Kings show any burn damage at those temps?

Very, very,  minor. If any, most years.

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On 4/9/2021 at 6:33 PM, ExperimentalGrower said:

Wow, very sorry for all your losses. 80-85% is a very big deal. :(  Whenever you’re up to it, I’m sure we’d all love to know what DID make it through that freeze.

Thanks for the condolences.  Well, I just noticed this evening that one little trunk of my Clustering Fishtail Palm has made it.  It was unprotected, except for the larger trunks and leaves around it.  It is the only one of my more tropical palms that is showing any signs of life yet.  My Silver Date Palm (Phoenix sylvestris) started growing again about 3 or 4 weeks ago, and is growing fast.  No signs of any growth yet from my two large in ground Queen Palms (not even from the Silver Queen that is supposedly more cold hardy, but it did hold onto some green on the crown longer than my standard queen did).  My Livistona saribus is growing again, but the newest leaves in the middle of the crown of my Ribbon Palm are brown and collapsed, even though much of the crown is still green.  I am afraid I cut my King Palm too low on the crown shaft, so it may not survive, even though I wrapped it good with sheets before the freeze.  I am afraid my 3 in ground Coconut Palms are toast, even though I wrapped them and watered them before the freeze, and I am afraid my Florida Royal Palm, Puerto Rican Rpyal, and Foxtail Palm are toast too, even though I wrapped them.  As far as my other trees and plants, my Hong Kong Orchid Tree is coming back from the base of the trunk, as well as my Florida Strangler Fig.  Hibiscus and Bougainvillea are also coming back from the roots/base of the trunks.  No sign of any new growth yet from my big Sea Grape.

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Seagrapes have come back from the base of the plant before here in the 1980s when we had severe freezes, so don't dig up yet.  Good luck.

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Lou St. Aug, FL

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There are a number of quite large sea grapes in Corpus including the one in Mr. Coconut Palm's front yard.  I would be very surprised and disappointed if they didn't come back from the base.

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Corpus Christi, TX, near salt water, zone 9b/10a! Except when it isn't and everything gets nuked back to the stone age of zone 8.

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On 4/9/2021 at 9:46 AM, Mr. Coconut Palm said:

Sorry it has taken me so long to get back to you.  I have been under a lit of stress lately.  To answer your question, I think my yard is about 80% to 85% loss.  Not even any signs of growth on my Queen Palms, not even my "Silver" Queen.  I am afraid even my Paurotis Palm is dying, probably not because of the 18F lowest temp we had, but because it was way too dry way too long going into such a hard freeze.   We ended up last year about 7 or 8 inches behind normal for our rainfall, and this year, I think we are over 4 inches behind normal.  I couldn't keep everything watered over the last year like I would like to because our water rates are so high here in Corpus Christi, some of the highest rates in Texas.

John are you ever up this way anymore? I have a few extra palms I will never plant that if you want you can have. They may need another year to recover. Even my garage got down to the upper 10s, without power. It was devastating for me. Send me a PM. Hope you get some rain today.

Are Bismarck’s alive? What percentage of Queens are dead? Are you seeing dead Robustas too? 

Ryan

 

779ED588-0E9E-4FFB-9DE3-37D5150391B4.jpeg

Edited by Collectorpalms

30 Year Zone Average 20F. Ryan: Contact 979.204.4161 Collectorpalms@gmail.com

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On 4/17/2021 at 10:27 AM, Collectorpalms said:

John are you ever up this way anymore? I have a few extra palms I will never plant that if you want you can have. They may need another year to recover. Even my garage got down to the upper 10s, without power. It was devastating for me. Send me a PM. Hope you get some rain today.

Are Bismarck’s alive? What percentage of Queens are dead? Are you seeing dead Robustas too? 

Ryan

 

779ED588-0E9E-4FFB-9DE3-37D5150391B4.jpeg

Hey Ryan,

Actually, I do occasionally get back up that way.  I am planning to be up there the weekend of May 1st.   Thanks for the offer.  I will send you a message.  Sorry you lost so much.  My yard is devastated.  It got down to 18F in my yard.  I tried to wrap my 3 in ground Coconut Palms, 2 in ground Royal Palms, in ground King Palm, in ground Foxtail, and in ground Bottle Palm, but it wasn't enough.  I think that if my yard had only gotten down to 22F to 24F, that maybe some of them would have survived with the blankets and sheets I wrapped around them, but getting down to 18F was just too much for them.  There were some really big Cuban Royals about 40ft. tall in overall height here that were seeding that were lost.  The only more cold sensitive tropical palms I had that are showing any signs of new growth are two little trunks of my Clustering Fishtail Palm that are each putting out new leaves.  The palm was about 11 to 12ft. tall in overall height before the Big Freeze.

I haven't seen any signs of new growth at all on any Bismarcks (there were some BIG ones here), nor on any of the Queen Palms, not even the Silver Queen I got from you years ago (though the internal part of the crown held green color for a while longer than my other Queen Palm that rapidly turned brown with a collapsing canopy.  There is only one Pygmy Date Palm that I drove by the other day that may be trying to put out some new growth, but I couldn't tell for sure from the street.  I need to stop and actually walk over to it to see for sure.  As far as robustas, there are a pretty good number of them on the east side of town that have started putting out new growth, and most of the filibustas are putting out a lot of new growth.

John

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I just watched a video about Corpus Christi and it appears that there are at least some dead Robusta all the way to the coast in Corpus.  Collapsed crowns everywhere.  Of course that is just what they showed on this video, maybe others are in better shape.

Downtown palm tree trimming expected to last through end of month; 1,400+ trees to be trimmed (kristv.com)

Edited by NBTX11
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9 hours ago, NBTX11 said:

I just watched a video about Corpus Christi and it appears that there are at least some dead Robusta all the way to the coast in Corpus.  Collapsed crowns everywhere.  Of course that is just what they showed on this video, maybe others are in better shape.

Downtown palm tree trimming expected to last through end of month; 1,400+ trees to be trimmed (kristv.com)

I saw this video on my own yesterday and wanted to puke, those guys are cutting off the green new growth along with the dead stuff aaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!  Why would they cut the healthy tissue off? Even a novice can't possibly think that's a good idea....or so I thought.  Those palms need that new photosynthetic tissue now more than ever.  It's a good thing Washy's are nearly invincible and will probably survive anyway, it just pains my soul to watch.

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Corpus Christi, TX, near salt water, zone 9b/10a! Except when it isn't and everything gets nuked back to the stone age of zone 8.

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  • 1 year later...

Wow. I came from the polar vortex 2022 thread. So sad. The Lower Rio Grande Valley looked quite lush and beautiful with all that tropical foliage, despite the near semi-arid climate. These winter freezes the past two years are a problem.

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On 2/16/2021 at 12:37 PM, Xenon said:

I am beyond sad

Repost of what I believe was the tallest TX coconut, west Brownsville. Notice the roof line at the lower left

Gut wrenching. Hoping for better luck and recovery the next few years.

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On 4/16/2021 at 4:33 PM, Lou-StAugFL said:

Seagrapes have come back from the base of the plant before here in the 1980s when we had severe freezes, so don't dig up yet.  Good luck.

It grew back almost to its original size in just a year and a half, and even started flowering again with a few fruits!!!  I thought it would take at least 2 to 3 years of recovery for it to be able to flower and fruit again.  Hong Kong Orchid Tree also grew back about 70 % of its size in the same time, and even started flowering again, also a big surprise so soon!!!  But both got NUKED again with this last BAD FREEZE this past weekend, down to 23F in my yard, and 3 freezes over 4 days of cold!!!

John

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On 4/21/2021 at 7:38 AM, Xerarch said:

I saw this video on my own yesterday and wanted to puke, those guys are cutting off the green new growth along with the dead stuff aaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!  Why would they cut the healthy tissue off? Even a novice can't possibly think that's a good idea....or so I thought.  Those palms need that new photosynthetic tissue now more than ever.  It's a good thing Washy's are nearly invincible and will probably survive anyway, it just pains my soul to watch.

There are SOOO MANY Freaking IDIOT MORONS in the Tree "Trimming" Business, especially in the Palm "Trimming" side of it!!!  I think by law, it should be a STRICT government requirement that anyone with a Tree "Trimming" business, be an actual Arborist!!!

John

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Just now, Mr. Coconut Palm said:

There are SOOO MANY Freaking IDIOT MORONS in the Tree "Trimming" Business, especially in the Palm "Trimming" side of it!!!  I think by law, it should be a STRICT government requirement that anyone with a Tree "Trimming" business, be an actual Arborist!!!

John

The government IS SOOO DAMN STRICT on people like me selling a few plants each year,  requiring me to have a very expensive annual nursery license just to sell a few plants, they SHOULD BE STRICT on something that really matters like Tree "Trimming"!!!

John

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38 minutes ago, __nevii said:

Wow. I came from the polar vortex 2022 thread. So sad. The Lower Rio Grande Valley looked quite lush and beautiful with all that tropical foliage, despite the near semi-arid climate. These winter freezes the past two years are a problem.

Yeah, they are!!!  And to occur so far south, unlike most of the rest of the world at such southern latitudes!!!

John

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1 hour ago, __nevii said:

Wow. I came from the polar vortex 2022 thread. So sad. The Lower Rio Grande Valley looked quite lush and beautiful with all that tropical foliage, despite the near semi-arid climate. These winter freezes the past two years are a problem.

The area actually looks farely ok relative to the rest of the state. The only things gone are the coconuts. Lots of royals and foxtails left and the woody tropical stuff recovers fast. From what I've been told, the past few days did not heavily damage (or in many cases, not much at all) most tropical stuff.  The winds kept frost off and clouds kept the temperature from dropping too low. The winter before was not bad either

Edited by Xenon
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Jonathan

Katy, TX (Zone 9a)

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I believe Richard Travis’s detailed summaries of RGV freeze history show that these events are approximately once every hundred years. 2021 was nowhere near the intensity of 1899. 2022 was a freak and relatively short event.

I certainly hope that palm and tropical vegetation growers continue throughout Texas and with particularity, the RGV. The only difference between Florida and Texas is the fact that we are a peninsula.

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What you look for is what is looking

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10 hours ago, Mr. Coconut Palm said:

There are SOOO MANY Freaking IDIOT MORONS in the Tree "Trimming" Business, especially in the Palm "Trimming" side of it!!!  I think by law, it should be a STRICT government requirement that anyone with a Tree "Trimming" business, be an actual Arborist!!!

John

On North Padre the "professional palm trimmers" and, sadly most of their customers, consider trimming for a Washingtonia to be an "eleven to one" cut.  One of the commercial cutters who advertises a "trained staff" and is among the most egregious practitioners is this has been voted a neighborhood favorite.    I have never seen a trimmer here sterilize their equipment between trimmings.

Edited by WisTex
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4 hours ago, WisTex said:

On North Padre the "professional palm trimmers" and, sadly most of their customers, consider trimming for a Washingtonia to be an "eleven to one" cut.  One of the commercial cutters who advertises a "trained staff" and is among the most egregious practitioners is this has been voted a neighborhood favorite.    I have never seen a trimmer here sterilize their equipment between trimmings.

Sad, very sad!!!  I have hear that the POA out there ACTUALLY REQUIRES homeowners to have their palms trimmed (BUTCHERED).  Is that correct?  

John

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14 minutes ago, Mr. Coconut Palm said:

Sad, very sad!!!  I have hear that the POA out there ACTUALLY REQUIRES homeowners to have their palms trimmed (BUTCHERED).  Is that correct?  

John

A few years back they did, not anymore.  Even when they did, they were advocating not cutting green fronds.  It's trimmers, many of them door knockers with a ladder and a chain saw, that do the cutting with property owners thinking that they are getting a good job because it's a "professional" hurricane cut.

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23 hours ago, Mr. Coconut Palm said:

There are SOOO MANY Freaking IDIOT MORONS in the Tree "Trimming" Business, especially in the Palm "Trimming" side of it!!!  I think by law, it should be a STRICT government requirement that anyone with a Tree "Trimming" business, be an actual Arborist!!!

John

I always suspected something fishy about those businesses. No surprise, as they are in it to make the buck.

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22 hours ago, Xenon said:

The area actually looks farely ok relative to the rest of the state. The only things gone are the coconuts. Lots of royals and foxtails left and the woody tropical stuff recovers fast. From what I've been told, the past few days did not heavily damage (or in many cases, not much at all) most tropical stuff.  The winds kept frost off and clouds kept the temperature from dropping too low. The winter before was not bad either

Good to hear. The area has been seeing some surge in development thanks to recent activities from SpaceX — going to have to see where that goes.

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23 minutes ago, __nevii said:

Good to hear. The area has been seeing some surge in development thanks to recent activities from SpaceX — going to have to see where that goes.

Space X and Elon Musk ARE HORRIBLE AND HAVE RUINED THE ENVIRONMENTALLY SENSTIVE RIO GRANDE DELTA with all their crap going on there, and restricted to public access to the area, for those of us who loved collecting coconuts there that wash up from the Mexican coastline, and who love to see the Red Mangroves there, and the other tropical and subtropical wildlife there.

John

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