Jump to content

Make your own zone map!


ruskinPalms
 Share

Recommended Posts

51 minutes ago, 80s Kid said:

Well put and thanks for the recommendation. I used to visit Longwood Gardens in PA often and would highly recommend that place to anyone if you happen to be near the area. 

Decades ago when Phoenix was much smaller it was definitely cooler but things have changed a lot. I'm not sure what bougainvillea is typically hardy to but can say it's everywhere around here. I have family around St. Augustine, FL and know on at least one or two occasions that bougainvillea vines/shrubs have been hit hard by cold snaps in that area (Zone 9b). 

I'm in a pretty low area although there's a wash nearby that seems to suck all of the coldest air into it. I can literally walk a few hundred feet down the road and you feel a wall of cooler air as you get near the wash. 

Basically I'm wondering if a Cocos Nucifera (sp?) can be grown here if adequate moisture and humidity are provided. People grow huge citrus trees all over. I have a hibiscus that was out all winter with zero issues except that it got too big so I planted it in the ground this spring. It's doing well in the intense summer heat (it's around 115 right now) as long as I give it plenty of water.

I like a challenge but it's a pain trying to get out of state plants into AZ. In PA (Zone 7a/b) I had 2 Windmill Palms (photo) growing that made it through 2 winters and a Takil Palm for probably 5 winters (although it would sometimes defoliate but start growing again in the spring).

 

PXL_20210715_222942167.jpg

Most common Bougainvillea here is  " Barbra Karst " ..The Pink/ Magenta ones you see planted along all the highways.  Have seen plenty of others though.. Orange or Brick Red- colored ones are likely  " Flame ",  Yellow may be  " California Gold ".  They definitely can get nipped in our cooler winters, but bounce back with just a week long stretch of 75+ deg days..

That said, my personal favorite is " Torch Glow " .. a thorn-less, and shrubbier cultivar that can look spectacular when grown well..  Very easy, never gets too big/ looks more refined compared to standard Bougainvillea, and tolerates quite a bit of cold ( Used often in many landscapes out by Queen Creek / around here, to a somewhat lesser extent )

As far as Coconuts, if you surf through the main, Palm- centric area of the forum, someone local managed to find one in a neighborhood in Mesa.. Might be in the " Local AZ. Thread " thread..  Pretty sure if you're in the right spot in town, and can get one through the first few summers/ keep it watered and fed, Coconuts are definitely possible here.  @aztropic is a great person to talk with concerning other, more unique palms that can also be grown here, particularly really neat stuff from the Caribbean..  @Tom in Tucson and @Rod are other great sources of experience w/ various palms and how they handle our unique climate..

As far as other stuff, As long as you're in 9b, your " list " of plant possibilities if pretty wide open, depending on how much space you have to lay with, your yard and neighborhood - sized micro climates, etc of course.  The creator/ Moderator of a well known cactus and succulent- oriented forum lives up there in Fountain Hills and is growing some pretty neat stuff in his yard.

One big plus of living up that way is, since Fountain Hills sits just within the " Foothills " zone, you can get a bit more rain this time of year, and, because there's more open desert around,  overnight heat can be a little less intense ( say cooling off to 82F while Phoenix bottoms out at 90 or 91.. ) That's another weather- related factor that can stress out plants here.  

Access to stuff can definitely be a challenge here.. Very rare that the better known nurseries in/ around Phoenix will offer much in the way of " exotics " ( Never buy from Moon Valley ) 

That said, there are some great backyard growers to pull all sorts of things from.. I also go to Tucson to access stuff that is near impossible  ..but shouldn't be so hard to find.. up here. 

If looking to start with bigger- sized specimens of  X palm/ other plants that might not be available locally,  some folks here will make trips to San Diego. Some great growers out there as well ( several on the forum also ) 


 

  • Like 2
  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, kinzyjr said:

@RedRabbit + @Jimbean + @JLM + @D. Morrowii

Give this version a look over: https://tinyurl.com/35ud2aap

Still looks pretty good for my area, nice work man!

  • Like 1

Palms - 3 S. romanzoffiana, 2 W. bifurcata, 7 W. robusta, 3 R. rivularis, 1 B. odorata, 1 B. nobilis, 2 P. roebelenii, 2 S. palmetto, 1 H. lagenicaulis, 1 A. merillii, 3 P. sylvestris

Link to comment
Share on other sites

https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=1GZIwaJEk1uwA0fqLw2DWA9LIWsUvq6Q&ll=28.25946561180503%2C-81.67992921875874&z=9

 

I drew this real quick.  I'm getting ready to go to bed. 

My impression of downtown Tampa as it relates to my map is 9B1/9B2 and downtown Lakeland as 9B1.  These are not based on average minimums but based on what grows there long term from observations. 

 

I have the metro Orlando shaded as 9B2, and the lighter grey as 9B1

Edited by Jimbean

Brevard County, Fl

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Jimbean said:

https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=1GZIwaJEk1uwA0fqLw2DWA9LIWsUvq6Q&ll=28.25946561180503%2C-81.67992921875874&z=9

 

I drew this real quick.  I'm getting ready to go to bed. 

My impression of downtown Tampa as it relates to my map is 9B1/9B2 and downtown Lakeland as 9B1.  These are not based on average minimums but based on what grows there long term from observations. 

 

I have the metro Orlando shaded as 9B2, and the lighter grey as 9B1

For Downtown Tampa, south of Kennedy Blvd is legit 10a and has a very strong heat island. I remember leaving hockey games in the winter and it would be 70 there and 55 at my old home in Carrollwood… North of Kennedy that heat island weakens very quickly and north of 275 or I-4 is going to be nearly all 9b.

Sadly not much interesting has been planted in the warm part of downtown.

 

4 hours ago, kinzyjr said:

@RedRabbit + @Jimbean + @JLM + @D. Morrowii

Give this version a look over: https://tinyurl.com/35ud2aap

Good job, it looks approximately correct. 

You’ve seen my map of the Tampa Bay area so you know I’d draw things a little differently. St. Pete looks overrated as is North Port / Englewood. Coastal Dunedin and Downtown Bradenton look underrated. As a whole though, it’s really pretty close!

Edited by RedRabbit
  • Like 1

Westchase | 9b,  St. Petersburg | 9b,  Laurel | 10a

Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 hours ago, Jimbean said:

https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=1GZIwaJEk1uwA0fqLw2DWA9LIWsUvq6Q&ll=28.25946561180503%2C-81.67992921875874&z=9

I drew this real quick.  I'm getting ready to go to bed. 

My impression of downtown Tampa as it relates to my map is 9B1/9B2 and downtown Lakeland as 9B1.  These are not based on average minimums but based on what grows there long term from observations. 

I have the metro Orlando shaded as 9B2, and the lighter grey as 9B1

I sent you an access request for the map.  Interested in checking it out. 

20 hours ago, RedRabbit said:

For Downtown Tampa, south of Kennedy Blvd is legit 10a and has a very strong heat island. I remember leaving hockey games in the winter and it would be 70 there and 55 at my old home in Carrollwood… North of Kennedy that heat island weakens very quickly and north of 275 or I-4 is going to be nearly all 9b.

Sadly not much interesting has been planted in the warm part of downtown.

To support the statement by @RedRabbit:

While Orlando has a wonderful microclimate for a location above 28 degrees North in Florida, I've worked in Westshore and downtown many a night and I'd give that area an edge over the Orlando UHI as it has its own heat island plus it is water-modified.  Even if the edge in absolute lows isn't a whole lot, the lows every other night of the year are milder due to a combination of latitude and the bay.  From the data:

KTPA has a slight edge in zone over KORL in all but the 50-year range:

image.thumb.png.5fd0453472249a114c9490ca2dab9eb5.png

Just as important, the average lows below certain thresholds favor KTPA:

image.thumb.png.35f12fa57c3a2011c81c1420b0dac25a.png

Adjusted for the number of Row Years, these are the yearly averages:

image.png.8dae3066ff40eefdaf51740a4455b6e5.png

Likewise, I did some work for Tampa Honda near Carrolwood a few years back during the winter.  When I got off the Fowler exit on I-75 it was already 3 degrees cooler than here in Lakeland.  When I got to the dealership, it was 5 degrees cooler.  This is anecdotal, but it does demonstrate the point that Tampa above I-4 is different than below I-4.

20 hours ago, RedRabbit said:

Good job, it looks approximately correct. 

You’ve seen my map of the Tampa Bay area so you know I’d draw things a little differently. St. Pete looks overrated as is North Port / Englewood. Coastal Dunedin and Downtown Bradenton look underrated. As a whole though, it’s really pretty close!

It couldn't hurt to look at your map and make the adjustments, especially in the areas you mentioned.  Looking at Dunedin in particular, it should probably be at least another notch higher west of US-19.

12 hours ago, D. Morrowii said:

Looks great! Easy to see everything I hope its accurate for my sake anyway. 

Palm gardening in Florida is like going to a casino.  You know you're going to walk out broke and depressed, but it's a good ride while it lasts.

 

@Merlyn How does this map look for your neck of the woods?  https://tinyurl.com/35ud2aap

  • Like 1

Lakeland, FL

USDA Zone (2012): 9b | Sunset Zone: 26 | Record Low: 20F/-6.67C (1985, 1962) | Record Low USDA Zone: 9a | 30-Year Avg. Low: 30F | 30-year Min: 24F

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, kinzyjr said:

I sent you an access request for the map.  Interested in checking it out.

Sure I'll check out something you send.  I haven't gotten anything yet and I don't know what you mean by access request.

Okay nevermind I saw the request in my email. 

 

and I just realized that I have it set on needing an access request. 

Edited by Jimbean
  • Upvote 1

Brevard County, Fl

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, Jimbean said:

Sure I'll check out something you send.  I haven't gotten anything yet and I don't know what you mean by access request.

When I enter the URL you posted, I get this screen:

image.thumb.png.a563f1b447a2c5acd7f7daf67afdc284.png

 

I typed a short message and clicked Request access and got this:

image.thumb.png.061fca7d703009fa8e340975c380a9d1.png

You might have to do this inside of your map:

  1. Log in to your Google/GMail account and access your map
  2. Once you are viewing your map, click Shareimage.png.40f35f4bf2bb57744796f97df9f9c32c.png
  3. Set the option for Anyone with this link can view.
  4. Copy the URL in the textbox.
  5. Click Share on Drive:

image.png.6aa2cb44cd4534ce91476641df13cfb7.png

Post the link in the Share map dialog here and it should let everyone access it.

UPDATE: Just got the access approval in my GMail.

  • Upvote 1

Lakeland, FL

USDA Zone (2012): 9b | Sunset Zone: 26 | Record Low: 20F/-6.67C (1985, 1962) | Record Low USDA Zone: 9a | 30-Year Avg. Low: 30F | 30-year Min: 24F

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here's a photo of the map.  I did this in a few minutes but it is the areas that I am confident in. 

Untitled.png

Brevard County, Fl

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'd like to merge all of these threads on this forum.

Regarding all of these maps, to be honest I don't like any of them.  If I didn't have a business to manage and run then I would like to do a more detailed comparison of the state. 

Brevard County, Fl

Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 minutes ago, Jimbean said:

I'd like to merge all of these threads on this forum.  Regarding all of these maps, to be honest I don't like any of them.  If I didn't have a business to manage and run then I would like to do a more detailed comparison of the state.

25 minutes ago, Jimbean said:

Here's a photo of the map.  I did this in a few minutes but it is the areas that I am confident in.

Thank you!  I checked it out.  You have the lines drawn so that helps.

I actually saved all of those maps on my HDD in a folder.  My more finely split zoning system was inspired by the third map.

We could always go with the record low zone map.  That should be a very conservative map. :innocent:

I just added an extra layer with the record low zones to my NOAA map if anyone is interested.  There are no areas blocked off and color coded yet though.

  • Like 1

Lakeland, FL

USDA Zone (2012): 9b | Sunset Zone: 26 | Record Low: 20F/-6.67C (1985, 1962) | Record Low USDA Zone: 9a | 30-Year Avg. Low: 30F | 30-year Min: 24F

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 hours ago, kinzyjr said:

Thank you!  I checked it out.  You have the lines drawn so that helps.

I actually saved all of those maps on my HDD in a folder.  My more finely split zoning system was inspired by the third map.

We could always go with the record low zone map.  That should be a very conservative map. :innocent:

I just added an extra layer with the record low zones to my NOAA map if anyone is interested.  There are no areas blocked off and color coded yet though.

In the end the more complete the data the more information folks will have to make decisions on what and where to plant. Its pretty specialized information after all not to mention constantly changing.
I use a GIS program called Global Mapper for viewing and creating maps to use for fishing. It would be awesome to drop in locations for plants of interest with known or estimated ages and combine all the weather specifics on to a single map that you could turn various layers on and off. I’ve been recording all my weather station data in .csv but thats only a year so far. I’d be glad to share it although I guess it’s available on WU and Ambient anyway. GM can even draw its own contours based on a data set so I imagine with enough data sources it could draw a very detailed line for temps. Closed lines can easily be turned into areas. Anyways, fun and interesting projects you guys are working on. I do appreciate the info and hard work and I plan to help and or contribute when I can.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, D. Morrowii said:

In the end the more complete the data the more information folks will have to make decisions on what and where to plant. Its pretty specialized information after all not to mention constantly changing.
I use a GIS program called Global Mapper for viewing and creating maps to use for fishing. It would be awesome to drop in locations for plants of interest with known or estimated ages and combine all the weather specifics on to a single map that you could turn various layers on and off. I’ve been recording all my weather station data in .csv but thats only a year so far. I’d be glad to share it although I guess it’s available on WU and Ambient anyway. GM can even draw its own contours based on a data set so I imagine with enough data sources it could draw a very detailed line for temps. Closed lines can easily be turned into areas. Anyways, fun and interesting projects you guys are working on. I do appreciate the info and hard work and I plan to help and or contribute when I can.

Your offer to assist is much appreciated.  If you have the data in CSV format, that will make it very easy to use. 

The additional LAKELAND_## stations that were plotted on the maps are a good example of what you can do when enough data is available on WU.  They were created using the Lakeland Airport NOAA data and superseding the low temperature at the airport with the temperature from the local WU station.

The one issue that tends to pop up with WU is that you'll have two stations very close by each other reporting wildly different temperatures.  At that point, all you can really do is test for reasonableness.  On the flip side, WU has helped us spot NOAA numbers that were unreasonable.  The Tarpon Springs Water Plant posted a 24F mark while all of the other stations in the area were well into the 30s. 

Your particular station seems very consistent from the reporting I've seen.  It would be neat to combine the temperature data with something like iNaturalist and/or the locations of specific palms from each of the Tampa, Orlando, Jacksonville threads to name a few. 

  • Like 2

Lakeland, FL

USDA Zone (2012): 9b | Sunset Zone: 26 | Record Low: 20F/-6.67C (1985, 1962) | Record Low USDA Zone: 9a | 30-Year Avg. Low: 30F | 30-year Min: 24F

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...
On 12/13/2021 at 7:46 PM, JJPalmer said:

59th anniversary of the great freeze of 1962. Pretty ‘cool’ graphics showing the lowest recorded temps during the period. Pahokee stands out.

91BF4A90-EB44-4C07-98F5-187A270F0140.jpeg

719EE2B4-CB2F-4E20-873A-CF3BAD6B04B1.png

I've noticed 20-year cycles in the southeast. A good long run then 2 bad winters. Early 60's like this map, then 82-83 & 84-85 again.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It depends alot on proximity to water. I've seen Sea Grape near the sponge docks at Tarpon Spr.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...