Make your own zone map!

[ruskinPalms]

Hi all, I have seen several growing zone maps from all these different sources over the years and yet, none has felt right for my area. Most recently, there was a map posted over on the CFPACS board that really blew it for the Tampa Bay area. So, I decided to make my own zone map! No, it is not based upon any kind of hard data only empirical evidence of what is seen growing in the Bay area and a little bit of "gut feeling". I think this could be a fun project for many people to try to do if they want to make a very localized zone map outlining suspected and known micro climates - hot and cold. It would be cool to dedicate a sub forum, not unlike the freeze forum to custom maps made by palmophiles for palmophiles. These maps would only be for fun as most of us really don't know for sure about climatology. Yet, many people have lived in an area for many years and may indeed know an area's climate inside and out. Forget the USDA, forget the Audubon Society. I challenge all of you to make a zone map of your area - be it as small as a few square miles to as large as a continent if you have the time and knowledge! This is the Tampa Bay Area Zone Map Version 1.0  - Please send comments, know errors and your own "gut feelings" to me in this thread for ways to better this map and make it more accurate. This version is only a best guess. I think we could use Orlando Area, San Diego Area, LA area and San Francisco Area Maps too in the very least. It is easy (well, fairly easy) to make a map like this by "borrowing" a map from mapquest and then putting it into microsoft Paint. From there, you just need to outline your zones then use the fill in feature to fill in the colors where you want them - can be a little tedious at times but it works without much computer knowledge.  Anyway, here is Version 1.0 - Please send comments.

[SubTropicRay]

Not bad Bill.  I think my area is slightly warmer than Carrollwood but why split hairs.

Ray

[spockvr6]

Great map Bill!

My only comments would be----and assuming we are talking about temps over that past decade or so......

I think the 10b area north of the Anclote River (southwest of "Beacon Square") is probably a bit liberal.  And, I think the 10a line switches to more like 9b north of Tarpon, maybe just a bit past Holiday.

And, alot of the area south of SR54 is probably closer to 9b than 9a.  Areas in close proximity to all the lakes in that area are likely borderline 9b/10a

[ruskinPalms]

Hi Guys, thanks for some input on this little project. I thought more people would be interested in developing more localized zone maps for their respective areas. Anyway, Ray, so you think I was a bit too generous with the 10A in the Tampa area? Now that I am thinking about it, anything north of Busch Blvd is probably more 9Bish. Larry, do I need to give more area's credit for being 9B? Should I paint Zephyrhills, land o' lakes and that string of pond south of odessa as 9B? Maybe give plant city and the corridor along I4 9b status? On one map I saw recently, they had the I4 corridor as 10A - way to high in my opinion. I do know the at the undeveloped souteast and northeast corners of hillsborough county along with the adjacent areas in the adjoining counties get colder than a witch's tit. Should more of western pasco county be given 9B status due to heavy development? I feel there are still some very 9A cold pockets in undeveloped parts of the area. Please send me more input and I will revise the map.

[ruskinPalms]

Larry, have you scoped out the area southwest of Beacon square that I have as 10B to see what is growing? I have never been there so this was a best guess - looks to be favorably jutted into the gulf with plenty of warm water to the north. I agree that I may have been a bit optimistic in a lot of areas on this map. The more input from folks in the area, the better.

[happ]

Great map, Bill    

I think it would be too difficult covering all the micro-climates in California.  Sunset broad brushes LA with 5 climate zones  but mapping details would be a really big job

[spockvr6]

(ruskinPalms @ Jun. 28 2007,16:57)

QUOTE

Larry, have you scoped out the area southwest of Beacon square that I have as 10B to see what is growing? .

Yes.....and it doesnt not look like 10b plants!

There are smatterings here and there of more tender plants, but the lions share of Royals, Coconuts, etc are found all south of the Anclote River.

[JeffreyApolloBeach]

This is pretty good.

Once the map is more stable, I think the next step would be to narrow the zones into smaller intervals, i.e. dividing each zone in half to get higher accuaracy of the areas, example 9b can range from 25-30, but we know that 29 is much better than 26.

Also, I remember Larry from Tarpon Springs posted on this forum or on CFPACS a map from the Southwest Water Management District wich is similar to the one ruskinPalms created.  I like the one from ruskinPalms as you can see the physical boundaries much better.

[spockvr6]

(JeffreyApolloBeach @ Jun. 29 2007,09:02)

QUOTE

This is pretty good.

Once the map is more stable, I think the next step would be to narrow the zones into smaller intervals, i.e. dividing each zone in half to get higher accuaracy of the areas, example 9b can range from 25-30, but we know that 29 is much better than 26.

Also, I remember Larry from Tarpon Springs posted on this forum or on CFPACS a map from the Southwest Water Management District wich is similar to the one ruskinPalms created.  I like the one from ruskinPalms as you can see the physical boundaries much better.

Heres that map Jeffrey.

It is very harsh IMO!

[elHoagie]

I made this map of SoCal using ten years of data from NOAA.  It doesn't give the finer details of the microclimates (i.e. hilltops and valley bottoms), but it gives an overall picture.  The "zones" I used in the map correspond to the average daily minimum temperature in January, in celsius.  Here's an approximate conversion from the zones used in my map to USDA zones:

My map zone #            USDA zone #

10                               11a

9, 8                             10b

7, 6                             10a

5, 4                               9b

3                                   9a

SoCal_winter.pdf

[elHoagie]

Here's a picture in the post so you don't need to download the pdf

[osideterry]

Editing myself... I didn't see your personal Zone system and was complaining about being stuck in 7b...

[osideterry]

Another lunch-hour graphic project. Here is San Diego County. I took the US Arboretum map, and then used a water drainage map to make adjustments. It ain't pretty, but the first map shows streets and highways...

[osideterry]

Showing the water drainage explains things a bit.

[happ]

FANTASTIC    Jack & Terry

[SubTropicRay]

I love these detailed maps.

Bill, the 9b might be north of MLK or Hillsborough Ave. if you ask me.  My mom can't grow some of the palms I can and she's just south of Waters.  This is splitting hairs though.  A degree or two won't make a difference in a bad freeze.  The map looks good as it is.

[ruskinPalms]

Jack and Terry, those are great maps of your areas. Still would like to see more from other areas too! Still need San Francisco and Orlando areas in the least. There are a lot of people interested in palming in those metro areas. Larry, Jeffrey and Ray, I am going to make another map and try to include some of the input I have been given. Jeffrey, I might try to break it down into smaller gradations within zones but keep in mind it is still going to be a best guess type of situation. Larry, you won't see 10B in Pasco county in the next version. Ray, Zone 10 is going to be shrinking in the Tampa Metro area. By the way, there is no doubt that I am basing my zone map on all the other maps that I have seen preceding this one, but I am trying to narrow down things a bit more with input from people in the area and think about what creates warmer and colder micro climates in areas like proximty to water, water to the north, urbanization and elevation to a certain extent (not a real big factor in the Tampa area in my opinion though, can be more important along the central FL ridge which is not included on my map) The more input, the better before I make the next version.

[NBTX11]

I think there is too much area shown as zone 9a.  all the recent maps have shown it to be warmer than that.  the Arbor day map shows the I-4 corridor as 10a.  I'm not saying the entire area is 10a, but I don't think it is 9a either.  I think zone 9b should cover a lot more areas.  That is unless your map is based on the time period of 1980-1990.  I bet the long term (30 year +) for most areas is 9b, with occasional 9a freezes.

[Alan_Tampa]

Better make Citrus Park zone 10a.

At least three nuts with good stuff in good shape.  Also, Ray shame on you, Frank T is on Waters,( just south of Bal Harbor:) )

Alan

[ruskinPalms]

OK, here is version 1.1 - Let me know. Unfortunately, photobucket has decided to resize it to a smaller resolution but you can get the idea.

[SubTropicRay]

Alan,

Frank has been pulling off a minor miracle for over 15 years.  I do agree that certain areas of NW Hillsborough are warmer than Bill's original map depicts.  

Bill,

The new map looks better but Alan is right about Citrus Park.

Ray

[JeffreyApolloBeach]

Bill,

The new map looks great.  Having Apollo Beach in the 10A zone is the right call.  On the first map it had the same zone as south and north east St. Petersburg, and althought I wish that was the case, I know better!!!  The stuff that you can see over there you just don't see here.  I've seen crotons that are 10+ feet high, Royals and Travelers that are being caress by the clouds (metaphor here    )...I have not seen this here in Apollo Beach...granted that it might be the age of the town, or that people just don't plant that many tropicals here.   But that's about to change, I already have Carpentaria acuminata, Royal, Archo Alexandrae, Veitchia winn and arecina, and the latest addition, a Dypsis Mayotte.   Lets see if in several years my stuff is still alive and doing well.

Goo job Bill.  Thanks for taking the time to create this.

[BS Man about Palms]

Cool! To everyone!

[happ]

(elHoagie @ Jun. 29 2007,14:43)

QUOTE

Here's a picture in the post so you don't need to download the pdf

Jack

Your 10b is the same color as 10a.  Maybe a pink would be better for 10b  ???

[ruskinPalms]

(Ray, Tampa @ Jun. 30 2007,20:58)

QUOTE

Alan,

Frank has been pulling off a minor miracle for over 15 years.  I do agree that certain areas of NW Hillsborough are warmer than Bill's original map depicts.  

Bill,

The new map looks better but Alan is right about Citrus Park.

Ray

??? Ray, did I still not capture enough of the Citrus Park area in zone 10?

[SubTropicRay]

Sorry, I was looking at the old map.  The new one looks good.

[elHoagie]

(happ @ Jul. 01 2007,09:46)

QUOTE

(elHoagie @ Jun. 29 2007,14:43)

QUOTE

Here's a picture in the post so you don't need to download the pdf

Jack

Your 10b is the same color as 10a.  Maybe a pink would be better for 10b  ???

Yeah, the contrast in colors between some "zones" is not very good.  I made that map a long time ago, and I'm probably not going to edit it at this point...  but if I do make some changes down the line I'll use different colors.

[JMBreland]

This is fascinating. I have been wanting to create such a map for the Mobile Bay area. Now, I am motivated and I shall do it!  :cool:

[gsytch]

Actually, not too bad a map for pinellas/pasco. However, I live N of SR54 in downtown New Port Richey, and my temperatures mimic TIA. Carrolwood is definitely NOT in 10A. Go there after a cold snap and you will see frost damage I do not see. A friend of mine in Trinity has much lower temps than me by 5F easily, and my school I teach at in Hudson near the Hernando line is WAY colder. I've seen frost there in late March. I have never scraped my car of frost here but my trees help - My 30'+ fruiting Mango testifies that there are microclimates everywhere. btw I have a mature Triangle, dypsis decaryi, in my front yard. I had to stand on a ladder today to remove the bottom fronds that were aging. I would estimate it over 30' with a trunk taller than myself by a couple of feet. Greg in New Port Richey - but I still call myself zone 9b because a few times in the past 15 years we've dipped below 30F.......

[SubTropicRay]

I already mentioned in a previous post that anything north of MLK or Hillsborough Ave in Tampa should not be 10a.  Frank Tintera does have a nice tropical garden in NW Tampa.  Maybe the green shaded 10a should be limited to anything west of the Veterans Exwy and south

of Hillsborough Ave.  Or not, it's up to Bill.    

[SubTropicRay]

Dean, this was a duplicate.  Please delete.

[ruskinPalms]

Version 1.2

Changes:

1. Citrus Park leaves zone 10A - not sure how to keep it in 10A unless 10A is way underestimated in Pasco county.

2. Central and north Tampa leave 10A

3. Less 10A near Palm River area

Surprised no one has challenged the 10A areas in Lakeland - any thoughts?

[SunnyFl]

Hey, Ruskin - great job, and thanks for putting Lealman where it belongs (10A).  And quite possibly (hope, hope) someday we shall be 10B, if they get more traffic in and out of St. Pete/Clw Airport - should raise the "heat island" effect in the flightpath

[epicure3]

Guys..............that is awesome info AND talent. I wouldn't knoweven where to begin. But, I'm in the advertising business which should explain a lot.

[ruskinPalms]

Not to get to philosophical, but the Tampa Bay area begins where it really gets interesting on the west side of Florida for palm growing. North of Tampa, except on the extreme west coast, it gets pretty damn cold in the winter.

[SubTropicRay]

Bill,

A good friend of mine in Masyrktown (near Brooksville) will attest to that.

Ray

[Eric in Orlando]

Great Tampa map. That area on the peninsular between the 2 bays is interesting, where McDill AFB is. That seems it is a great microclimate but nothing really interesting is planted there. I have been there several times lately and I din't see anything really tropical planted out, no coconuts, royals, etc. Just big mangroves along the water.

[spockvr6]

(Eric in Orlando @ Jul. 05 2007,09:33)

QUOTE

That area on the peninsular between the 2 bays is interesting, where McDill AFB is. That seems it is a great microclimate but nothing really interesting is planted there. I have been there several times lately and I din't see anything really tropical planted out, no coconuts, royals, etc. Just big mangroves along the water.

Eric-

There are such plantings there, but they arent as widespread and "in your face" as St. Pete.

[Eric in Orlando]

Are there on the AF base itself? I saw some in the neighborhoods outside the base but none on McDill itself.

[SubTropicRay]

Hi Eric,

This is the same area where Dr. Young's home is located.  Aren't his Hyphaene, Borassus and Borassodendron enough?  Just kidding.  Public plantings of Coconuts are not promoted but I can show you some big ones in private yards.  One near Tampa (now Costa Rica) Jeff's old home has over 30 feet of trunk and has set seed many times.  There are also a few very large Royal palms that have been around since the years immediately following the 1989 freeze.  There were actually two huge specimens that predated the 89' freeze.  Both have since been removed for unknown reasons.  The largest was at Hardin's nursery near the MacDill AFB main gate.   It was easily 70 feet tall.   There are also many Royal Poinciana and a few Banyans as mentioned in other posts.  Next time you're over here, give me a call.  You have to know where to look but the tropicals are there to be found.

Ray