Palms of the Myrtle Beach Area

[Jeff985]

On 9/27/2019 at 6:28 AM, DAVEinMB said:

I may try to plan one into the mix for next spring. I guess my first question would be what would be a better starting point as far as size goes? Smaller plants are easier to protect, of course, but is there any benefit from an acclimation standpoint? Or with something like this do you need all the mass you can get right off the bat?

Also, if I'm going to zone push to that extent are there better options? I've debated trying with queens but haven't been able to find any locally. I have a potted robellini and majesty that I've been reluctant to put in the ground but curious at the same time. 

Based on what I’ve seen a bizzie has a chance of surviving. The canopy gets pretty big and will be impossible to protect but you should be able to insulate the bud pretty easily. January 2018 Houston had a hard freeze. Hobby airport recorded a low temperature of 19f. Areas south and east (closer to the water) were slightly warmer, while areas north and west were slightly colder. At that time I was living in one of the colder areas of Houston, (Katy) and every bizzie I know of survived. Even without protection. They were damaged but recovered.  The weather station closest to my house recorded a low temperature of 18f. Probably 2/3 of queens survived. After that event I only have seen one large Pygmy in that area and no Majesties. Inside beltway 8 and areas south and east of it the Queen survival rate was much higher. Only a few didn’t recover, some pygmys also recovered. Inside the loop I-610 and to the south and east of it, closer to the water temps in the low twenties queens, bizzies and pygmys did well. I even know of one Majesty that I’m assuming was there at the time that survived it. It has about 8 feet of trunk. I don’t know of any majesties that died from that freeze because they aren’t very common here. The one mentioned is the only I’ve seen with a trunk since I moved to the Houston area. Based on the temperature averages you mentioned, I think Bismarckia would be a zone push but certainly a possibility. Queens are slightly less hardy and due to their rapid growth would be difficult to protect for long. Roebelenii even less hardy but due to their size not hard to protect, just watch out for spines. Majesty is cheap and easy to find, so why not. 

[DAVEinMB]

On 9/29/2019 at 10:01 AM, Jeff985 said:

Based on what I’ve seen a bizzie has a chance of surviving. The canopy gets pretty big and will be impossible to protect but you should be able to insulate the bud pretty easily. January 2018 Houston had a hard freeze. Hobby airport recorded a low temperature of 19f. Areas south and east (closer to the water) were slightly warmer, while areas north and west were slightly colder. At that time I was living in one of the colder areas of Houston, (Katy) and every bizzie I know of survived. Even without protection. They were damaged but recovered.  The weather station closest to my house recorded a low temperature of 18f. Probably 2/3 of queens survived. After that event I only have seen one large Pygmy in that area and no Majesties. Inside beltway 8 and areas south and east of it the Queen survival rate was much higher. Only a few didn’t recover, some pygmys also recovered. Inside the loop I-610 and to the south and east of it, closer to the water temps in the low twenties queens, bizzies and pygmys did well. I even know of one Majesty that I’m assuming was there at the time that survived it. It has about 8 feet of trunk. I don’t know of any majesties that died from that freeze because they aren’t very common here. The one mentioned is the only I’ve seen with a trunk since I moved to the Houston area. Based on the temperature averages you mentioned, I think Bismarckia would be a zone push but certainly a possibility. Queens are slightly less hardy and due to their rapid growth would be difficult to protect for long. Roebelenii even less hardy but due to their size not hard to protect, just watch out for spines. Majesty is cheap and easy to find, so why not. 

Those 2018 temps and the survival rates of the bizzies and queens gives me some hope that one could survive (with protection) for at least long enough to make the investment worth it. Im not sure what the going price for a 65g bizzy is (I believe that's the container size) but the price tag on the one in the attached picture is $650. 

It's a little late in the season to put anything else in the ground now but this is helping me cook up a plan for the springtime. I'm with you on the majesties, my potted one may be getting a new home next year 

[OC2Texaspalmlvr]

Thats a good looking bizzie , would definitely have to protect it this winter as it would have no time to get its roots down and get comfortable. Nothing like instant gratification =) hope you have a strong back or a tractor for that bad boy haha 

[Xenon]

Not to be a naysayer, but Houston is a totally different environment from Myrtle Beach. Myrtle Beach is 8b while Houston (in general) is a warm 9a. Houston often sees long strings of 9b/10a winters which explains why there are pygmy dates and majesty palms around. The average minimum low for the last 20 years (Hobby Airport) is ~28F, so technically an easy 9b.  Average winter temperatures in Houston are also much warmer; average lows are almost 10 degrees higher than Myrtle Beach.  Houston also stays hotter for longer.  Bizzies like heat. A single dip to 18-19F in a nearly 30 year time span (1990-2019) with only 6/30 years recording a low below 25F is vastly different from consistent lows in the teens year after year. 

[DAVEinMB]

14 hours ago, OC2Texaspalmlvr said:

Thats a good looking bizzie , would definitely have to protect it this winter as it would have no time to get its roots down and get comfortable. Nothing like instant gratification =) hope you have a strong back or a tractor for that bad boy haha 

No no I'm way over my palm budget for this year, haha. If I do decide to try my luck with one come springtime that's 1 of 2 that I've found in the area. Is that what I'd expect to pay for that size?

[DAVEinMB]

3 hours ago, Xenon said:

Not to be a naysayer, but Houston is a totally different environment from Myrtle Beach. Myrtle Beach is 8b while Houston (in general) is a warm 9a. Houston often sees long strings of 9b/10a winters which explains why there are pygmy dates and majesty palms around. The average minimum low for the last 20 years (Hobby Airport) is ~28F, so technically an easy 9b.  Average winter temperatures in Houston are also much warmer; average lows are almost 10 degrees higher than Myrtle Beach.  Houston also stays hotter for longer.  Bizzies like heat. A single dip to 18-19F in a nearly 30 year time span (1990-2019) with only 6/30 years recording a low below 25F is vastly different from consistent lows in the teens year after year. 

Be a naysayer! I joined this site to gain knowledge and insight on things like this. If I'm about to head down a road that is likely impossible I'd rather explore other options. I am trying to zone push with some of my landscaping and understand the risks of losing palms because of that. If I'm biting off more than I can chew I want to hear it. 

[Brad Mondel]

I lived in MB for 8 years and Bismarkia didn't make it through the winter despite being on a warm south facing wall. 

[DAVEinMB]

20 minutes ago, Brad Mondel said:

I lived in MB for 8 years and Bismarkia didn't make it through the winter despite being on a warm south facing wall. 

Brad, did you protect it any? There's a palm tree guy in town who said he's had a queen palm in the ground for 4+ years. Never seen pics or know if he protects it but he said it's on an east facing wall and gets sun early on. 

[Brad Mondel]

No I didn't protect it, but it was established in early spring. I did have a queen live for 2 winters against a wall and a tropical hibiscus. They were sheltered by tall pines also. Livistona chinensis does well even if it defoliates each winter. Trachycarpus do better up here in Greenville than down there. The sandy soil and gumbo seems to kill them in MB. 

[DAVEinMB]

8 hours ago, Brad Mondel said:

No I didn't protect it, but it was established in early spring. I did have a queen live for 2 winters against a wall and a tropical hibiscus. They were sheltered by tall pines also. Livistona chinensis does well even if it defoliates each winter. Trachycarpus do better up here in Greenville than down there. The sandy soil and gumbo seems to kill them in MB. 

Thanks for the insight. Speaking of livistona chinensis, I bought a 15g pot in early spring that had 7 or so planted together in it. It's been in the ground for a couple months but I think I'm going to dig it up, separate the individual plants, and reintroduce them to the yard next spring. @Merlyn2220 just posted some before and after pics of the same thing and it looks aggravating but doable. 

[Brad Mondel]

Yes they dont seem to mind that. 

[DAVEinMB]

I stumbled upon this dactylifera that @Palmobsessed posted a little while back and got a few more shots of it. Not a super exciting palm for many of you but definitely rare for this area. 

[PalmTreeDude]

14 hours ago, DAVEinMB said:

I stumbled upon this dactylifera that @Palmobsessed posted a little while back and got a few more shots of it. Not a super exciting palm for many of you but definitely rare for this area. 

That's in Myrtle Beach? I'm not too surprised, especially if it is close to the ocean, but I am surprised at the height! I've seen some fairly tall Washingtonia robusta along the water though behind hotels. 

[Jcalvin]

On 9/27/2019 at 1:58 PM, RoystoneaJax said:

My first thought is that if you start with a bigger tree and let it have the summer to get established it has a better chance. Queens are 8b hardy right?

I would think queens wouldn’t fair so well with consistent 8b temperatures- not without substantial protection, anyway. Temperatures below 20 degrees would defoliate queens every year. 

 

 

[Zifool]

Nice pics thanks ! Any jubaea or sabal ?

[Laaz]

Bismarkia has 0 chance in Myrtle beach sorry to say.

[DAVEinMB]

8 hours ago, PalmTreeDude said:

That's in Myrtle Beach? I'm not too surprised, especially if it is close to the ocean, but I am surprised at the height! I've seen some fairly tall Washingtonia robusta along the water though behind hotels. 

It's on ocean Blvd in north myrtle, can't remember what ave but I was omw to tropical nursery on 25th coming from main st. I couldn't believe how tall it was either! 25-30' if I had to guess. The property had a number of other palms including some sabals and washingtonia that were just as tall but this Phoenix had my focus 

[DAVEinMB]

7 hours ago, Jcalvin said:

I would think queens wouldn’t fair so well with consistent 8b temperatures- not without substantial protection, anyway. Temperatures below 20 degrees would defoliate queens every year. 

 

 

I'd like to experiment with a queen but I just can't seem to find any. Apparently some of the big box stores carry them infrequently but I haven't had any luck. Nurseries don't want to deal with the hassle because most people aren't trying to zone push and work to keep something alive. 

[DAVEinMB]

4 hours ago, Zifool said:

Nice pics thanks ! Any jubaea or sabal ?

Thanks! I haven't seen any jubaea anywhere around but sabals are super common. My guess would be that the majority in this area are palmetto but I can't readily identify differences amongst species. I'll try to get some more pics highlighting different traits

[DAVEinMB]

47 minutes ago, Laaz said:

Bismarkia has 0 chance in Myrtle beach sorry to say.

Yea, I've ruled this one out. 

[Jcalvin]

12 hours ago, DAVEinMB said:

I'd like to experiment with a queen but I just can't seem to find any. Apparently some of the big box stores carry them infrequently but I haven't had any luck. Nurseries don't want to deal with the hassle because most people aren't trying to zone push and work to keep something alive. 

Might have to drive down to some of the nurseries in Savannah area.

 

I'm not sure of they'd have them in Charleston- maybe Hilton Head??

[Laaz]

All the Lowes & Home Dopots carry them here, but few survive. In MB, not a chance.

[DAVEinMB]

11 hours ago, Jcalvin said:

Might have to drive down to some of the nurseries in Savannah area.

 

I'm not sure of they'd have them in Charleston- maybe Hilton Head??

I haven't been to Savannah in awhile, would be a nice excuse to make a weekend trip 

 

10 hours ago, Laaz said:

All the Lowes & Home Dopots carry them here, but few survive. In MB, not a chance.

Lol you're killing me Todd.

No, I def agree that unprotected its time here would be short.  But @SEVA has shown with a little work you can keep one alive way out of its typical hardiness zone 

[palmbrad]

I've found queens to be pretty easy to keep going in Summerville, SC. Wrap the trunk with Christmas lights and frost cloth. Only turn lights on during the coldest nights. I have 2 queens that defoliated but survived 13.7 and snow in 2018 this way. Didn't bother to protect at all this past winter.

[PalmTreeDude]

On 3/17/2020 at 7:18 AM, DAVEinMB said:

It's on ocean Blvd in north myrtle, can't remember what ave but I was omw to tropical nursery on 25th coming from main st. I couldn't believe how tall it was either! 25-30' if I had to guess. The property had a number of other palms including some sabals and washingtonia that were just as tall but this Phoenix had my focus 

I hope Myrtle Beach gets more Washingtonia (directly along the shore) in the future, they seem to do well there with the exception of less common extreme cold snaps. I remember seeing a few of them when I was super little and thinking, “Why are those ones so tall?” 

[PalmTreeDude]

2 hours ago, palmbrad said:

I've found queens to be pretty easy to keep going in Summerville, SC. Wrap the trunk with Christmas lights and frost cloth. Only turn lights on during the coldest nights. I have 2 queens that defoliated but survived 13.7 and snow in 2018 this way. Didn't bother to protect at all this past winter.

I’ve seen tall queens on Hilton Head Island and a decent sized one in Charleston. They looked good too, at least at the time I’ve seen them. 

Edited March 18, 2020 by PalmTreeDude

[DAVEinMB]

32 minutes ago, PalmTreeDude said:

I hope Myrtle Beach gets more Washingtonia (directly along the shore) in the future, they seem to do well there with the exception of less common extreme cold snaps. I remember seeing a few of them when I was super little and thinking, “Why are those ones so tall?” 

I've been noticing quite a few tall ones lately. Iirc, washies generally grow 3 to 4 foot per year if they're happy which puts the bigger ones at around 10 years in the ground. There's a pretty even split between robusta and filibusta but it seems like you see less filibusta "telephone poles".  If I have time this weekend I'll snap some pics of the more recent ones I've found. 

[DAVEinMB]

@PalmTreeDude Here's a couple pretty big filibusta I came across here recently. 

[DAVEinMB]

Here's some pics from alligator adventure in north myrtle from earlier this month (some non-palm mixed in).

[PalmTreeDude]

6 hours ago, DAVEinMB said:

Here's some pics from alligator adventure in north myrtle from earlier this month (some non-palm mixed in).

Wow! I was there about five years ago and remember those Washingtonia were about 10ft tall, looks like they have grown quite a bit! 

[DAVEinMB]

@PalmTreeDude yea man! They all looked pretty healthy. 

I'm with you as far as commercial plantings go. Would be nice to see more of them. They definitely come with their headaches tho with cleaning and whatnot and are still not full hardy in this area but that may change if/as we get slightly warmer. 

Evergreen nursery here in town sells a ton of them, if nothing else they are still being readily planted on the residential side. 

[DAVEinMB]

Washingtonia kinda day. Mostly all robusta, one monster filibusta. 

[PalmTreeDude]

On 3/21/2020 at 8:25 PM, DAVEinMB said:

Washingtonia kinda day. Mostly all robusta, one monster filibusta. 

There are some right along the beach that I remember seeing every time I visited, and every year they would be taller and taller. The thing I like so much about Washingtonia robusta is that if they get damaged, they grow out the damage so fast that in a month or two they’ll look like they have just been pruned rather than cold damaged. 

[Mr.SamuraiSword]

On 9/23/2019 at 9:29 AM, DAVEinMB said:

Some more CIDP.

 

I would like to know more about this one, definatly the biggest and oldest looking CIDP ive seen in Myrtle Beach.  Wonder when this was planted?  How cold was it in the 80s freezes there? I know of CIDP planted in florida in the 70s around this size so I'm intrigued here. 

[Mr.SamuraiSword]

On 9/17/2019 at 3:41 PM, DAVEinMB said:

 

 

 

Ive seen this one before I'm pretty sure it's a sylvester or a hybrid with some sylvester 

[DAVEinMB]

8 hours ago, Mr.SamuraiSword said:

I would like to know more about this one, definatly the biggest and oldest looking CIDP ive seen in Myrtle Beach.  Wonder when this was planted?  How cold was it in the 80s freezes there? I know of CIDP planted in florida in the 70s around this size so I'm intrigued here. 

I'll try to see if I can dig up some more info on it. There are a bunch of sabals on the same lot that have extreme necked down spots on their trunks that could point towards battling through some wild cold event. There are also a handful of cidp planted throughout the course but none of them compare to this one. I imagine the microclimate this tree has in the courtyard where it's planted is pulling it through what would otherwise shock or kill it. 

[DAVEinMB]

8 hours ago, Mr.SamuraiSword said:

Ive seen this one before I'm pretty sure it's a sylvester or a hybrid with some sylvester 

Ahhh, yea you're right. If I have time I'll try to get better pics of it. 

[howfam]

On 3/20/2020 at 9:21 AM, DAVEinMB said:

@PalmTreeDude yea man! They all looked pretty healthy. 

I'm with you as far as commercial plantings go. Would be nice to see more of them. They definitely come with their headaches tho with cleaning and whatnot and are still not full hardy in this area but that may change if/as we get slightly warmer. 

Evergreen nursery here in town sells a ton of them, if nothing else they are still being readily planted on the residential side. 

DaveinMB:

Have you all tried the Washingtonia filifera? They are much more cold hardy, and make a more sturdy specimen with their thick trunks. They grow really good after they get through the 1 gal. pot stage and adapt to the humidity. Maybe you can get some seeds and start a W. filifera movement in your area. Anderson's seeds in Calif. has them at a cheap price./ howfam

[DAVEinMB]

2 hours ago, howfam said:

DaveinMB:

Have you all tried the Washingtonia filifera? They are much more cold hardy, and make a more sturdy specimen with their thick trunks. They grow really good after they get through the 1 gal. pot stage and adapt to the humidity. Maybe you can get some seeds and start a W. filifera movement in your area. Anderson's seeds in Calif. has them at a cheap price./ howfam

My understanding is that it's too wet for pure filifera here but I'm not opposed to trying one (or a couple) out . For the sake of time I'd prolly opt for a small plant, 5g or so and see how it does. 

Washingtonias for sale are somewhat hard to come by around here. Most nurseries don't bother with them because they aren't full hardy and the ones that do carry them seem to only stock robusta. All the filibusta I've seen have a good bit of size to them so maybe at one point they were an option at nurseries or perhaps a few were mixed in with the robusta shipments. To my knowledge I have never come across a filifera, either planted or for sale. 

There's still a good bit of real estate in my ever expanding palm garden, I'll let you know if/when a filifera is added to the mix 

[howfam]

3 hours ago, DAVEinMB said:

My understanding is that it's too wet for pure filifera here but I'm not opposed to trying one (or a couple) out . For the sake of time I'd prolly opt for a small plant, 5g or so and see how it does. 

Washingtonias for sale are somewhat hard to come by around here. Most nurseries don't bother with them because they aren't full hardy and the ones that do carry them seem to only stock robusta. All the filibusta I've seen have a good bit of size to them so maybe at one point they were an option at nurseries or perhaps a few were mixed in with the robusta shipments. To my knowledge I have never come across a filifera, either planted or for sale. 

There's still a good bit of real estate in my ever expanding palm garden, I'll let you know if/when a filifera is added to the mix 

Well, the filiferas are hardy to low teens , even single digits in their native California. If they lose any hardiness in the Southeastern U.S., it shouldn't be very much. I think the biggest threat to the Washies anywhere these days is the fusarium wilt that's killing them in California and other places. Check out the 2 filiferas in the pic below here in Jacksonville, Fl. ; there are others in town and they always look healthy.