Phoenix theophrasti

[Xenon]

15 minutes ago, Jeff985 said:

I’ve read that mexicanas are susceptible, but  I haven’t actually seen it. Here there are way more palmettos than mexicanas. 

Kinda strange how as soon you head south or west of Victoria, pretty much all you encounter is S. mexicana. In Houston, S. mexicana is significantly more common in town than in the suburbs. 

[Jeff985]

16 minutes ago, Xenon said:

Kinda strange how as soon you head south or west of Victoria, pretty much all you encounter is S. mexicana. In Houston, S. mexicana is significantly more common in town than in the suburbs. 

Palmettos grow here like attractive weeds. Especially close to water. Mexicanas don’t seem to naturalize quite as easily. At least that’s my perception. To buy one they’re way more expensive than palmettos. About triple. I was going to buy one until I found they’re $150 per trunk foot. 

[ahosey01]

3 minutes ago, Jeff985 said:

Palmettos grow here like attractive weeds. Especially close to water. Mexicanas don’t seem to naturalize quite as easily. At least that’s my perception. To buy one they’re way more expensive than palmettos. About triple. I was going to buy one until I found they’re $150 per trunk foot. 

The way I get around this is find a local general contractor who will take a small finders fee to buy them wholesale.

Brahea armata is like $200 - $300 per trunk foot retail around here (Arizona).  Found a local general contractor to do this and got them for like $90 a trunk foot plus a $50 finders fee for the whole shabang.

[Jeff985]

17 minutes ago, ahosey01 said:

The way I get around this is find a local general contractor who will take a small finders fee to buy them wholesale.

Brahea armata is like $200 - $300 per trunk foot retail around here (Arizona).  Found a local general contractor to do this and got them for like $90 a trunk foot plus a $50 finders fee for the whole shabang.

I have a friend who owns a landscaping company. He’s let me use his discount a few times, but the places he has accounts don’t sell mexicanas. Not a lot of places around here sell them. Odd since we’re so close to their native range. 

[Fusca]

4 hours ago, Matt N- Dallas said:

A number of CIDP’s have been dying around San Antonio for the last couple of years also.  

I haven't noticed the CIDP decline but I have noticed a bunch of local Washingtonia dying off from what appears to be fusarium wilt here on the west side of SA for what it's worth.

[ahosey01]

1 minute ago, Jeff985 said:

I have a friend who owns a landscaping company. He’s let me use his discount a few times, but the places he has accounts don’t sell mexicanas. Not a lot of places around here sell them. Odd since we’re so close to their native range. 

Sounds to me like you might have an opportunity to enter into that market.

[Marius]

My one Phoenix theoprasti is starting to turn blue grey. It’s as if most of my palms only snapped out of winter these last two weeks and started growing. 

[climate change virginia]

how tolerant of humidity are these from dacty to sylvestris

[Meangreen94z]

They typically don’t like humidity. They’ll survive but not look as good as a dry environment 

[buffy]

20 hours ago, Meangreen94z said:

They typically don’t like humidity. They’ll survive but not look as good as a dry environment 

Are you talking about P. theophrastii? They certainly prefer Med conditions, but my experience in Northeast Texas is that they handle humidity quite well. I lost a theo when we went down to 8F a few years back, but it looked fabulous the summer before that. Of course, we're humid, but not quite Houston humid. Perhaps with your conditions, the performance declines. Interesting enough, we have a house up here in Longview with a CIDP out front that's taken everything in stride. Probably 4' or 5' of trunk.  Probably 15-20 years old in the ground. 

[Fusca]

2 hours ago, buffy said:

Are you talking about P. theophrastii? They certainly prefer Med conditions, but my experience in Northeast Texas is that they handle humidity quite well. I lost a theo when we went down to 8F a few years back, but it looked fabulous the summer before that. Of course, we're humid, but not quite Houston humid. Perhaps with your conditions, the performance declines. Interesting enough, we have a house up here in Longview with a CIDP out front that's taken everything in stride. Probably 4' or 5' of trunk.  Probably 15-20 years old in the ground. 

Same experience here although not nearly as humid but we do have our stretches of high humidity.  Probably the graphiola leaf spot resulting from high humidity sets it back some.  My theo has a bad infestation but it's growing well.  Cameron, have you had this issue with yours?  If not it might be due to a general lack of Phoenix palms grown in your area.

[buffy]

On 12/22/2020 at 9:53 AM, Fusca said:

Probably the graphiola leaf spot resulting from high humidity sets it back some.  My theo has a bad infestation but it's growing well. 

More so with wet winters, but once the heat kicks in, it cranks out healthy leaves.  

[Merlyn]

Here is an unknown Phoenix that I've been trying to ID for a couple of years.  I bought it from Green's Nursery in Apopka, and I have two identical ones and a third that is clearly a Reclinata.  But this one is very different.  It's clustering, slow growing (slower than Canariensis), and has super stout thorns.  This one was growing in shade for 1 year, and is right next to a big water oak.  I'm guessing the oak has sucked up much of the soil nutrients and water nearby, which might have slowed down the growth rate.  I just dug it up last night and moved it about 15 feet, since I am having the water oak removed today. 

Any ideas on ID?  Is it a Theophrasti?  Possibly a hybrid?

And leaf end detail:

And the "trunk" and thorns:

[Fusca]

1 hour ago, Merlyn said:

Any ideas on ID?  Is it a Theophrasti?  Possibly a hybrid?

Todd, it looks like it could be a theophrasti but more likely a hybrid.  Theo leaves are stiffer and more pointy than even CIDP.  Did you lose any blood during the transplant?  

[Merlyn]

1 hour ago, Fusca said:

Todd, it looks like it could be a theophrasti but more likely a hybrid.  Theo leaves are stiffer and more pointy than even CIDP.  Did you lose any blood during the transplant?  

It is definitely stiff-leaved and very pointy.  I got scratched by the leaves a bunch in transplant, they will draw blood by themselves.  But I managed to avoid the thorns!

[Fusca]

2 hours ago, Merlyn said:

It is definitely stiff-leaved and very pointy.  I got scratched by the leaves a bunch in transplant, they will draw blood by themselves.  But I managed to avoid the thorns!

Yeah, avoiding the thorns is only half the battle!  The main differences I'm seeing in yours vs mine is that yours is very green, suckering more and leaves seem longer than mine.  I do see some bluish color in the last photo at the petiole base and emerging spear.  Maybe that's a function of your rainfall/humidity.  Longer leaves might be due to a lot of shade?  Otherwise it might have some CIDP in it?  Mine is in half-day full sun so not exactly an ideal spot for it.  It's about 6' overall height and I've only removed one sucker so far.  Planted in March 2018 from a 3-gallon.

Edited January 6, 2021 by Fusca

[Merlyn]

3 hours ago, Fusca said:

The main differences I'm seeing in yours vs mine is that yours is very green, suckering more and leaves seem longer than mine.  I do see some bluish color in the last photo at the petiole base and emerging spear.  Maybe that's a function of your rainfall/humidity.  Longer leaves might be due to a lot of shade?  Otherwise it might have some CIDP in it? 

Yes, this one is very green.  The fronds come out bluish-green and then quickly the rachis turns yellow-green.  Older rachis/petiole turn yellow-orange.  Overall frond length is about 4-6 feet, but the longest ones were grown in heavy shade.  Newer ones are probably about 4 feet.  The other one is identical in appearance, probably from the same batch of seeds 10+ years ago.  They've been essentially neglected in pots in a back corner of Green's nursery, because Reclinata-ish palms went out of style.

I was thinking it was a hybrid of some sort, just because most of them are.  I was looking at Loureiroi as well, due to the yellow petioles and big thorns.  But the leaves aren't quite right for that one either.

Here's photos of the other one, you can see it's more bluish than a B. Alfredii or L. Chinensis, but less bluish than a Butia or Chamaerops.  It probably needs a bit of fertilizer and more water, with the browned tips and yellowing fronds.  This has been in 100% full sun for ~1.5 years.

[climate change virginia]

I am temped to try one of these if my dacty seedlings die in the backyard they made it 3/4 made it through January (probably because we got a 9b winter)

Edited January 31, 2021 by climate change virginia

[mike.farge@yahoo.com]

I used to be a member of Southeast Palms Society but dropped out when social media started.     I own a female Trachycarpus takil in Alexandria, Virginia.   It is 20 feet tall.   I have a Sabal X birmingham of the same age but with only a six inch trunk.    I also have a good sized Sabal Bermudiana.   The latter is a lot hardier than thought.    I find that palms like well drained soil with a lot of small stones.    Palm dislike wind and survive better when located in an alcove.

Michael Farge, Jr.

703-409-2032