What do you think of my protection method?

[pennerchris@gmail.com]

Here's how I'm attempting to protect my palms: I wrapped a couple of little filiferas in Christmas lights and attached a thermo cube. I've done this to just the trunk before and it was fine, but in my climate I can expect total defoliation every year. I'm trying to avoid that by binding the fronds and wrapping all the way to the top.

Is there any way this will backfire on me? 

[Brad Mondel]

 If it's covered in ice it may die. Why not place a garbage can over it during ice/snow? 

[GottmitAlex]

How tall is it?

[NC_Palms]

I second what Brad said. Definitely would recommend a trash can or some other protective covering.  

[pennerchris@gmail.com]

1 hour ago, NC_Palms said:

I second what Brad said. Definitely would recommend a trash can or some other protective covering.  

4 hours ago, Brad Mondel said:

 If it's covered in ice it may die. Why not place a garbage can over it during ice/snow? 

4 hours ago, Brad Mondel said:

 If it's covered in ice it may die. Why not place a garbage can over it during ice/snow? 

4 hours ago, Brad Mondel said:

 If it's covered in ice it may die. Why not place a garbage can over it during ice/s

4 hours ago, Brad Mondel said:

 

 

[pennerchris@gmail.com]

Idk why my last reply posted like that!!?

Anyway; I'm not opposed to using a trash can, but I was looking for a method that wouldn't require me to check the forecast every night and run outside to cover it all the time. 

We do have occasional winter rain/snow here in west Texas, but we're very dry for the most part. Does that change anything, or would you still opt for the trash can method?

[NC_Palms]

35 minutes ago, pennerchris@gmail.com said:

Idk why my last reply posted like that!!?

Anyway; I'm not opposed to using a trash can, but I was looking for a method that wouldn't require me to check the forecast every night and run outside to cover it all the time. 

We do have occasional winter rain/snow here in west Texas, but we're very dry for the most part. Does that change anything, or would you still opt for the trash can method?

 

Palms are usually hardier in dry climates. I think they are growing Washingtonia and Phoenix in the 7b areas of West Texas and New Mexico. I would think a trash can would work but there are many other options. When I use to live in PA 6b, I covered all my trachycarpus with a frost cloth, towels and Christmas lights.

[jimmyt]

Pennerchris, 

consider over wrapping the palm now with white nursery frost cloth. It will keep the temp about 9 degrees above the ambient alone. With the lights even more. It is breathable and lets water in and out, and light in. It is similar to frost blankets you can buy in the big box stores.  I have used it several years with success. 

Jimmyt

[Allen]

This may be more than you want to do but 4 of the smaller wood stakes in the ground with a pegboard top is what I use.  Note

Overlapping top covered in plastic - angled for runoff

Vented all around just under top

Stapled 6mil plastic around

black weed fabric on side that gets sun to prevent super hot temps

Palm inside is wrapped in burlap/Christmas lights/thermocube and has a temp sensor.

Stays dry/not overly humid this way

 

 

 

[pennerchris@gmail.com]

18 hours ago, Allen said:

This may be more than you want to do but 4 of the smaller wood stakes in the ground with a pegboard top is what I use.  Note

Overlapping top covered in plastic - angled for runoff

Vented all around just under top

Stapled 6mil plastic around

black weed fabric on side that gets sun to prevent super hot temps

Palm inside is wrapped in burlap/Christmas lights/thermocube and has a temp sensor.

Stays dry/not overly humid this way

 

 

 

Impressive, but that would be overkill for out here... Where are you located? Do you just plan to do that while they're young?

[jimmyt]

This is what I use on my bigger palms.  Wrap the cable around the crown and some on the trunk, connected to a central thermostat.  (W. filiferas, and P.dactyliferas). Mildly spendy to start but last years, and is re-useable again and again. I have not lost a palm yet that I have used these on.  Last winter's low was 8 degree F for several hours.

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Just my 2 cents.........

jimmyt

[RJ]

1 hour ago, jimmyt said:

This is what I use on my bigger palms.  Wrap the cable around the crown and some on the trunk, connected to a central thermostat.  (W. filiferas, and P.dactyliferas). Mildly spendy to start but last years, and is re-useable again and again. I have not lost a palm yet that I have used these on.  Last winter's low was 8 degree F for several hours.

 

Just my 2 cents.........

jimmyt

Jimmy, I like the idea, it's similar to what Walt does for his Coco in the winter. Do you also cover/wrap the palm? Any pictures of the finished product? 

 

Thanks

 

RJ

[Allen]

I'm in zone 7a TN.  Last ear low was 0F with -15F wind chill. Any small palms can use this method.  Larger palms can be treated with another method.  

There are a couple potential problems using heating tape.  One if it's not in 'contact' with a metal pipe it can overheat itself and two it is not rated to be wrapped.  It is supposed to lay straight on one side of a pipe.  In my opinion small Christmas lights are superior if you can keep them dry to avoid any gfci issues.  

[jimmyt]

8 minutes ago, Allen said:

I'm in zone 7a TN.  Last ear low was 0F with -15F wind chill. Any small palms can use this method.  Larger palms can be treated with another method.  

There are a couple potential problems using heating tape.  One if it's not in 'contact' with a metal pipe it can overheat itself and two it is not rated to be wrapped.  It is supposed to lay straight on one side of a pipe.  In my opinion small Christmas lights are superior if you can keep them dry to avoid any gfci issues.  

Allen,

  These are not heating tapes.  These are Gutter heater cables that can be overlapped without overheating., Low wattage; it is warm not hot. These are for wet locations.  I can hold it in my hand while it is on without concern. I wrap the crown and some of the trunk like a candy cane stripe. Usually I do not overlap the cable but sometimes I do, and without consequences. These cables are mildy stiff so wrapping a small palm would not work but anything about 2" and bigger they will wrap. Otherwise you could buy the shorter version and apply it as straight line on the trunk into the crown possibly then bring it back down the other side the trunk.  I do not over wrap with cloth as it is nearly impossible to wrap the crown(most important part) on a washingtonia or phoenix due to the spines(spineless varieties might be a different story).  Christmas lights will work ok but the cable will lay flat against the palm trunk or crown which allows for better direct transfer of heat in my opinion.

RJ, 

  I do not have any current pictures but will likely have some in the next 2 weeks as I will put the cables up on the palms. Tonight's low is only 28F.  When it starts to get into the low 20's and teens, then I have a problem.  I will try to post a picture then.

 

jimmyt

 

[Allen]

I researched the heating cables a bit and it does look like they will not overheat.  I like that they are water tight but not that they are inflexible in putting around the fronds/spear/etc.  Looks like every 2' of cord is 10 watts so a 8' cord puts out the same heat as 100 mini Christmas lights or 40 watts.  With either method if you don't wrap over these with burlap/frost cloth or covering , you will lose a lot of heat.  Small palms need 50-100 Christmas lights here for me and my 8' tall one will get about 300.  I think I can cover palms here up to about 12' tall with out much difficulty.  

For the original poster if you don't waterproof the cords in your pic you will have a gfci trip during rains.

 

[pennerchris@gmail.com]

Allen, do you lose your fronds annually?

[Tropicdoc]

I highly recommend bubble foil instead of frost cloth. It is insulated and waterproof and also can stand on its own when rolled into a cylinder which makes it easy to wrap around an already bundled palm 

[Allen]

No I don't lose any fronds or any cold damage.  I have mainly trachy and sabal varieties so they are tough anyway.  

Edited November 13, 2018 by Allen

[RJ]

16 hours ago, jimmyt said:

 

RJ, 

  I do not have any current pictures but will likely have some in the next 2 weeks as I will put the cables up on the palms. Tonight's low is only 28F.  When it starts to get into the low 20's and teens, then I have a problem.  I will try to post a picture then.

 

jimmyt

 

Jimmy, sounds great I look forward to the pics and certainly appreciate it. 

 

Cheers! 

-RJ

 

 

[JSKeys]

On 11/11/2018, 6:26:38, Allen said:

This may be more than you want to do but 4 of the smaller wood stakes in the ground with a pegboard top is what I use.  Note

Overlapping top covered in plastic - angled for runoff

Vented all around just under top

Stapled 6mil plastic around

black weed fabric on side that gets sun to prevent super hot temps

Palm inside is wrapped in burlap/Christmas lights/thermocube and has a temp sensor.

Stays dry/not overly humid this way

 

 

 

What palms are you protecting? I'm in 7a and first year my palms may get a cover of plastic green house, no supplemental heating, second year I may put up a burlap windbreak to protect from burn, and then after that they are on their own (not counting a application of mulch in the fall). I have S. minors, T. fortunei and R. hystrix and they have been doing well.

 

Edited November 15, 2018 by JSKeys

[Allen]

Trachy fortunei and waggie.  I think you'll lose your trachy palms in 7a with no protection unless placed really well even then probably on many winters.  The sabal minors and needle will be fine.  Trachy will get damage below 14F IMO.  Wind chill/rain and  duration all have to be taken into account as well as size/establishment of palm.

Edited November 16, 2018 by Allen

[jimmyt]

Ok this is what I do for my Washys and Date palms: (on the border of 8a/8b).

I really just used this when I first planted them (2-3 years) and could likely stop but.....  Single digit temps last year worry me.  One could over wrap the trunk but I figure the critical part is the crown.  Trying to wrap the crown on Washys and Dates is impossible.  The plugs light up on the PSR cable so that you can tell when they are on. The cables can overlap on the tree without fear of over heating.  I link the all to a corded greenhouse wet location thermostat.  The smallest date has a 6 ft PSR cable on it.  The large Washy has a 50 ft PSR cable.  It is all on a GFCI circuit just in case.  Very small in ground palms could just get frost cloth tent and a short PSR cable or other mild heat source. The yellow stick is a yard-stick The tallest Washy is about 13 ft to leaf bases at the crown.  Just my way not the best way.................

 

[RJ]

Jimmy thanks so much. Appreciate it. 

 

So your thermostat is measures just the ambient temperature from a remote (but close enough) distance to the palms. What set points to you use if you don't mind me asking? 

Those are CIDP's? I take it? 

-RJ

Edited November 19, 2018 by RJ

[mdsonofthesouth]

On 11/15/2018, 12:14:49, JSKeys said:

What palms are you protecting? I'm in 7a and first year my palms may get a cover of plastic green house, no supplemental heating, second year I may put up a burlap windbreak to protect from burn, and then after that they are on their own (not counting a application of mulch in the fall). I have S. minors, T. fortunei and R. hystrix and they have been doing well.

 

 

Careful as I did this last year and when the surprise warm up happened my palms cooked. Honestly we haven't had anything yet to hurt what palms you have and I wouldnt protect them til we drop bellow 20 for night time lows. Be sure to air them out on warm days and keep tabs on the temps inside the enclosure.

Edited November 19, 2018 by mdsonofthesouth

[Allen]

^^^^^^^^

Black out this type setup with landscape cloth and vent or it will fry

[jimmyt]

7 hours ago, RJ said:

Jimmy thanks so much. Appreciate it. 

 

So your thermostat is measures just the ambient temperature from a remote (but close enough) distance to the palms. What set points to you use if you don't mind me asking? 

Those are CIDP's? I take it? 

-RJ

Yes the thermostat is about 6 ft from one of the palms, and another thermostat is tied under the canopy of the bigger Washy. These thermostats are analog dial and range from 30-110 F.  I have them set at 30-32 F. The Phoenix is supposed to be true date palm. I do not know the variety.  I do not use plastic covers/canopies due to weather changes. In the winter here it goes from the teens to the eighties.  Unless the plastic is removed when it gets that hot the plants will cook.  I use nursery frost cloth.  Frost cloth wont burn the plants when it’s warm but keeps the plants about 9 F warmer than the air temp.

jimmyt