Trachycarpus Fortunei Winsan

[PAPalmtrees]

Wow Nice palm 🌴 

[Chris Wilson]

Here’s a few pictures from yesterday evening. It’s doing so well 9 new fronds already this year.

[Chris Wilson]

I also noticed something that I thought was interesting recently, my palm is starting to get a few 360 degree fronds.

[PAPalmtrees]

How are your other plants doing 

[Chris Wilson]

1 hour ago, PaPalmTree said:

How are your other plants doing 

The only thing I lost was a small Washingtonia Robusta and possibly my silver saw palmetto. Everything else is recovering. Sabal Minor and Needle palm didn’t have any damage at all. My bigger Washingtonia Robusta and my Chamaedorea Radicalis defoliated but are growing back. My Cycas Revoluta is growing a nice flush of leaves right now and my biggest surprise was my Meyer lemon surviving it’s first winter in Ohio.

 

 

[PAPalmtrees]

Wow they look good

[PAPalmtrees]

I'm probably gonna put my Meyer Lemon in the ground how do you protect yours

[Chris Wilson]

16 minutes ago, PaPalmTree said:

I'm probably gonna put my Meyer Lemon in the ground how do you protect yours

I kept it very simple lol. I used mini Christmas lights plugged into a thermocube. Then I put a few wooden stakes around it and covered it with a tarp a blanket and then plastic on top. I cut a small hole in the side of it to vent because it was holding a lot of moisture in there at first. When I lost electric in December for 14 hours the temps were around 0F and a little lower all day, I placed a super hand warmer in there and I’m pretty sure that is the only reason it survived that.

[PAPalmtrees]

I'll probably protected the same way if I plant it

[ChicagoPalma]

Hey i don't know if it is normal to have the little bulge on the palm fronds where the petiole and the frond connect and it holds all the fronds because the fronds from my t. bulgaria look more like kind of the older fronds of chris's palm back when it was small.  It seems weird because my last t fortunei did not have that trait and the fronds were more 180 degrees but thats a different story when it comes to the bulgaria.  Although some bulgaria specimen do have this bulge and they seem like they have the winsan mutation but mostly don't.  But im just wondering if there are other answers.

off topic

I also read up on the tesan mutation and it shows that the trunk is way more thicker on smaller specimens and the fronds are more stiffer and closer to the trunk like t. wagnerious. 

Edited July 12, 2023 by ChicagoPalma

[ChicagoPalma]

The tesan mutation would far more make a skinned t. fortunei look much better in apperance.

[WSimpson]

Definitely a nice palm . Good job .

Will

[Chris Wilson]

My palm has made a really nice recovery this year. Even after defoliating it grew 15 new fronds, which is about the same growth rate as past growing seasons.

[EastDutchPalmNut]

Hello palm folks,

I'm new on this forum even though I have been growing palms for about 13 years now here in the Netherlands. So still a beginner pretty much. I have been spoon fed botany though. I mosty grow Trachycarpus species and hybrids but also some Needles, Sabal minor, Chamaerops and I'am currently testing a bunch of Sabal taxon's, Jubaea, Butia eriospatha and odorata (both current status) and plants from different Turkish and Greek population's of Phoenix theophrastii.

I've been intrigued by the cluster of Trachycarpus taxon's around the T. princeps range and equally much by the discussion around these enigmatic plants.

Here's my two pennies.

What I found so far with regard to the Winsan taxon comes from the 'Cold Plant Nursery' in China.

These guys have been doing research in the field so they know a few things I expect.

Their take on it seems to be:

It is not T. fortunei but a closely related taxon. Possibly a more primitive species.

Here is the evidence they bring to support this:

1) the plants known from the Winsan region in the wild are only in part showing the 360° frons This is however not the only distinguishing feature. Also when they show this trait, they show it even in full sun unlike fortunei.

2) The first straps on Winsan seedling's can have 3,4,5 or even 6 ridges whereas fortunei always has 4.

3) Winsan grows significantly faster then fortunei and is larger in foliage in all aspects.

4) foliage is much more regularly cut then any fortunei form.

5) the most interesting distinction ( beside nr. 2) they describe as follows:

"Winsan's main fruiting branch normally has the second round of bifurcations with pendulous strings of seeds hanging down and so the sub-branches are nicely arranged, easy to tell apart from each other whereas Fortunei has the third or fourth round of bifurcations with tightly bunched seed arrangement, hard to see clearly a single sub-branch as numerous sub-branches are Staggered.
It makes me think if the relatively simple branching is the very primitive type of trachycarpus in its genus as no wild primitive Trachycarpus has been been reported to exist before. Such unique fruiting branch arrangement is worth a study."

 

Regardless of it's classification as variety, subspecies or species it does seem to have a strong case for being recognised as distinct  with a specific native range.

To muck up the water a bit more, "T. fortunei (like T. 'wagnerianus') is a species unknown from the wild that has been cultivated for millennia." So, even ìt's status is debatable.

Did any one here notice the above differences?

I my self have twee small T. "Winsan" plants next to a T. fortunei with (near) 360° frons. Let's see what they say in the coming years.

I am looking forward reving this discussion so let's hear it!

 

[SailorBold]

Any updates??

[MrTropical]

PalmTalk would love an update from you! @Chris Wilson

[EastDutchPalmNut]

Hi gents, thanks for taking an interest!

Sorry for the late response. We had to deal with the death of my father in law, so I haven't been on line much. I will post an update shortly. Spoiler alert, we had a great Trachy year so plenty of growth.

 

[Slifer00]

On 9/2/2018 at 11:59 PM, Chris Wilson said:

Anybody growing Trachycarpus Fortunei Winsan? I have one that is about 5 1/2 years old, it is a very fast growing palm it's around 9 feet tall at its tallest leaf tips now. There is not very much information or photos of this palm, I've read that the mother palm has 360 degree fronds but none of seedlings were showing that trait so far. My palms fronds are getting rounder but are not 360 degrees yet. I also read that it is less hardy than regular Fortunei but since I live in Ohio I have to protect it every winter, the lowest my palm has seen unprotected is 19 f. If anybody has any Photos or information about this palm please share. Here is some photos showing the growth of my palm, the first photo is from a few months after I planted it  August 2016 and the second is what it looks like now August 2018.

I drove by the same species of trachycarpus at twice the height a couple years back near Roundwood, County Wicklow. I was wondering what that was!!

[Chris Wilson]

Unfortunately I lost this palm this year. I believe the fact that it defoliated the past couple winters weakened it because it’s the only thing I lost this past winter (Washingtonias, Sago palms and even Meyer lemon overwintered just fine). It survived 9 years here in Ohio.

[SailorBold]

On 9/18/2025 at 8:58 PM, Chris Wilson said:

Unfortunately I lost this palm this year. I believe the fact that it defoliated the past couple winters weakened it because it’s the only thing I lost this past winter (Washingtonias, Sago palms and even Meyer lemon overwintered just fine). It survived 9 years here in Ohio.

Do you have plans to replace? I would argue the variant you had was not a hardy one.. if it was fortunei?? Or some cross with a less hardy type etc..?  Grew too fast.. like a candle in the wind..

[Chris Wilson]

11 hours ago, SailorBold said:

Do you have plans to replace? I would argue the variant you had was not a hardy one.. if it was fortunei?? Or some cross with a less hardy type etc..?  Grew too fast.. like a candle in the wind..

I actually planted its replacement 2 years ago. It was getting tall so fast I knew it wouldn’t last much longer. The new Trachy is just a regular Fortunei as far as I know. It’s doing well and growing fast but nowhere near as fast as the Winsan.

[EastDutchPalmNut]

As promised, be it with some delay, a couple of images of the two T. Winsan plants together with the T. fortunei with Winsan-like leaves. The smaller ones are the Winsan. These are two years old seedlings bought as strappers and planted out after 6 months in a pot. The supposed T. fortunei is about 10 years old and is starting to push upwards. I am surprised to see how mush mas the Winsan gained in a year and a half in the ground. 

[EastDutchPalmNut]

[EastDutchPalmNut]

Keep in mind this in the Netherlands, with long chilly winters and cool summers.

I am curious about your what you all think about the T. forunei. It seems off to me. More like perhaps a Winsan as well, or even a Nova.