NC_Palms Posted May 2, 2018 Report Share Posted May 2, 2018 (edited) Lets discus this. I have always been found on how the Southeastern Coastal Plain has been defined a biome as a whole. Some consider apart of the larger temperate deciduous forest and others consider it apart another temperate biome - the coniferous forest. I've heard it be referenced as a subtropical coniferous forest with high influences of both the tropics and the temperates. Whats your opinion on how to identify the Southern coastal plain and the pine regions as a whole? https://i.pinimg.com/564x/be/0d/d9/be0dd99a7514c4e8ce3c10602d8a3056.jpg This map is from the WWF and they consider the Southern coastal plain to be a temperate coniferous forest. Their defintion of Temperate Coniferous forest covers Florida slash pine prairies to Alaskan fir forest https://www.nrcs.usda.gov/wps/portal/nrcs/detail/ga/home/?cid=stelprdb1254129 Heres a map of the Longleaf pine. Longleaf pine ecosystems were the dominate forest type on the coastal plain before the Civil War. There range crosses out of the WWF definition into the Southeastern mixed forest ecoregion. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subtropics wikipedia includes everything until Virginia Beach as Subtropical Edited May 2, 2018 by NC_Palms Zone 8a Greenville, NC Zone 8b/9a Bluffton, SC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palmsbro Posted May 2, 2018 Report Share Posted May 2, 2018 Wikipedia article on this, which says that these coniferous forests are 'subtopical/tropical' and gives a different map than your .jpg image: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southeastern_conifer_forests. I have no current personal definition of these forests myself. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nj Palms Posted May 3, 2018 Report Share Posted May 3, 2018 Here in the pine barrens basically the only tree is pitch pine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nj Palms Posted May 3, 2018 Report Share Posted May 3, 2018 Some long leaf pine mixed in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdsonofthesouth Posted May 4, 2018 Report Share Posted May 4, 2018 (edited) Most of Maryland and Virginia are humid subtropic. Longleaf can grow here, but either isn't endemic or fell victim like loblolly and bald cypress in early colonial days. Thankfully loblolly is fast growing but still is a shadow of its pre colonial self in the DMV. Sadly bald cypress is not fast growing and is very much a protected species here in the DMV. Suffice it to say the eastern US is still reeling from the deforestation of those days....that and urban sprawl. Edited May 4, 2018 by mdsonofthesouth LOWS 16/17 12F, 17/18 3F, 18/19 7F, 19/20 20F Palms growing in my garden: Trachycarpus Fortunei, Chamaerops Humilis, Chamaerops Humilis var. Cerifera, Rhapidophyllum Hystrix, Sabal Palmetto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdsonofthesouth Posted May 4, 2018 Report Share Posted May 4, 2018 On 5/2/2018, 8:14:06, Nj Palms said: Some long leaf pine mixed in. I think you're thinking about the loblolly that was naturalized there some years ago in far southern NJ. LOWS 16/17 12F, 17/18 3F, 18/19 7F, 19/20 20F Palms growing in my garden: Trachycarpus Fortunei, Chamaerops Humilis, Chamaerops Humilis var. Cerifera, Rhapidophyllum Hystrix, Sabal Palmetto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nj Palms Posted May 4, 2018 Report Share Posted May 4, 2018 No,I have seen long leaf and loblolly in south jersey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdsonofthesouth Posted May 4, 2018 Report Share Posted May 4, 2018 Wonder if it will naturalize. Its not as hardy as loblolly. LOWS 16/17 12F, 17/18 3F, 18/19 7F, 19/20 20F Palms growing in my garden: Trachycarpus Fortunei, Chamaerops Humilis, Chamaerops Humilis var. Cerifera, Rhapidophyllum Hystrix, Sabal Palmetto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NC_Palms Posted May 19, 2018 Author Report Share Posted May 19, 2018 Longleaf pine grows naturally up into Virginia. I think some longleaf pines are planted up in the D.C area. Zone 8a Greenville, NC Zone 8b/9a Bluffton, SC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew92 Posted May 19, 2018 Report Share Posted May 19, 2018 Most of the southeast U.S. is considered the humid subtropics: even most of the FL peninsula. I am visiting the Orlando area right now, and I marvel at how the woods around here are practically a carbon copy of my area in NW Florida. The longleaf pine forest stretched as far south in Florida as Lake Okeechobee. See article. Long-Leaf Pines of Lake Okeechobee 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
necturus Posted May 20, 2018 Report Share Posted May 20, 2018 I always marvel at reports that early settlers could ride at full gallop through the coniferous forests of east Texas. It shows that they were all cut down! The pines that have replaced them are not the same, the dense forests of Sam Houston National Forest. I imagine it once looked like that picture. Very cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NC_Palms Posted May 22, 2018 Author Report Share Posted May 22, 2018 On 5/19/2018, 10:23:03, Opal92 said: Most of the southeast U.S. is considered the humid subtropics: even most of the FL peninsula. I am visiting the Orlando area right now, and I marvel at how the woods around here are practically a carbon copy of my area in NW Florida. The longleaf pine forest stretched as far south in Florida as Lake Okeechobee. See article. Long-Leaf Pines of Lake Okeechobee Central Florida and North Florida are both apart of the Southeastern conifer forest ecoregion. When you reach Palm Beach county and the Everglades, the conifer forest becomes replaced by tropical broadleaves. Zone 8a Greenville, NC Zone 8b/9a Bluffton, SC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NC_Palms Posted May 22, 2018 Author Report Share Posted May 22, 2018 On 5/2/2018, 6:22:22, Palmsbro said: Wikipedia article on this, which says that these coniferous forests are 'subtopical/tropical' and gives a different map than your .jpg image: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southeastern_conifer_forests. I have no current personal definition of these forests myself. That is specifically the Southeastern conifer forest ecoregion. The image I gave in the .jpd was the entire biome. According to Wikipedia the entire coniferous forest biome stretches from Maryland to Texas into Florida. Zone 8a Greenville, NC Zone 8b/9a Bluffton, SC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdsonofthesouth Posted May 23, 2018 Report Share Posted May 23, 2018 On 5/21/2018, 10:41:32, NC_Palms said: That is specifically the Southeastern conifer forest ecoregion. The image I gave in the .jpd was the entire biome. According to Wikipedia the entire coniferous forest biome stretches from Maryland to Texas into Florida. The eastern half of the DMV is mostly southern yellow pine. The delmarva peninsula is almost only southern yellow pine with anything else being planted most likely. Essentially the costal plains and tidewater regions to a lesser extent. The piedmont region has a healthy mix of trees with good strands of pine here and there. We have loblolly spots as far west as Mount airy in the tri-county area, although we are starting to get into the shortleaf region (still southern yellow) as we approach appalachia. 1 LOWS 16/17 12F, 17/18 3F, 18/19 7F, 19/20 20F Palms growing in my garden: Trachycarpus Fortunei, Chamaerops Humilis, Chamaerops Humilis var. Cerifera, Rhapidophyllum Hystrix, Sabal Palmetto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill H2DB Posted May 23, 2018 Report Share Posted May 23, 2018 Having lived in this area for over 66 years , here is my take on the pine forests . I graduated from the long gone downtown Mainland High School , in 1962 . Our ' tongue in cheek" class song was.....Pine Tree , Pine tree , Pine tree........ I am not well versed on the species , but : One of the industries in the area was the Turpentine gathering . Slash Pines and the scars can still be seen in the undeveloped areas all around . Another industry hereabouts was the Pulpwood gathering and transporting to the mills , mostly in the Palatka area . Out and away , that still is ongoing but is highly mechanized . In older days , on side roads , it was common to get caught behind a drastically overloaded truck , stacked Way Too high, as it made it's way to the mill . Lumbering happened too . Sawmills here and there . Here and there even in town , there are a few remnants of the native Longleaf ,hard pine, and other species. They are getting quite old now , and are not being replaced . There are still stands of the Sand Pines in the area , and generally indicate well drained , deep sand places . These stretch across to and through the Ocala National forest . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbean Posted May 27, 2018 Report Share Posted May 27, 2018 Well, here are my observations for east central Florida: Pond pine ( Pinus serotina ) grow as far south as northern Osceola county and central Brevard; Longleaf pine ( Pinus palustris ) as far south as Okeechobee and Indian River counties; Loblolly pine ( Pinus taeda ) as far south as Orange and northern Brevard counties. Sand pine ( Pinus clausa ) grow mostly on scrub habitat along the east coast as far south as Broward county. Slash pine of course grow everywhere, but as far as a distinction between densa and elliottii, there is no clear cut difference but generally slash pines exhibit more densa characteristics the further south you go. The closet there is to a boundary between the two slash pine varieties may be in southern Volusia county 1 Brevard County, Fl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdsonofthesouth Posted May 27, 2018 Report Share Posted May 27, 2018 (edited) Pond pine is another one I forget about that we have too. I heard slash pine is hardy to zone 7 also which is surprising given their current native range, but then again rhapidophyllum's current native range is almost identical to elliottii yet is the hardiest palm in the world. Anyone have definitive information on its hardiness? Reason I ask is I am toying with the idea of planting a grove of loblolly, longleaf and slash to see what happens . Edited May 27, 2018 by mdsonofthesouth 1 LOWS 16/17 12F, 17/18 3F, 18/19 7F, 19/20 20F Palms growing in my garden: Trachycarpus Fortunei, Chamaerops Humilis, Chamaerops Humilis var. Cerifera, Rhapidophyllum Hystrix, Sabal Palmetto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nj Palms Posted May 27, 2018 Report Share Posted May 27, 2018 Pond pine is native here and I have seen groves of it.Also lobboly is native to Southern New Jersey.Heres a video:https://youtu.be/AtZ4xDanPKI P.S Not my video Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PalmTreeDude Posted July 21, 2020 Report Share Posted July 21, 2020 (edited) I think that once you start seeing native Bald Cypress, Loblolly Pines, Longleaf Pines, and Slash Pines (farther South), you know you’re in the Coastal Plain. In Virginia, you’ll see Loblollys (which also grow quite far inland, including where I am in the Richmond Area) and Bald Cypress, along with very small areas of Longleaf Pine, that are mostly conservation areas, in the Southeastern part of the state in the Coastal Plain. This continues as you go farther south. Take a look at the range of Bald Cypress, it seems to stay in the Atlantic and Gulf Coastal Plains and almost lines up perfectly with maps of them, other than in the far Northeast portion. Edited July 21, 2020 by PalmTreeDude Added Image 1 PalmTreeDude Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahosey01 Posted July 23, 2020 Report Share Posted July 23, 2020 I know this isn’t super insightful with respect to the classification of these forests, but I took a camping trip to central & northwest Florida with the wife and kids a few years back. I remember being surprised at just how much the Goethe State Forest in particular looked like the ponderosa forests north of the Mogollon rim in Arizona where I live. The primary visual difference - aside from a different pine species - were the small palms scattered on the ground between the pines. This was also right after the hurricane that whomped Mexico Beach had passed through, so the humidity was low and the temps were mild. As a result, it even felt weather-wise like I was camping in the high pines back home. Remarkable experience and one of my favorite places I’ve ever been. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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