Pritchardia SP

[palmtreesforpleasure]

Hello Brains trust, Need some help identifying this Pritchardia species, have 2 with the same name and they are definitely different, 

I have put up bigger files so you can zoom in

 

[palmtreesforpleasure]

More pictures

Thank you

regards

Colin

[richnorm]

Tough call!  Those flowers look very sparse and lanky for a pritchardia. Maybe glabrata?  But not altogether glabrous.  No fruit?    Of course you are not giving us the name on the labels!

[Jim in Los Altos]

Doesn't Pritchardia minor flower at a small size like that?

[richnorm]

15 minutes ago, Jim in Los Altos said:

Doesn't Pritchardia minor flower at a small size like that?

Yes, but all wrong for minor

[quaman58]

Not having much, if any of the bronze/silver leaf backs rule out a number of them, including minor. The undulating leaf blade reminded me of remota, but that's just a guess. The leaves are very deeply divided as well. I think you just need to be a real nerd & look at the flower structure closely when open, as well as branching of the flower stalk & length of it. Hodel's book should be helpful for that.

[palmtreesforpleasure]

Hello Brains trust, it is not Minor, Forbesiana,

regards

Colin

[richnorm]

Does seem somewhat consistent with Forbesiana.  Fruit when they come should be quite large (1-1 1/2 inches).  

[palmtreesforpleasure]

Meant to say not Forbesiana, 

What has happened to the Hawaiian and the rest of the American palmtalkers for the Pritchardia ID, 

need some help on this ID ?

regards

Colin

 

[Kailua_Krish]

Doesnt look like Martii, Lowreyana, or Bakeri. Also its not in the complex of hardyi viscosa pearlmanii etc.

[quaman58]

Giving this some thought, I'm going with glabrata. Flowering at a small stature; green leaf undersides & deeply split leaves.  Can't think of any other that works..

[Matt in OC]

Keying out from the Hodel book, I think Glabrata is pretty likely but you’d have to wait until it fruits to be sure. 

[Zeeth]

P. glabrata seems right to me too

[mike in kurtistown]

Could be glabrata. Here's one of mine for comparison, photo from last September: Mine have not yet flowered.

 

[Mandrew968]

On 3/21/2018, 2:50:28, Jim in Los Altos said:

Doesn't Pritchardia minor flower at a small size like that?

That's my guess.

[Matt in OC]

Minor should have a distinct bronze color on the undersides of the leaves. Minor is also not as deeply divided, not as glossy and more flat than wavy. 

[quaman58]

Like Matt said..

[palmtreesforpleasure]

Thank you for your input on this Pritchardia, it was supplied as a Pritchardia lowreyana, I have another which is very different to it. Trying to sort out a few of them

thankyou

regards

Colin

[Matt in OC]

If I remember Hodel's key correctly, Lowreyana seemed very close to Glabrata in a lot of characteristics aside from size.

[Darold Petty]

The spadix of P. minor is extremely 'fuzzy', this one doesn't look that way.

[richnorm]

22 hours ago, palmtreesforpleasure said:

Thank you for your input on this Pritchardia, it was supplied as a Pritchardia lowreyana, I have another which is very different to it. Trying to sort out a few of them

thankyou

regards

Colin

That was my first thought but the flowers don't look like pictured in the Hodel book though having read further the words describe your flowers quite well.  Large fruits on this one.  Does well in NZ.  Flowers young and very slow to produce trunk.  Really hard to be definitive with some Pritchardia.  100% not minor though.

[palmtreesforpleasure]

more flower pictures

[palmtreesforpleasure]

At the suggestions of the group , i went back to the gardens and took more pictures of the flowers, pictures above

regards

colin

[richnorm]

Tough call Colin. Fruit looks more lowreyana than glabrata but flowers seem a little different from Hodel's book and perhaps more like glabrata!  I can photograph the relevant pages of the book and send to you if that helps....

cheers R

[palmtreesforpleasure]

Thank you for offering to copy the pages. After the suggestions I ordered one and it arrived today and was still not sure of the species.

Wollongong botanic gardens has now P hildebrandtii, P martii, P forbesiana, P minor, P remota and the unknown one which was bought as P lowreyana.

I have one at home which was bought as P Lowreyana and it is completely different so will put it up for ID in another post.

So it looks like the one in Wollongong BG may be Lowreyana after all, hopefully will get a few more confirmations.

Will take some pictures of the one at home and see if it can be identified.

regards

Colin

[mike in kurtistown]

Here is one of my loulus that I have assumed that is lowreyana, the usual 5-gal orange bucket for scale: Seed collected on Oahu in March 2005, planted out in July 2012. Neither tis palm nor my glabrata posted above have yet flowered.

Comparing my glabrata (shown in a previous post) with this one, it seems that the glabrata leaves are more an inverted cup shape with more pendulous leaf tips, whereas the lowreyana leaves are more laterally folded and stiffer. Both palms stay low to the ground - I have never seen either species old enough to have trunk. The lowreyanas I have seen have weirdly long inflorescenses that cause the bunches of large seeds to lie on the ground.

Here are pictures of one in a local arboretum, also flowers and fruits. I assumed these to be lowreyana, but now that we have had the present discussion, I am no longer sure.

I thought I could distinguish glabrata and lowreyana, but I am no longer sure. Perhaps the long lowreyana inflorescences may be the best factor. The ancestor of my glabratas was said by the manager of the Amy Greenwell Garden to have come from a tree in the type locality. The seeds were also large, but were held closer to the trunk on shorter bracts.

 

[mike in kurtistown]

I couldn't understand why I didn't have photos of the glabratas in the Amy Greenwell Garden. These trees were from seeds collected at the type locality for the species, acc. to the then-manager of the garden. (The garden has recently closed, but a volunteer group is trying to raise funds to reopen it.)

Now I have found four pictures, taken during a trip to the Big Island in the summer of 2005: The first three are of the larger of the two palms, and the last is of the smaller.

 

[palmtreesforpleasure]

Thank you all for you help...much appreciated

As it is in a Botanic Gardens it is important the labelling is correct as we all use Botanic Gardens to help us identify genus and species.

As this Pritchardia has short droppy leaf tips it 

seems it is lowyreana rather than glabrata

Thank you

Regards

Colin