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On ‎4‎/‎2‎/‎2018‎ ‎1‎:‎58‎:‎26‎, mthteh1916 said:

But yet still no or almost no coco palms there, which are ubiquitous in south FL. If it is so mild in winter, why so few coco palms anywhere around the beaches of South Padre Island? If that were Florida, coco palms would line the main blvd of South Padre Island. The fact that they don't means people there are too afraid to plant them knowing in a decade or so they would be wiped out.

Tom,

No, it's actually just the lack of availability of them at local nurseries and garden centers that is the ONLY reason people aren't planting more of them!  I know, I am a member of the Palm Society of South Texas, and there are A LOT of people who want them in the Valley, and even more people wanting them up here in Corpus Christi too!!!  As far as planting them along the boulevard running down the middle of South Padre Island, a lot of us would LOVE THAT, but there is the water issue, since it is a semi arid climate, they would need a lot of supplemental watering there, and the City of South Padre Island is probably not willing to invest the funds for the adequate irrigation for them, however, ironically, if they panted dozens of them there and along the beach and at Isla Blanca Park at the southern tip of the island, IT WOULD GREATLY INCREASE THE TROPICAL APPEARANCE OF THE ISLAND AND PROBABLY BRING IN A LOT MORE TOURISM, AS THE ISLAND WOULD GET MORE OF A REPUTATION FOR BEING A BEAUTIFUL TROPICAL RESORT WITH ITS WHITE SAND BEACHES AND CLEAR WATER!!!

John

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On ‎4‎/‎2‎/‎2018‎ ‎2‎:‎00‎:‎19‎, mthteh1916 said:

Yet still no mass plantings of coco palms along South Padre Islands oceanfront like in Florida. Reason, people know they will be wiped out in a decade or so, otherwise nothing says great beach destination like coco palms and they would be all over that area if they could survive. They can't.

Oh, but they can survive and even thrive there long term if given adequate watering in the hot dry summer!!!  Trust me, I have a degree in Agriculture, 34 years of horticultural experience and work in landscaping, and they ARE NOT WIDELY PLANTED THERE DUE TO LACK OF AVAILABILITY!!!  The local wholesale growers and consequently, the retail nurseries have REALLY DROPPED THE BALL in regard to Coconut Palms in the Rio Grande Valley, especially the Lower Valley around Brownsville, Port Isabel, and South Padre Island, where Coconut Palms do every bit as good as the do  St. Petersburg, FL, or Melbourne, FL!  There is public demand for them, but the nurseries REFUSE to meet the demand!!!  I think part of the problem is the USDA quarantine on sprouted nuts coming out of Florida, but I have heard there are ways around this!  Also, I guess the growers in the Valley are not willing to get approved certified Malayan Dwarf and Maypan nuts shipped in from the Costa Rican Coconut Board (one nursery there did about 10 years ago though) that can be sprouted and sold to the retail nurseries and to landscapers.  I actually met a wealthy developer about 10 years ago, who builds high end homes on and near the beach at South Padre Island who like me, loves Coconut Palms and wanted to see A LOT of them planted at South Padre Island and in his developments, but again, the problem is LACK OF AVAILABILITY!!!

John

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On ‎4‎/‎2‎/‎2018‎ ‎5‎:‎07‎:‎55‎, Xerarch said:

From what I understand from the data, South Padre has a climate quite similar to the central Florida coast like Merritt Island, there are many coconuts on Merritt Island thought not as many there are in S Florida. The last slate clearing freeze for coconuts there was in 1989 and since then there have been at least a couple that have killed some here and there on the island, maybe even this year’s event, I haven’t heard. 

So, the climates being similar, S Padre should support as many coconuts as there are on Merritt island. The problem is that coconuts are not available in Texas, whatever import laws etc. preclude them and Texas does have any truly acceptable real estate for growing them commercially as S. Florida does. 

Actually the soil in the Brownsville area is a rich delta soil, that would be great for commercially growing Coconut Palms, at least for the retail nursery and landscaping industry, if not for nuts too for consumers at local grocery stores and farmer's markets!  Also, if you own land down there and have agricultural interests, you are allotted a certain amount of irrigation water rights from the river, so it would be possible to irrigate a Coconut farm there!!!  I have plans of doing this, at least on a limited basis initially as soon as I can afford a couple of acres there and enough young palms to get started.  I really want to have an ALL ORGANIC COCONUT FARM there growing palms for local nurseries and landscapers, and some nuts for the local markets too!   And by growing them ALL ORGANIC, it will increase their cold hardiness by about 2F to 3F, which is enough to make a world of difference in successfully growing a lot of them in a climate like the Brownsville area!!!

John

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On ‎4‎/‎2‎/‎2018‎ ‎5‎:‎37‎:‎20‎, GottmitAlex said:

So you're saying that one cannot have coco's delivered legally from Florida ( or anywhere else) to TX? 

 

Technically, that's correct due to the USDA Coconut Quarantine on any sprouted nuts coming out of Florida, due to Lethal Yellowing, but Lethal Yellowing has already existed in South Texas for many years, but is sporadic here, and the palms we want to bring in here, the Malayan Dwarfs and Maypan hybrids are more disease resistant, anyway!!!  There are a lot of people who just order sprouted nuts off the internet from Florida, though, and people bring back sprouted nuts from Home Depots and Lowe's in Florida anyway, the quarantine is an obnoxious joke anyway, and NEEDS TO BE LIFTED!!!

John

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On ‎4‎/‎2‎/‎2018‎ ‎7‎:‎01‎:‎55‎, TexasColdHardyPalms said:

You really have no idea what you're talking about here. There are two reasons why coconuts arent prevalent on SPI and the climate isnt one of them. 

If you could bring coconuts across the border from mexico cheaply there would be thousands of them planted. Since you cant source nuts from across the border the cost of the plant is high enough that in that severly depressed economy obtaining a coconut tree isnt as worth sacrificing a few groceries so they plant a 5 gallon w. Robusta for $5 instead. 

Joseph,

You are so right!  Just across the river in Matamoros, I have seen photos of healthy beautiful 50 ft. tall Mexican Tall Coconut Palms, which are the perfect variety to grow in the Rio Grande Valley because of their relative cold hardiness compared to other varieties, but we just can't legally get sprouted nuts across the river!!!  So much for NAFTA and "Free Trade"!  As much as I can't stand Trump, maybe people like me can convince his Ag Dept. and Customs Dept. to start letting sprouted Mexican Tall nuts across the river for us landscapers to plant and nurserymen to sell!!!

John

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On ‎4‎/‎2‎/‎2018‎ ‎9‎:‎46‎:‎22‎, mthteh1916 said:

So all those hotels lining the beach can't afford to buy coconuts. Ok. I don't believe it. It is cause they are afraid a freeze will wipe them out.

They are just NOT AVAILABLE TO ANY EXTENT THERE!!!  That is the reason the hotels, restaurants, and homeowners don't widely plant them!!!  Trust me, I am in the nursery/landscaping line of work!!!

John

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On ‎4‎/‎2‎/‎2018‎ ‎9‎:‎48‎:‎24‎, mthteh1916 said:

no just someone that has lived thru the 80's and the 17F SPI saw. Every single coco would be gone. S. Texas is much more susceptible to arctic cold than Florida. I'm sorry I just don't buy it that all those hotels lining the beach can't afford to buy coconuts from Florida or grow some themselves. They are afraid the 80's temps will return and wipe them out. That is all.

Not at all!!!  If what you are saying IS the case, then you wouldn't see all the beautiful Royal Palms, Foxtail Palms, Royal Poincianas, Orchid Trees, HUGE Ficus, Sea Grapes, Bougainvillea, Hibiscus, Mango Trees, Avocado Trees, Papaya Trees, Guavas, etc. planted throughout the Valley at hotels, restaurants and other businesses, and by homeowners!!!  THE ONLY REASON COCONUT PALMS ARE NOT WIDELY PLANTED THROUGHOUT THE LOWER RIO GRANDE VALLEY, ESPECIALLY THE BROWNSVILL, PORT ISABEL, AND SOUTH PADRE ISLAND AREA IS, I REPEAT, IS LACK OF AVAILABLILITY!!!

John

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1 minute ago, Mr. Coconut Palm said:

Not at all!!!  If what you are saying IS the case, then you wouldn't see all the beautiful Royal Palms, Foxtail Palms, Royal Poincianas, Orchid Trees, HUGE Ficus, Sea Grapes, Bougainvillea, Hibiscus, Mango Trees, Avocado Trees, Papaya Trees, Guavas, etc. planted throughout the Valley at hotels, restaurants and other businesses, and by homeowners!!!  THE ONLY REASON COCONUT PALMS ARE NOT WIDELY PLANTED THROUGHOUT THE LOWER RIO GRANDE VALLEY, ESPECIALLY THE BROWNSVILL, PORT ISABEL, AND SOUTH PADRE ISLAND AREA IS, I REPEAT, IS LACK OF AVAILABLILITY!!!

John

ALL the above mentioned trees and plants WOULD BE WIPED OUT BY A 1980'S TYPE FREEZE, but you see them ALL OVER THE LOWER RIO GRANDE VALLEY, AND THEY ARE BIG!!!

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On ‎4‎/‎2‎/‎2018‎ ‎9‎:‎49‎:‎54‎, mthteh1916 said:

A paltry few. Why aren't there large scale plantings by the commercial wealthy hotels down there?

LOOK AT THE SIZE OF THE "PALTRY FEW"!!!  If they weren't viable for long term planting there, they wouldn't even be half that size!!!  They are every bit as big as coastal Central Florida Coconut Palms!!!

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On ‎4‎/‎5‎/‎2018‎ ‎10‎:‎40‎:‎41‎, Palmsbro said:

Sounds pretty accurate to me, though the 60-something degree off the shores of Pinellas county, Fl (February) is not a perfect example of 'warm water'.

But it IS warmer than our 56F water here at the Gulf beaches in Corpus Christi, and warmer than the 58F water at South Padre in January!

 

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13 hours ago, Mr. Coconut Palm said:

But it IS warmer than our 56F water here at the Gulf beaches in Corpus Christi, and warmer than the 58F water at South Padre in January!

 

That is cold, especially for the Gulf (not for places that freeze over on most winters, though)!

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15 hours ago, Mr. Coconut Palm said:

Joseph,

You are so right!  Just across the river in Matamoros, I have seen photos of healthy beautiful 50 ft. tall Mexican Tall Coconut Palms, which are the perfect variety to grow in the Rio Grande Valley because of their relative cold hardiness compared to other varieties, but we just can't legally get sprouted nuts across the river!!!  So much for NAFTA and "Free Trade"!  As much as I can't stand Trump, maybe people like me can convince his Ag Dept. and Customs Dept. to start letting sprouted Mexican Tall nuts across the river for us landscapers to plant and nurserymen to sell!!!

John

I hear ya john,
Something really needs to be done regarding some of the laws.. or way the laws are implemented and executed.. let alone the reasoning in some cases... 

From another angle,  Here in AZ, According to what i have been told by the manager of a highly respected nursery, and a couple of other sources, it is currently illegal.. or at least highly frowned upon for people to grow Native.. Morning Glory ( Ipomoea) species, yet i can go into some of the local Big Bx stores and see Ipomoea X "Blue Dawn" for sale.. which, at least back in CA is one of the most aggressive ( and hideous) vines anyone could possibly wish to plant. 

The reasoning for their thinking here, at least as i have heard it, is they're afraid of seeds of x species escaping into the Cotton and Alfalfa fields around the region. Most, if not all of the native species are restricted to Riparian sites and are fairly delicate in nature, or don't really get large thus, i can't see how they would be an issue in Agricultural sites where constant land use would thwart establishment.. at least to any significant degree, if at all. Several are also currently listed as threatened as well.. in which case i can agree with limiting distribution. 

On the other hand,  X "Blue Dawn"?? Not hard to see this plant becoming an issue.. Again, VERY  aggressive and prolific seeder... and, as was the case when the nursery id worked for back in San Jose caught fire, not even the intense heat of a raging fire will kill it.. There's no reason, or excuse i could hear under the sun i should see it  for sale in a nursery anywhere here. 

-Nathan



 

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2 hours ago, Silas_Sancona said:

I hear ya john,
Something really needs to be done regarding some of the laws.. or way the laws are implemented and executed.. let alone the reasoning in some cases... 

From another angle,  Here in AZ, According to what i have been told by the manager of a highly respected nursery, and a couple of other sources, it is currently illegal.. or at least highly frowned upon for people to grow Native.. Morning Glory ( Ipomoea) species, yet i can go into some of the local Big Bx stores and see Ipomoea X "Blue Dawn" for sale.. which, at least back in CA is one of the most aggressive ( and hideous) vines anyone could possibly wish to plant. 

The reasoning for their thinking here, at least as i have heard it, is they're afraid of seeds of x species escaping into the Cotton and Alfalfa fields around the region. Most, if not all of the native species are restricted to Riparian sites and are fairly delicate in nature, or don't really get large thus, i can't see how they would be an issue in Agricultural sites where constant land use would thwart establishment.. at least to any significant degree, if at all. Several are also currently listed as threatened as well.. in which case i can agree with limiting distribution. 

On the other hand,  X "Blue Dawn"?? Not hard to see this plant becoming an issue.. Again, VERY  aggressive and prolific seeder... and, as was the case when the nursery id worked for back in San Jose caught fire, not even the intense heat of a raging fire will kill it.. There's no reason, or excuse i could hear under the sun i should see it  for sale in a nursery anywhere here. 

-Nathan

There's a native cotton plant in Florida, which is currently endangered but illegal to grow in the landscape because of commercial fear of boll weevil.

Keith 

Palmetto, Florida (10a) and Tampa, Florida (9b/10a)

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20 hours ago, Mr. Coconut Palm said:

Tom,

No, it's actually just the lack of availability of them at local nurseries and garden centers that is the ONLY reason people aren't planting more of them!  I know, I am a member of the Palm Society of South Texas, and there are A LOT of people who want them in the Valley, and even more people wanting them up here in Corpus Christi too!!!  As far as planting them along the boulevard running down the middle of South Padre Island, a lot of us would LOVE THAT, but there is the water issue, since it is a semi arid climate, they would need a lot of supplemental watering there, and the City of South Padre Island is probably not willing to invest the funds for the adequate irrigation for them, however, ironically, if they panted dozens of them there and along the beach and at Isla Blanca Park at the southern tip of the island, IT WOULD GREATLY INCREASE THE TROPICAL APPEARANCE OF THE ISLAND AND PROBABLY BRING IN A LOT MORE TOURISM, AS THE ISLAND WOULD GET MORE OF A REPUTATION FOR BEING A BEAUTIFUL TROPICAL RESORT WITH ITS WHITE SAND BEACHES AND CLEAR WATER!!!

John

John, If they were mass planted yes it would completely change the reputation with glossy photos on the net and webcams. But I didn't think the water there is that blue and clear. Always heard the water is clearest in the Gulf of Mexico on the FL panhandle and gets progressively worse as you go west down thru Texas. Clear blue water there and warm would be nice. Galveston water looks brown like a river. So does Port Aransas.

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3 hours ago, Zeeth said:

There's a native cotton plant in Florida, which is currently endangered but illegal to grow in the landscape because of commercial fear of boll weevil.

3 hours ago, Zeeth said:

There's a native cotton plant in Florida, which is currently endangered but illegal to grow in the landscape because of commercial fear of boll weevil.

Very true Keith, Id only found out about that after a friend had shared seed he'd collected from plants near his house when i lived in Bradenton. I had to laugh at this when i read about it. I get the concern but ..most people aren't looking to start growing fields of it.

Interesting thing is, that same species occurs on the Pacific coast of Mexico as well. There are additionally 3 other species that are regionally native here and there are no restrictions on growing any of them. If anything, they are highly recommended for inclusion in native garden designs. 

As i said before, while completely on- board with careful trade in species facing threats, as well the laws that exist concerning, for example the movement of firewood, Citrus /Fruit, among other more serious concerns, some of the stuff i have heard and heard when conversing with AG agents themselves can be real head scratchers. At the same time, nurseries here continue selling things like African Sumac, and Sissoo.. which have both shown fairly significant concern if they escape. African Sumac is about as nasty as Brazilian Pepper, which i've also had pop up around the yard this year from nearby, female trees.

Coming back to John's thoughts, if the concern (regarding Coconuts ) revolves around LY,   if.. it currently exists in local Mex Tall  populations just south of the border, You aren't going to stop the Psyllid that spreads it from crossing. As far as anyone knows, it may already be circulating around S. Texas atm.. At some point, stopping people from bringing back nuts from Mexico becomes a waste of time and expenditure that could be put to more resourceful use elsewhere. There is a way that can both safeguard and help promote new opportunities..

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1 hour ago, mthteh1916 said:

Always heard the water is clearest in the Gulf of Mexico on the FL panhandle and gets progressively worse as you go west down thru Texas. Clear blue water there and warm would be nice. Galveston water looks brown like a river. So does Port Aransas.

True that! The beaches here are amazing.  These are some of the pics I’ve taken. And no photo editing of any kind. 

6C60FF5D-5F75-4372-9BD1-47BCFD0626CC.jpeg

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D65324A2-5532-486E-9AE5-911BFEACFE25.jpeg

8AC483D4-AC3E-4A9C-B974-315BE0C372F4.jpeg

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2 hours ago, mthteh1916 said:

John, If they were mass planted yes it would completely change the reputation with glossy photos on the net and webcams. But I didn't think the water there is that blue and clear. Always heard the water is clearest in the Gulf of Mexico on the FL panhandle and gets progressively worse as you go west down thru Texas. Clear blue water there and warm would be nice. Galveston water looks brown like a river. So does Port Aransas.

Didn't want to hijack the other thread; here is a property listing showing the minor cosmetic damage (that will soon be outgrown) from the "snow" earlier this year: https://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/Brownsville-TX/193131687_zpid/51167_rid/26.231838,-97.164116,25.825234,-97.754632_rect/10_zm/5_p/1_fr/

South Padre isn't Siesta Key...but it's leagues ahead of Galveston and a step up from Port Aransas. Usually more blue-green than brown. 

Edited by Xenon
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Jonathan

Katy, TX (Zone 9a)

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1 hour ago, Estlander said:

True that! The beaches here are amazing.  These are some of the pics I’ve taken. And no photo editing of any kind. 

6C60FF5D-5F75-4372-9BD1-47BCFD0626CC.jpeg

7B02B071-D04F-4EF4-8C76-469828F4AF00.jpeg

4E56A3FD-C21E-4D6C-908D-B12BC62D8143.jpeg

73B833B8-5E49-446C-94E7-1A5D91BFECBE.jpeg

038E087E-3886-4E4C-8ABA-39D05005E235.jpeg

AA51EF91-47CA-4299-BF04-DA4B291FA6DD.jpeg

506A53C0-4F56-436C-B0A1-67B15487F28F.jpeg

D65324A2-5532-486E-9AE5-911BFEACFE25.jpeg

8AC483D4-AC3E-4A9C-B974-315BE0C372F4.jpeg

Great pictures!.. 
  
Vividly remember the moment i reached the water's edge at Greyton St. Beach after the long ride from Cincinnati when i drove down the west coast of FL years ago. Spending the night in the car and watching the sun rise over Mexico Beach on the way back was another great memory from that trip. 

That was the same year i also drove down to South Padre.  

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12 hours ago, Palmsbro said:

That is cold, especially for the Gulf (not for places that freeze over on most winters, though)!

It is because the currents in the Western Gulf for some reason in the late fall switch direction and instead of coming up from the Bay of Campeche and Tampico area like they do in the spring and summer, come from the Louisiana coastline heading south in the late fall and winter, which is why our water temps here are significantly colder than they are straight across the Gulf at Clearwater and St. Pete Beach!!!

John

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10 hours ago, Silas_Sancona said:

I hear ya john,
Something really needs to be done regarding some of the laws.. or way the laws are implemented and executed.. let alone the reasoning in some cases... 

From another angle,  Here in AZ, According to what i have been told by the manager of a highly respected nursery, and a couple of other sources, it is currently illegal.. or at least highly frowned upon for people to grow Native.. Morning Glory ( Ipomoea) species, yet i can go into some of the local Big Bx stores and see Ipomoea X "Blue Dawn" for sale.. which, at least back in CA is one of the most aggressive ( and hideous) vines anyone could possibly wish to plant. 

The reasoning for their thinking here, at least as i have heard it, is they're afraid of seeds of x species escaping into the Cotton and Alfalfa fields around the region. Most, if not all of the native species are restricted to Riparian sites and are fairly delicate in nature, or don't really get large thus, i can't see how they would be an issue in Agricultural sites where constant land use would thwart establishment.. at least to any significant degree, if at all. Several are also currently listed as threatened as well.. in which case i can agree with limiting distribution. 

On the other hand,  X "Blue Dawn"?? Not hard to see this plant becoming an issue.. Again, VERY  aggressive and prolific seeder... and, as was the case when the nursery id worked for back in San Jose caught fire, not even the intense heat of a raging fire will kill it.. There's no reason, or excuse i could hear under the sun i should see it  for sale in a nursery anywhere here. 

-Nathan



 

Nathan,

It is so damned frustrating so many of the "regulations"!  They seem to be done just to squash the little guys like me, and for some absurd other reasons that make no sense!  Then the things that should be regulated, AREN'T!  Go figure!  I have a B.S Degree in Agriculture from a major Texas University, and I used to be a cop 25 years ago, and I SEE NO LEGITIMATE REASON WHATSOEVER TO PREVENT HEALTHY SPROUTED MEXICAN TALL COCONUT PALMS TO ROUTINELY PASS OVER THE RIVER FROM MATAMOROS TO BROWNSVILLE FOR US LANDSCAPERS AND NURSERYMEN HERE, NOR ANY LEGITIMATE REASON TO PREVENT MALAYAN DWARFS AND MAYPAN HYBRIDS FROM COMING IN FROM FLORIDA!!!

John

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7 hours ago, Zeeth said:

There's a native cotton plant in Florida, which is currently endangered but illegal to grow in the landscape because of commercial fear of boll weevil.

WOW!  How absurd to prevent home owners from helping to rescue and endangered species!

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5 hours ago, mthteh1916 said:

John, If they were mass planted yes it would completely change the reputation with glossy photos on the net and webcams. But I didn't think the water there is that blue and clear. Always heard the water is clearest in the Gulf of Mexico on the FL panhandle and gets progressively worse as you go west down thru Texas. Clear blue water there and warm would be nice. Galveston water looks brown like a river. So does Port Aransas.

You are right compared to Florida waters, but compared to Galveston, South Padre has the CLEAREST WATER on the Texas Coast, and the REALLY PRETTY BLUE WATER is usually only about a mile or two offshore from South Padre Island, as opposed to about 30 to 40 miles offshore from Galveston.  Port A, though does have some good snorkeling and scuba diving along the jetties there in the late summer and fall, when the visibility on good days can be 20ft. + and lots of tropical damselfish, butterflyfish and angelfish in the summer too!

John

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2 hours ago, Xenon said:

Didn't want to hijack the other thread; here is a property listing showing the minor cosmetic damage (that will soon be outgrown) from the "snow" earlier this year: https://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/Brownsville-TX/193131687_zpid/51167_rid/26.231838,-97.164116,25.825234,-97.754632_rect/10_zm/5_p/1_fr/

South Padre isn't Siesta Key...but it's leagues ahead of Galveston and a step up from Port Aransas. Usually more blue-green than brown. 

Jonathan,

Wow!  What gorgeous Royals and Foxtails!!!  The only thing missing is some nice Coconut Palms around the pool!!!

John

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4 hours ago, Estlander said:

True that! The beaches here are amazing.  These are some of the pics I’ve taken. And no photo editing of any kind. 

6C60FF5D-5F75-4372-9BD1-47BCFD0626CC.jpeg

7B02B071-D04F-4EF4-8C76-469828F4AF00.jpeg

4E56A3FD-C21E-4D6C-908D-B12BC62D8143.jpeg

73B833B8-5E49-446C-94E7-1A5D91BFECBE.jpeg

038E087E-3886-4E4C-8ABA-39D05005E235.jpeg

AA51EF91-47CA-4299-BF04-DA4B291FA6DD.jpeg

506A53C0-4F56-436C-B0A1-67B15487F28F.jpeg

D65324A2-5532-486E-9AE5-911BFEACFE25.jpeg

8AC483D4-AC3E-4A9C-B974-315BE0C372F4.jpeg

As a former diver that just does snorkeling now, I love clear blue water, so where exactly were these photos taken at?

John

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18 minutes ago, Mr. Coconut Palm said:

As a former diver that just does snorkeling now, I love clear blue water, so where exactly were these photos taken at?

John

They were taken in Destin, Miramar Beach and Seaside on the Florida panhandle. They’re all pretty close to each other between Pensacola and Panama City basically. 

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3 minutes ago, Estlander said:

They were taken in Destin, Miramar Beach and Seaside on the Florida panhandle. They’re all pretty close to each other between Pensacola and Panama City basically. 

Oh, okay, thanks, but it sure looks like there's a coconut palm about 20ft. tall in the dunes in one of the photos, but it's too cold in the winter for them there in the Panhandle!

John

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1 hour ago, Mr. Coconut Palm said:

It is because the currents in the Western Gulf for some reason in the late fall switch direction and instead of coming up from the Bay of Campeche and Tampico area like they do in the spring and summer, come from the Louisiana coastline heading south in the late fall and winter, which is why our water temps here are significantly colder than they are straight across the Gulf at Clearwater and St. Pete Beach!!!

John

 

On 5/16/2018, 11:20:58, Mr. Coconut Palm said:

But it IS warmer than our 56F water here at the Gulf beaches in Corpus Christi, and warmer than the 58F water at South Padre in January!

 

Wow, that is quite a bit colder, compared to even northern FL Gulf coast water temps. at latitude 30N. 

 

44A33FCF-ECE4-497E-84DC-5D04003ADFEB.png

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25 minutes ago, Mr. Coconut Palm said:

Oh, okay, thanks, but it sure looks like there's a coconut palm about 20ft. tall in the dunes in one of the photos, but it's too cold in the winter for them there in the Panhandle!

John

Yes it does kind of look like a Coconut, doesn’t it? Never really noticed it when i took the pic, but when I saw it later on the photo I was quite surprised too. Could be a Mule, but the trunk looks different.

I took the pic last spring in Seaside. I should probably go back and see it up close. Curious how it did this winter, whatever it is. 

Edited by Estlander
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56 minutes ago, Mr. Coconut Palm said:

Nathan,

It is so damned frustrating so many of the "regulations"!  They seem to be done just to squash the little guys like me, and for some absurd other reasons that make no sense!  Then the things that should be regulated, AREN'T!  Go figure!  I have a B.S Degree in Agriculture from a major Texas University, and I used to be a cop 25 years ago, and I SEE NO LEGITIMATE REASON WHATSOEVER TO PREVENT HEALTHY SPROUTED MEXICAN TALL COCONUT PALMS TO ROUTINELY PASS OVER THE RIVER FROM MATAMOROS TO BROWNSVILLE FOR US LANDSCAPERS AND NURSERYMEN HERE, NOR ANY LEGITIMATE REASON TO PREVENT MALAYAN DWARFS AND MAYPAN HYBRIDS FROM COMING IN FROM FLORIDA!!!

John

Oh trust me, i understand the frustration..  I'm in the midst of some head scratching here myself.. and, like i had mentioned, i see more than a few things that don't quite add up, even if other discussions i have had might perfectly make sense.

I do believe though that there is a way for both sides of the overall discussion to come to a conclusion that make sense, but doesn't over-reach or only offer up discouraging challenges that may have come about based on some degree of relatively baseless fearful thought. 

With coconuts, id think there would be some sort of way to certify the seeds so that they can be distributed there.. maybe someone close to the border starts them in a soil-less mix before allowing them to come across?? idk, Perhaps it is a matter of just voting out those who don't / won't listen and maybe amend within reason..

Regardless, change can happen.. just a matter of getting the momentum up to speed.. 

-Nathan

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10 hours ago, Estlander said:

True that! The beaches here are amazing.  These are some of the pics I’ve taken. And no photo editing of any kind. 

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That is like South Beach or Fort Lauderdale. If I was civically involved there I would head over to FL and buy a car load of coco palms and plant them at public places near the beach and since they survive in Honolulu with 20" of rain of year I'm sure they would do okay along the beachfront. They love sand. And then harvest the coconuts and plant more and more till it looks like South Beach. It would do wonders and I would certainly visit. I just came back from Fort Lauderdale and coco palms line the entire beachfront right in the sand on the beach. South Padre would be a much bigger destination in spring summer and fall, I'm telling you. People see coco palms swaying in the breeze and think tropical vacation!!

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6 hours ago, Mr. Coconut Palm said:

As a former diver that just does snorkeling now, I love clear blue water, so where exactly were these photos taken at?

John

Hey John,

 

My bad I thought that real blue water was from SPI. I have never seen pics from SPI on calm days when it probably looks best. Do you have any?

 

To me, the really disappointing subtropical US beaches are South Carolina and Georgia. Hilton Head has this high end great rep, but everytime I have been there the water was murky brown. Georgia,  even Cumberland Island was worse. Looked like river water. i would never swim in it. The best beaches are in North Carolina. Clear blue water and warm.

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Someone needs to start field planting Beccariophoenix alfredii in the RGV...it's already being done with royals and foxtails (which explains the explosion in their abundance recently). The higher risk with coconuts for the grower is understandable and effective market is also smaller. Not going to see mass plantings of coconuts anytime soon, but more specimens would be a welcome site. I think (I hope) we are in for a string of mild winters. 

Edited by Xenon
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Jonathan

Katy, TX (Zone 9a)

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2 hours ago, Xenon said:

Someone needs to start field planting Beccariophoenix alfredii in the RGV...it's already being done with royals and foxtails (which explains the explosion in their abundance recently). The higher risk with coconuts for the grower is understandable and effective market is also smaller. Not going to see mass plantings of coconuts anytime soon, but more specimens would be a welcome site. I think (I hope) we are in for a string of mild winters. 

Agree with both your points Xenon, and yes, Alfredii would be great for extending the desired "look" to more areas there. Wonder how Kentiopsis O would fare there. 

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11 hours ago, Xenon said:

Someone needs to start field planting Beccariophoenix alfredii in the RGV...it's already being done with royals and foxtails (which explains the explosion in their abundance recently). The higher risk with coconuts for the grower is understandable and effective market is also smaller. Not going to see mass plantings of coconuts anytime soon, but more specimens would be a welcome site. I think (I hope) we are in for a string of mild winters. 

Jonathan,

While I have nothing against Beccariophoenix alfredii per se, there really is NO SUBSTITUTE for the real deal Coconut Palm in my opinion!  I honestly believe that the pure Mexican Tall, Maypan Hybrid, Green Hawaiian Tall, and Green Malayan Dwarf are long term viable in the Lower Rio Grande Valley, especially in Cameron County, and should be widely planted there, and should even be commercially grown (at least for the nursery and landscaping industry, if not nut production itself to a limited extent) in the Brownsville area!

John

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On 5/18/2018, 7:01:46, Mr. Coconut Palm said:

Jonathan,

While I have nothing against Beccariophoenix alfredii per se, there really is NO SUBSTITUTE for the real deal Coconut Palm in my opinion! 

That and the fact that B. alfredii are 3 to 4x slower to grow than coconuts.

Long term, nice. The alfredii is the next canariensis. However, nothing like the growth speed and gratification of a cocos nucifera.

 

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5 year high 42.2C/108F (07/06/2018)--5 year low 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)--Lowest recent/current winter: 4.6C/40.3F (1/19/2023)

 

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On ‎5‎/‎18‎/‎2018‎ ‎1‎:‎49‎:‎44‎, Estlander said:

 

Wow, that is quite a bit colder, compared to even northern FL Gulf coast water temps. at latitude 30N. 

 

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Andre,

Wow!  That is a lot warmer than I thought the Florida Panhandle waters were in January!  I thought the water temps at the beach around Panama City Beach and Destin were in the 57F to 58F range.  The average you posted of 62.8F is what I thought the beach water temps are around St. Petersburg in January.  Maybe with Climate Change, the water temps are significantly increasing there!  Here, our beach water temp just reached 87F according to the weather segment on one of our local stations!  That is WAY ABOVE NORMAL for the end of May!  Normally, our Gulf beach water temps this time of year would be 80F!

John

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2 hours ago, Mr. Coconut Palm said:

Andre,

Wow!  That is a lot warmer than I thought the Florida Panhandle waters were in January!  I thought the water temps at the beach around Panama City Beach and Destin were in the 57F to 58F range.  The average you posted of 62.8F is what I thought the beach water temps are around St. Petersburg in January.  Maybe with Climate Change, the water temps are significantly increasing there!  Here, our beach water temp just reached 87F according to the weather segment on one of our local stations!  That is WAY ABOVE NORMAL for the end of May!  Normally, our Gulf beach water temps this time of year would be 80F!

John

Wow, 87F is warm for May, if true. seatemperature.org website gives 83F for Corpus Christi water temp.

But what's interesting is that Destin 82F is warmer right now than Clearwater 80F, Tampa 79F and Miami 80F. FL panhandle has the warmest water temperatures in Florida right now. Although that's probably from all the rain they've been getting down there lately. That usually lowers water temps. by a couple of degrees.

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On ‎5‎/‎27‎/‎2018‎ ‎12‎:‎58‎:‎43‎, Estlander said:

Wow, 87F is warm for May, if true. seatemperature.org website gives 83F for Corpus Christi water temp.

But what's interesting is that Destin 82F is warmer right now than Clearwater 80F, Tampa 79F and Miami 80F. FL panhandle has the warmest water temperatures in Florida right now. Although that's probably from all the rain they've been getting down there lately. That usually lowers water temps. by a couple of degrees.

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Andre,

Another local tv station was reporting our beach water temp as 84F or 85F the other day, but now I think they are reporting it as around 83F, which is still unusually warm for this early in the season!

John

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