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Sabal causiarum-potential for temperate landscapes


Kekoanui

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Can someone explain why Sabal causiarum is not more widely planted in places like North Florida?  I've known about this impressive Sabal for years but have never seen them grown for the nursery trade.  I understand they are moderately fast growers, too. I first spotted them at Bok Tower Gardens in Lake Wales.  And more recently at Mounts Botanical Garden.  

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My impression - which may be wrong - is that most nurseries don't find it profitable to grow Sabals. They are too slow, too similar and lack the "wow" factor that customers, i.e., the palm ignorati ("Foxxxtaillls, I want Foxxxtaills") imagine as the centerpiece for their overfertilized front lawns. Even the fastest Sabal can't keep up with a skaggy queen or a weedy Adonidia. And remember that the vast majority of people can only imagine palms in their pinnate form. There are people on this forum that won't allow a palmate species near their property. So, yeah, majestic and tough as they are even after shaking off effects of Hurricane Irma, Sabals remain the red-headed step children of palms.

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Meg

Palms of Victory I shall wear

Cape Coral (It's Just Paradise)
Florida
Zone 10A on the Isabelle Canal
Elevation: 15 feet

I'd like to be under the sea in an octopus' garden in the shade.

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I see some trees labeled as just "Sabal palm" with no specific scientific name. But most of the time they are just Sabal palmetto. I agree with PalmatierMeg. It is sad that there are not more rare palms grown commercially and in local nursery. 

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PalmTreeDude

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Yup I have wondered as well why S. causiarum are so under represented in South Florida both east and west. Stately and vertical growing they would be ideal to line avenues, walkways and many other landscaping applications, similar to the uses of Royals. Bizzies seem to have taken the potential niche of these palms.

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Bizzies are fast and the silver ones quite eye-catching. Even people who hate palmate palms can be taken by them. Unfortunately, our native palm weevil likes them better than Sabals and is destroying them wherever they grow.

Sabals (palmettos) planted as avenue/median trees are taken from land that is cleared for development and road widening projects, i.e., from the wild, not grown in nurseries. Other trunking Sabals: causiarum, domingensis, maritima, mauritiaformis, etc., aren't native to FL, not grown in nurseries so not planted. Trying to replant mature non-trunking Sabals is probably economically unfeasible because of the high death rate.

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Meg

Palms of Victory I shall wear

Cape Coral (It's Just Paradise)
Florida
Zone 10A on the Isabelle Canal
Elevation: 15 feet

I'd like to be under the sea in an octopus' garden in the shade.

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I grow causarium because it is a viable 8b/9a giant fan palm and are one of the fastest growing sabals but must admit i prefer a silver bismarckia over any sabal. 

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these grow slowly in containers like most sabals.  I suspect that is part of the reason they arent planted more.  The longer it takes to grow, the more expensive to a nursery.  Once in the ground, many sabals establish roots and can grow fairly quickly.  In containers, not so fast.  Digging them up and transplanting is expensive so that could discourage big sabal transplants.  I had two domingensis same size, same source as 4" x4" x 14' nursery pot strap leaf seedlings.  I kept one in a pot and one went into the ground.  3 1/2 years later, the one in the ground was 12' overall and the one in the container was 3 1/2- 4'.  I gave it to a forum member who put it in the ground and it pretty much exploded, growing 3'+; a year.  Sabals put down big roots before the growth up top peaks.  Landscapers and many homeowners that want that "instant palm", that looks good on the first day its planted.  These palms are worth waiting a few years for, they should be planted more.  

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Formerly in Gilbert AZ, zone 9a/9b. Now in Palmetto, Florida Zone 9b/10a??

 

Tom Blank

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  • 1 year later...

Mr.SamuraiSword.:

I've known of that Pine Island "Causiarium" in the left photo for many years. In fact, back in 2000 when I first saw it, there was another one next to it the same size. I've always called them S. domengensis though because of the wider spread and deeper green leaves. I've recently sprouted some seeds (sent to me by a friend) from this palm and will pot them up in the spring 2019. 

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Here's my NW Florida causiarum .... the only one I know of up here.

20181124_133102.jpg

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David Simms zone 9a on Highway 30a

200 steps from the Gulf in NW Florida

30 ft. elevation and sandy soil

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Most nurseries that I have seen that field grow them are pricey per foot of clear trunk. In the range of $100-200 per foot for the regenerated ones. All of us palm people like them, it's just a hard sell to the average person who moves here from up North and wants a palm for cheap. 

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6 hours ago, howfam said:

Mr.SamuraiSword.:

I've known of that Pine Island "Causiarium" in the left photo for many years. In fact, back in 2000 when I first saw it, there was another one next to it the same size. I've always called them S. domengensis though because of the wider spread and deeper green leaves. I've recently sprouted some seeds (sent to me by a friend) from this palm and will pot them up in the spring 2019. 

awesome! a 2007 streetview shows the other palm dead with the trunk still there

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There was a 50 footer on the UF campus so they must be somewhat cold hardy. Trunks are very similar to Royals in size and thickness. Mysterious lack of use!

What you look for is what is looking

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Mr.SamuraiSword.:

Yes, both were about the same size, and I don't know what killed the other one. BTW, is it domengensis or causiarum? 

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Still one of my favorites in my garden. Fills the greeny fast though. 

63AB4BD3-49C9-459A-9DCB-D135085B935B.jpeg

3D47BAAA-A760-4A9C-8CCD-3FA83B4BE1E6.jpeg

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"it's not dead it's sleeping"

Santee ca, zone10a/9b

18 miles from the ocean

avg. winter 68/40.avg summer 88/64.records 113/25

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Revisited this topic. David, beautiful palm and your shorts shout Gator! Steve, beautiful palm but that picture will be one to always remember!

What you look for is what is looking

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Thanks ...but I'm an FSU alumni ...lol

David Simms zone 9a on Highway 30a

200 steps from the Gulf in NW Florida

30 ft. elevation and sandy soil

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Actually I find my causiarum is catching up to my bizzie.  The bizzie started as a 4' tall 15 gallon palm in early summer 2010 while the causiarum started out a strap leaf seedling in summer 2011.  I think the whole speed of growth is not so relevant,  A small bismarckia looks like what it is.  A small causiarum may look like a number of other sabals.  I do think the market is driven by big box store choices and bizzies sell.

Causiarumvsbismarckia.jpg

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Formerly in Gilbert AZ, zone 9a/9b. Now in Palmetto, Florida Zone 9b/10a??

 

Tom Blank

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On ‎11‎/‎24‎/‎2018‎ ‎11‎:‎30‎:‎51‎, howfam said:

Mr.SamuraiSword.:

I've known of that Pine Island "Causiarium" in the left photo for many years. In fact, back in 2000 when I first saw it, there was another one next to it the same size. I've always called them S. domengensis though because of the wider spread and deeper green leaves. I've recently sprouted some seeds (sent to me by a friend) from this palm and will pot them up in the spring 2019. 

The other one was killed by Hurricane Charley

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Palms not just a tree also a state of mind

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The Florida highway department has been using some in some plantings west of Orlando along the Turnpike and south of Disney along the 429 near I4. Hopefully some will get used in the new I4 plantings in Orlando.

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Eric

Orlando, FL

zone 9b/10a

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Eric in Orlando:

Do you have exact locations on I-4 and turnpike where the S. causiarums  are planted. I'd like to see them on street view. / Howfam 

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  • 11 months later...
On 11/24/2018 at 8:14 PM, Stevetoad said:

Still one of my favorites in my garden. Fills the greeny fast though. 

63AB4BD3-49C9-459A-9DCB-D135085B935B.jpeg

3D47BAAA-A760-4A9C-8CCD-3FA83B4BE1E6.jpeg

That thing is a monster. Any updates/additional photos from you or Sonoranfans?

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23 minutes ago, Meangreen94z said:

That thing is a monster. Any updates/additional photos from you or Sonoranfans?

I agree @Stevetoad  Steve can you get the whole palm in a pic haha

I love seeing @sonoranfans Bizzie next to Causiarum which has a much larger trunk comparatively :yay:

T J 

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2 hours ago, Meangreen94z said:

That thing is a monster. Any updates/additional photos from you or Sonoranfans?

It’s almost completely dark out so this was a good excuse to try the night mode on the iPhone 11 pro. Came out like it was still sunny out. I’ve built my son a fort that makes it hard to get the whole thing in the shot. I trimmed 4 leaves off today and filled a green trash. It is a beast though. 

F9B2E8FA-FD7D-4314-B85D-8E33EA861A66.jpeg

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"it's not dead it's sleeping"

Santee ca, zone10a/9b

18 miles from the ocean

avg. winter 68/40.avg summer 88/64.records 113/25

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On 12/1/2018 at 1:38 PM, howfam said:

Eric in Orlando:

Do you have exact locations on I-4 and turnpike where the S. causiarums  are planted. I'd like to see them on street view. / Howfam 

I'm not sure there are any on I-4, unfortunately. They did put in about 150 Trachycarpus with 10' of trunk around exit 77, almost all of which immediately died.

The big Sabals are on the turnpike near that huge interchange with all the palms, I think it's where 408/SR 50 come in.

Woodville, FL

zone 8b

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9 hours ago, Stevetoad said:

It’s almost completely dark out so this was a good excuse to try the night mode on the iPhone 11 pro. Came out like it was still sunny out. I’ve built my son a fort that makes it hard to get the whole thing in the shot. I trimmed 4 leaves off today and filled a green trash. It is a beast though. 

F9B2E8FA-FD7D-4314-B85D-8E33EA861A66.jpeg

 That's gotta be getting some clear trunk by now. What's the diameter! Man I love that palm. :greenthumb:

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  • 1 month later...

Here are Sabal causiarum in Augusta, GA.  Zone 8.  They have gone through 11F and 14F and recovered quickly.  Our usual low is above 20F.  They have also been snowed on and iced.  Perhaps the big thing is that it rarely stays below 32F for a whole day.  There are three in one place - all above 18'.  Others on the same property were planted later and are growing quite well.  Great palm.

GPKDkdMnTHGBlFb8Ur74%A.jpg

9gUWIkZRTSmUn64u%BWYPw.jpg

e4IPwhBdQlSxwWf199604g.jpg

IMG_1489.JPG

kDpjneAJRAO2BmtdxwsmWg.jpg

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Joseph C. Le Vert

Augusta, GA

USA

Zone 8

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:yay: Absolutely stunning palms my favorite Sabal without a doubt , great growing :greenthumb: specimen palms you have there 

T J 

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On 11/17/2019 at 5:11 PM, Stevetoad said:

It’s almost completely dark out so this was a good excuse to try the night mode on the iPhone 11 pro. Came out like it was still sunny out. I’ve built my son a fort that makes it hard to get the whole thing in the shot. I trimmed 4 leaves off today and filled a green trash. It is a beast though. 

F9B2E8FA-FD7D-4314-B85D-8E33EA861A66.jpeg

I just love this pic. Teaching your children well. He is Mowgli in your Jungle Book backyard. I hope there is no Shere Kahn around...

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Kim Cyr

Between the beach and the bays, Point Loma, San Diego, California USA
and on a 300 year-old lava flow, Pahoa, Hawaii, 1/4 mile from the 2018 flow
All characters  in this work are fictitious. Any resemblance to real persons, living or dead, is purely coincidental.

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1 hour ago, Kim said:

I just love this pic. Teaching your children well. He is Mowgli in your Jungle Book backyard. I hope there is no Shere Kahn around...

I must use him to much. Anytime I tell him to stand somewhere in the yard he says “ is this for palmtalk?”

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"it's not dead it's sleeping"

Santee ca, zone10a/9b

18 miles from the ocean

avg. winter 68/40.avg summer 88/64.records 113/25

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  • 1 year later...
On 12/27/2019 at 4:05 PM, JLeVert said:

Here are Sabal causiarum in Augusta, GA.  Zone 8.  They have gone through 11F and 14F and recovered quickly.  Our usual low is above 20F.  They have also been snowed on and iced.  Perhaps the big thing is that it rarely stays below 32F for a whole day.  There are three in one place - all above 18'.  Others on the same property were planted later and are growing quite well.  Great palm.

GPKDkdMnTHGBlFb8Ur74%A.jpg

9gUWIkZRTSmUn64u%BWYPw.jpg

e4IPwhBdQlSxwWf199604g.jpg

IMG_1489.JPG

kDpjneAJRAO2BmtdxwsmWg.jpg

Have these seen any temperatures below 10F?

What kind of cold damage have they experienced?

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They had a lot of foliage burn around 12°F. That’s the coldest they’ve ever experienced. They recovered quickly. 

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Joseph C. Le Vert

Augusta, GA

USA

Zone 8

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On 1/5/2021 at 7:28 PM, JLeVert said:

They had a lot of foliage burn around 12°F. That’s the coldest they’ve ever experienced. They recovered quickly. 

I'll have to try growing these and just hope for the best.

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