Sabal minor in habitat, McCurtain County, OK

[jfrye01@live.com]

Back in November of 2016, my fiancee and I embarked on a six hour road trip to McCurtain County, Oklahoma, in search of native Sabal minor.  About 20 miles southeast of Idabel, there they were, growing in ditches, in pastures, in woods...they truly are weeds down there. Here are some pictures, enjoy!! 

 

[GeorgiaPalms]

Great photos! Thanks for sharing. 

[Zifool]

Woot some nice pictures, there is real sabal in mc curtain

[Brad Mondel]

Nice to see them in habitat. Were they in a protected area?

[jfrye01@live.com]

3 hours ago, Brad Mondel said:

Nice to see them in habitat. Were they in a protected area?

Some were within the Ouachita National Forest, but most of them were scattered every which way, from valleys, to hilltops, anywhere and everywhere. There were volunteer seedlings popping up everywhere like weeds...it was beautiful!

[jfrye01@live.com]

10 hours ago, GeorgiaPalms said:

Great photos! Thanks for sharing. 

No problem! It was a fun discovery. 

[JLeVert]

Do you know what the pH of the soil in that area is?  There is some speculation that S. minor prefers a slightly less acid soil.

[Brad Mondel]

Glad to hear at least some are protected. Did you find any seeds or pull up seedlings from the unprotected areas?

[Zifool]

4 hours ago, JLeVert said:

Do you know what the pH of the soil in that area is?  There is some speculation that S. minor prefers a slightly less acid soil.

Probably around 5-6

http://www.bonap.org/2008_Soil/pH20110321.png

Edited February 15, 2017 by Zifool

[Jimhardy]

Thanks for the pics and info...

one of the truly remarkable cold hardy palms,mine has

been unheated for at least 3 years now and with only a rose

cone over it for cover,it is still green-even after a low of -13F!

 

It has been uncovered for a few days (this time) and is looking great

esp compared too S.Lou...my S.Brazoria also looks pretty good and

last I recall is still green as well-  Amazingly hardy palms!

[jfrye01@live.com]

9 hours ago, Brad Mondel said:

Glad to hear at least some are protected. Did you find any seeds or pull up seedlings from the unprotected areas?

I did not, but I did grab a few seeds, so far, 7 of them have germinated...they're slow slow slow, as expected! I talked to Bryan in Oklahoma City today, apparently there are a bunch of them within the confines of Red Slough Wildlife Area as well.  

[jfrye01@live.com]

5 hours ago, Jimhardy said:

Thanks for the pics and info...

one of the truly remarkable cold hardy palms,mine has

been unheated for at least 3 years now and with only a rose

cone over it for cover,it is still green-even after a low of -13F!

 

It has been uncovered for a few days (this time) and is looking great

esp compared too S.Lou...my S.Brazoria also looks pretty good and

last I recall is still green as well-  Amazingly hardy palms!

They truly are tough!! Glad yours are doing well! Brazoria is another one I'm going to experiment with, I have a strapling grown from seed collected in Wichita, should be super tough once mature! 

[WestCoastGal]

Enjoyed the pics. Thanks for sharing. 

[PalmTreeDude]

Dang, they are everywhere! That is nice. Thanks for sharing!

[jfrye01@live.com]

16 hours ago, PalmTreeDude said:

Dang, they are everywhere! That is nice. Thanks for sharing!

You're very welcome! They are indeed everywhere.  At first, they're hard to find, but once you find them, suddenly they're everywhere.  I couldn't help but have my fiance snap my picture in the middle of that grove...lol

[Plantasexoticas]

Great pictures, so nice to see palms in habitat. 

Slightly off topic but seen as there are lots of knowledgable Palm enthusiasts here  - I collected seeds from a Sabal minor in a garden - one had germinated and currently pushing up its second strap leave. Question is - do sabal hybridise with each other as its just occurred to me that there were no other sabal minor next to the fruiting one but there were lots of other sabal species. 

Thanks, James

[Ben OK]

Thanks for the post. I enjoyed all of your pictures. 

I drove through McCurtain county between Christmas 2012 and New Year 2013, and I was able to check out the wild Sabal minor as well. I noticed a lot of the same things you did. They aren't all over the place and there are lots of places that looked like great habitat...but had nothing. Once you found them through, they were everywhere in those localized areas. (In the woods, pastures, ditches, etc)

If I get a chance I will post some of my pics from that trip in this thread. I am brand new to palmtalk, but I've been reading here for a while. Posts like these (palms in native habitat) are some of my favorites.

[Brad Mondel]

They're probabaly ancient relics of the past when the coast used to be much further inland. It's amazing how they're still clinging on to survival despite the cold. What an astonishing palm. 

[PalmTreeDude]

After seeing this thread, it really makes me think about the possibility of them being native to southern Virginia Beach. McCurtian county is just barely in zone 8a. I even think Virginia Beach is generally a little warmer. I was there just a while back and I remember seeing one that looked naturalized, it was right by a wire fence growing up against it. The reason I say naturalized is because there were a lot of planted Sabal minor at a house just a about an acre away from it. But it did not looked maintained at all. It looked very healthy. I did not get a picture because I was on the road, but I got a solid look at it (at a stop light). 

[TexasColdHardyPalms]

Idabel, OK dropped to 5-6F this January, and gets cold every year. Single digit temps aren't that rare for the area and I don't know why it is listed as usda 8a on the interactive map. Most of the DFW metroplex is 8a and we are a lot more than 3F warmer on average lows than the idabel area.  

[kinzyjr]

@jfrye01@live.com

Thank you for the wonderful pictures of one of my favorite palms.

[Ben OK]

Here are some pics of Sabal minor in McCurtain County from 4 years ago:

 

[PalmTreeDude]

17 hours ago, TexasColdHardyPalms said:

Idabel, OK dropped to 5-6F this January, and gets cold every year. Single digit temps aren't that rare for the area and I don't know why it is listed as usda 8a on the interactive map. Most of the DFW metroplex is 8a and we are a lot more than 3F warmer on average lows than the idabel area.  

Here in Virgina, the coldest I have EVER seen it get, in my 10 years of living here, was 3 degrees F. And Sabal minor grow native places where it gets 5 degrees F? Dang! 

[Andy8201]

Great pics, I'm jealous, just can't pull that off in MI in the ground

 

[kinzyjr]

On 2/23/2017, 4:17:17, PalmTreeDude said:

Here in Virgina, the coldest I have EVER seen it get, in my 10 years of living here, was 3 degrees F. And Sabal minor grow native places where it gets 5 degrees F? Dang! 

The record low in Eagletown, OK is 0F.  They are native there, so you should be fine in most years.

[jfrye01@live.com]

On 2/22/2017, 11:07:21, Ben OK said:

Here are some pics of Sabal minor in McCurtain County from 4 years ago:

 

Very nice shots! Looks like we both came across one of the same stands...:) 

[jfrye01@live.com]

On 2/23/2017, 3:17:17, PalmTreeDude said:

Here in Virgina, the coldest I have EVER seen it get, in my 10 years of living here, was 3 degrees F. And Sabal minor grow native places where it gets 5 degrees F? Dang! 

Wichita, KS goes below zero once every few years, I've seen Sabal minor and Sabal louisiana come through that completely untouched here...they're tougher than given credit for.

[PalmTreeDude]

On 2/26/2017, 12:29:43, jfrye01@live.com said:

Wichita, KS goes below zero once every few years, I've seen Sabal minor and Sabal louisiana come through that completely untouched here...they're tougher than given credit for.

Ok, thats it, a Sabal minor is going in the ground here this spring for sure. 

[jfrye01@live.com]

On 2/28/2017, 3:15:49, PalmTreeDude said:

Ok, thats it, a Sabal minor is going in the ground here this spring for sure. 

Go for it! I'm a zone colder than you (on the edge of 6b/7a) and they do just fine here!

[TexasColdHardyPalms]

I took these pics today. Several of these were way off the beaten path.  

[kinzyjr]

@TexasColdHardyPalms Wow, looks like back home in the Appalachians with all the deciduous hardwoods, but with palms

[TexasColdHardyPalms]

2 hours ago, kinzyjr said:

@TexasColdHardyPalms Wow, looks like back home in the Appalachians with all the deciduous hardwoods, but with palms

I found four lonely soldiers under thick pine coverage several miles away deep in the woods. Pine needles were 8-12" deep in that spot. Thought i had a pic but doesnt look like it took. 

[kinzyjr]

On 11/24/2017, 7:36:20, TexasColdHardyPalms said:

I found four lonely soldiers under thick pine coverage several miles away deep in the woods. Pine needles were 8-12" deep in that spot. Thought i had a pic but doesnt look like it took. 

Happen to snag any seeds?

[TexasColdHardyPalms]

3 hours ago, kinzyjr said:

Happen to snag any seeds?

You bet I did... 

[Darold Petty]

TexasColdHardy;  The photos show that many of the palms are under some canopy and the larger trees appear to be deciduous.  Is this correct, and are the palms in lower light levels during summer ?  Thanks,

[TexasColdHardyPalms]

Correct, the majority of the population is under a thick deciduous canopy.  I did see 4 that were under thick pine with much lower light conditions during the winter as well.  The ones native to Dallas are under the same type of deciduous canopy but the ones in Houston are under very tall pines. If I remember correctly the big native clump near Alexandra, LA is also under an even thicker deciduous canopy and is partially submerged in water for a few months of the year.

[Darold Petty]

Thanks for the info !   

[Brad Mondel]

Sabal minor thrives in swamp water all winter in parts of LA. Incredible that they don’t rot like some other species would. 

[PalmTreeDude]

Does anyone know if Sabal minor grow naturally in Choctaw County Oklahoma? The southern part of the county is zone 8a (and I know Sabal minor have been seen growing naturally in 7b in Alabama). It also is along the Red River, which I know Sabal minor follow. So it seems like a good climate for them. 

Edited July 23, 2018 by PalmTreeDude
Typo

[TexasColdHardyPalms]

Nope they are not in choctaw. They are a few east over in arkansas though. 

100% of the minor found naturally agrowing winin the new usda 8a zone.