Corona ca Coconut

[GottmitAlex]

20 minutes ago, awkonradi said:

Alex, Thank you for this update!

 

I have been very interested in it as well. 

http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?/topic/51903-corona-ca-coconut/&do=findComment&comment=917018

 

I guess I wanted to capture it red-handed.  Make sure it wasn't being babied throughout its winters.  Now I know it is growing by accidental circumstances. 

I guess someone hacks off the dead leaves now and then as if it were a washingtonia (leaving its leaf bases attached)...

 

Edited January 3, 2020 by GottmitAlex

[mnorell]

Thank you, Alex, for making that long trek to photograph this beautiful Cocos. I can't believe it looks so good, considering how consistently chilly it has been for the last six weeks! (And definitely more so in Corona than in the Coachella Valley). I'm glad we now have current pictures of two prominent long-term coconuts in inland SoCal with "acceptable" appearance. They may not look quite as good as they do in the Florida or the tropics, but they are good enough!

Interesting that there is barely any exposed soil-surface, and I would imagine most of the root-zone is on the dry side. Perhaps a clue, in part, to its success?

[GottmitAlex]

33.8°  latitude might I add.

 

 

[sandgroper]

1 hour ago, GottmitAlex said:

33.8°  latitude might I add.

 

 

Crickey, that's pretty good going, it's a great looking coconut especially at that latitude, almost a full 2 degrees further from the equator than mine.

Edited January 3, 2020 by sandgroper

[greysrigging]

56 minutes ago, sandgroper said:

Crickey, that's pretty good going, it's a great looking coconut especially at that latitude, almost a full 2 degrees further from the equator than mine.

Yeah it sure is ! Hard to imagine a Coconut growing south of Bunbury.....

Edited January 3, 2020 by greysrigging
spelling

[bubba]

I fully admit that the La Quinta and Corona coconut demonstrate that rather steady freezing temperatures can be offset by large quantities of heat. This sets my understanding of conditions necessary for Cocos nucifera on my ear! I am hopeful that landscapers will put the coconut to full use, particularly in the desert.

[PalmTreeDude]

It looks so healthy too. Thanks for the updated and up close pictures. I am sure it enjoys the Southern California sun! 

Edited January 4, 2020 by PalmTreeDude

[GottmitAlex]

7 minutes ago, bubba said:

I fully admit that the La Quinta and Corona coconut demonstrate that rather steady freezing temperatures can be offset by large quantities of heat. This sets my understanding of conditions necessary for Cocos nucifera on my ear! I am hopeful that landscapers will put the coconut to full use, particularly in the desert.

Hear, hear. I don't know much about the la Quinta, but the Corona coco gets snow, sleet and hail every year. That's why the maintenance guy didnt beleive it is a coconut. He said to me(in Spanish) : "I'm from centroamerica (central America), I know coconuts, this is not a coconut. Coconuts have clean trunks and have....wait for it.. coconuts"  (the wait for it part was my emphasis).  I know it's due to latitude by which these two factors are absent. 

[NOT A TA]

On 1/2/2020 at 8:34 PM, GottmitAlex said:

It's 2 hours and change driving down from Corona to my haus. (Without any traffic).

Was this a pilgrimage just to visit the Corona Coco? Great pics BTW.

[NOT A TA]

1 hour ago, bubba said:

I am hopeful that landscapers will put the coconut to full use

Not likely due to guarantees.

[GottmitAlex]

30 minutes ago, NOT A TA said:

Was this a pilgrimage just to visit the Corona Coco? Great pics BTW.

Nope. You got me. We went to Big Bear for new years. mein Frau asked to stop by a walmart on the way back (post-Christmas specials, I assume)  I immediately thought of Corona,CA. And it so happens there is a mega/Super Walmart in Corona (East Ontario Ave) so we took a slight detour. 

Like the song says: "It's now or never.."

We could have hit the Walmart at the base of Big bear mountain (Redlands, CA) just after our descent.

But no. I wanted to see it first hand!

verstehen?comprende?

 

 

Edited January 4, 2020 by GottmitAlex

[pin38]

59 minutes ago, GottmitAlex said:

Hear, hear. I don't know much about the la Quinta, but the Corona coco gets snow, sleet and hail every year. That's why the maintenance guy didnt beleive it is a coconut. He said to me(in Spanish) : "I'm from centroamerica (central America), I know coconuts, this is not a coconut. Coconuts have clean trunks and have....wait for it.. coconuts"  (the wait for it part was my emphasis).  I know it's due to latitude by which these two factors are absent. 

Yeah don't most coconut palms in Bermuda lack coconuts because of the latitude and relatively cool temps?

[GottmitAlex]

7 minutes ago, pin38 said:

Yeah don't most coconut palms in Bermuda lack coconuts because of the latitude and relatively cool temps?

I dunno.  But this central-American landscaper, who was reluctant and quite apprehensive to answer my questions, (who I thought was of Mexican descent), did not believe it was a coconut. 

It is a coconut. 

Just as the Mexicali coconut, it aborts the seeds because of the constant freezes. 

However the attached leaf bases are a mystery.

[mnorell]

1 hour ago, GottmitAlex said:

I don't know much about the la Quinta, but the Corona coco gets snow, sleet and hail every year... 

I don't know about sleet and hail, but at a bit under 1000ft elevation, the populated areas of Corona aren't high enough to receive snow every year. It has snowed there in the past (as it has in most SoCal areas such as San Diego, Malibu, et al.) but the lowest snow levels have been I think at about 3000-4000 ft this year. Certainly in La Quinta and the Coachella Valley no locations under 1000 ft have received snow, though it has been amazingly low a couple of times! Corona is just a little colder than the Coachella Valley in winter, but intermediate in spring between the chilly coastal belt and the low desert. "May Grey"/"June Gloom" occurs but it is less pervasive and clears earlier in the day since it is so far inland. Still, it is amazing that this Cocos not only has survived but looks as good as it does! 

[GottmitAlex]

5 minutes ago, mnorell said:

I don't know about sleet and hail, but at a bit under 1000ft elevation, the populated areas of Corona aren't high enough to receive snow every year. 

From my understanding it's a Cali 9A USDA zone.  Could very well be a 9b.

 

Edited January 4, 2020 by GottmitAlex

[NOT A TA]

25 minutes ago, GottmitAlex said:

However the attached leaf bases are a mystery.

I'd tend to agree with what someone else mentioned. Without the regular precipitation to keep the leaf bases wet they don't fall off. In a way it's a good thing as they're like an insulating blanket surrounding the trunk.

[GottmitAlex]

12 minutes ago, mnorell said:

I don't know about sleet and hail, but at a bit under 1000ft elevation, the populated areas of Corona aren't high enough to receive snow every year. It has snowed there in the past (as it has in most SoCal areas such as San Diego, Malibu, et al.) 

The last time it snowed in San Diego proper was in 1968.

 

Edited January 4, 2020 by GottmitAlex

[mnorell]

1 hour ago, GottmitAlex said:

The last time it snowed in San Diego proper was in 1968.

 

It was actually 1967 and I experienced it first-hand! I was in kindergarten and I remember they let us out of class to experience it, and the flakes melted as soon as they hit the ground.

But as with most lower-elevation areas of SoCal including Corona, my point was just that snow does not occur every year at those elevations, it is quite rare though it does occur from time to time.  And generally in the foothill areas above 1000 feet even in the coldest events. It is very rare for it to fall below that, and almost never accumulates there. There was a famous snowfall in 1932 in SoCal and there are pictures of students building snowmen at UCLA in front of Powell Library. It was about 2" that fell that day, the largest amount ever recorded in L.A.

[GottmitAlex]

18 hours ago, mnorell said:

It was actually 1967 and I experienced it first-hand! I was in kindergarten and I remember they let us out of class to experience it, and the flakes melted as soon as they hit the ground.

But as with most lower-elevation areas of SoCal including Corona, my point was just that snow does not occur every year at those elevations, it is quite rare though it does occur from time to time.  And generally in the foothill areas above 1000 feet even in the coldest events. It is very rare for it to fall below that, and almost never accumulates there. There was a famous snowfall in 1932 in SoCal and there are pictures of students building snowmen at UCLA in front of Powell Library. It was about 2" that fell that day, the largest amount ever recorded in L.A.

Definitely it doesn't show in Corona every year, but it does freeze every yearly: 0C or less. So frost is uncommon there.

[GottmitAlex]

1 hour ago, GottmitAlex said:

Definitely it doesn't show in Corona every year, but it does freeze every yearly: 0C or less. So frost is uncommon there.

Snow*

[Mangosteen]

19 hours ago, mnorell said:

It was actually 1967 and I experienced it first-hand! I was in kindergarten and I remember they let us out of class to experience it, and the flakes melted as soon as they hit the ground.

But as with most lower-elevation areas of SoCal including Corona, my point was just that snow does not occur every year at those elevations, it is quite rare though it does occur from time to time.  And generally in the foothill areas above 1000 feet even in the coldest events. It is very rare for it to fall below that, and almost never accumulates there. There was a famous snowfall in 1932 in SoCal and there are pictures of students building snowmen at UCLA in front of Powell Library. It was about 2" that fell that day, the largest amount ever recorded in L.A.

 

[NOT A TA]

The "snow" discussion here got me to checking on the weather history of snow here where there's lots of Coconuts. I found this though I've never even seen frost in the past 15 winters.

Q: Has it ever snowed in Palm Beach County?
A: People who were here will never forget the events of the morning of Jan. 19, 1977, which were far bigger news that week than the inauguration of Jimmy Carter the following day.
Dawn brought temperatures in the upper 20s and a 40 mph wind. Soon, snowflakes were falling across the county. Normally Florida’s ground radiates enough soaked-up sunshine to discourage formation of snow crystals. But three straight days of record cold had drained Florida Power & Light, leaving 60,000 homes in Palm Beach County without power for at least part of the night as the snow approached.
It began to fall at 6:10 a.m. It even stuck, albeit briefly; weather officials recorded a quarter-inch at Palm Beach International Airport and other parts of the county reported up to a half-inch.

[PalmTreeDude]

54 minutes ago, NOT A TA said:

The "snow" discussion here got me to checking on the weather history of snow here where there's lots of Coconuts. I found this though I've never even seen frost in the past 15 winters.

Q: Has it ever snowed in Palm Beach County?
A: People who were here will never forget the events of the morning of Jan. 19, 1977, which were far bigger news that week than the inauguration of Jimmy Carter the following day.
Dawn brought temperatures in the upper 20s and a 40 mph wind. Soon, snowflakes were falling across the county. Normally Florida’s ground radiates enough soaked-up sunshine to discourage formation of snow crystals. But three straight days of record cold had drained Florida Power & Light, leaving 60,000 homes in Palm Beach County without power for at least part of the night as the snow approached.
It began to fall at 6:10 a.m. It even stuck, albeit briefly; weather officials recorded a quarter-inch at Palm Beach International Airport and other parts of the county reported up to a half-inch.

I can't even imagine Palm Beach County with snow, and the airport!? That is fairly close to the beach! 

[bubba]

Snow flakes in the air all the way to Green Turtle in the Abacos...Just in the air.

[Xenon]

2 hours ago, GottmitAlex said:

Definitely it doesn't show in Corona every year, but it does freeze every yearly: 0C or less. So frost is uncommon there.

Source? A slight change in elevation can mean a significant change in temperature. That coconut is on a slope and has good air drainage. Probably zone 10 the majority of years. 

[Xenon]

Here's the classic coconuts in snow. December 2004 in Brownsville, Texas. Both coconuts survived and at least one of them is still kicking to this day. 

[Silas_Sancona]

7 minutes ago, Xenon said:

Source? A slight change in elevation can mean a significant change in temperature. That coconut is on a slope and has good air drainage. Probably zone 10 the majority of years. 

Thinking you're on to something.. Looking at 2012 Plant Maps data of the area, that area of Corona sits real close to where 10A sneaks into the area ( from the west)... Any decent slope + favorable exposure in that neighborhood would give an extra nudge.  Also.. while I may be completely wrong on exact ID, there appears to be a nice looking Ficus benjamina in the same yard ( to the left of the Coconut/ Majesty / Roebelenii )  in one of the pics. 

Were a touch warmer in my part of Chandler and the few Ficus b's in my neighborhood don't look anywhere as good as this one.. IF that is what it is.  Better pic of it, and the Coconut in a 2011 Google street view.

[Xenon]

20 minutes ago, Silas_Sancona said:

Thinking you're on to something.. Looking at 2012 Plant Maps data of the area, that area of Corona sits real close to where 10A sneaks into the area ( from the west)... Any decent slope + favorable exposure in that neighborhood would give an extra nudge.  Also.. while I may be completely wrong on exact ID, there appears to be a nice looking Ficus benjamina in the same yard ( to the left of the Coconut/ Majesty / Roebelenii )  in one of the pics. 

Were a touch warmer in my part of Chandler and the few Ficus b's in my neighborhood don't look anywhere as good as this one.. IF that is what it is.  Better pic of it, and the Coconut in a 2011 Google street view.

Definitely looks like F. benjamina to me. There was another even bigger (since removed but visible in 2011 street view) one a few houses down at the entrance to the street. 

Edited January 5, 2020 by Xenon

[GottmitAlex]

1 hour ago, Xenon said:

Source? A slight change in elevation can mean a significant change in temperature. That coconut is on a slope and has good air drainage. Probably zone 10 the majority of years. 

I don't live there nor do I know if anyone who does. But going off of historical data, it does frost yearly.

Possibly in that 20ft microclimate the frost dissipates 10 times as fast than others in the city. Who knows....

https://garden.org/apps/frost-dates/Corona%2C+California/

 

Edited January 5, 2020 by GottmitAlex

[Xenon]

2 minutes ago, GottmitAlex said:

I don't live there nor do I know if anyone who does. But going off of historical data, it does frost yearly.

Possibly in that 20ft microclimate the frost dissipates 10 times as fast than others in the city. Who knows....

https://garden.org/apps/frost-dates/Corona%2C+California/

 

That data (and the USDA map) is probably pulled from the nearest airport and is meaningless when accounting for small local changes in topography (colder air sinks; warmer air rises). The Ficus benjamina (not in the "20 ft microclimate") are too nice looking to be seeing a yearly freeze. 

[GottmitAlex]

39 minutes ago, Xenon said:

That data (and the USDA map) is probably pulled from the nearest airport and is meaningless when accounting for small local changes in topography (colder air sinks; warmer air rises). The Ficus benjamina (not in the "20 ft microclimate") are too nice looking to be seeing a yearly freeze. 

[rprimbs]

What I am starting to think is that the temperature of the soil around the roots is one of the most important factors.

Other than a windbreak how much heating is it getting from the house?  But it does have concrete all of the way around the base. 

I am starting to think that the guy -- who posted fancy pictures of various ways of burying coconuts here-- was basically correct.  What simpler way of keeping the roots warmer during the winter?  Yeah, you could "mulch", but I think that soil would insulate better.  And coconuts can handle being buried.

What if you used the 'low tech' method of just growing a coconut to a decent size -- in a greenhouse -- ,planted it in the ground, then every fall buried the base with soil, and covered the top with a couple of layers of frost blankets.

I am going to try it.

[Silas_Sancona]

12 hours ago, Xenon said:

That data (and the USDA map) is probably pulled from the nearest airport and is meaningless when accounting for small local changes in topography (colder air sinks; warmer air rises). The Ficus benjamina (not in the "20 ft microclimate") are too nice looking to be seeing a yearly freeze. 

Your thoughts regarding area topography.. and potential effects of it are spot on.. especially out in CA. Hillside neighborhoods like this tend to drain off a majority of the cold air that might slide off more open/ undeveloped hilltops nearby.

Spent a little time last night and this morning doing an extensive street tour of the overall area.. Quite the diversity of plant material for such a small area, relatively speaking.. While i encountered plenty of what i consider " Nor Cal / Bay Area" street tree selections, based on what i would see planted all over San Jose, plenty of "indicator"- type things that suggest that area has to be closer to 10a rather than a cooler 9b.

Among some of the better stuff to look at, if interested..

Norfolk Island Pines:  Some nice ones here ( 547 Viewtop Ln. ) Saw several bigger specimens scattered around the area as well.

Tall, double King, 741 Viewtop Ln.

Lots ( ..and lots ) of Ravenea rivularis, of almost every size/ height in the neighborhoods there. Big one at 341 Kilworth Dr.  There is also a house with two impressively bulky and tall Majesty framing the entryway. Both look, from street view, to be taller than the 2 story roof line. May look to see if i can find it again. Some other specimens of similar height around other neighborhoods as well.

Decent looking Dypsis decaryi in the yard of the corner house located on the corner of 500 Doheny Cir. / Sedlock Dr.

Quite surprised to not see any Royals anywhere i looked. Would imagine they'd do fine there. 

Regardless, if it isn't already, i'd consider the area borderline 9b/10a.. with a definite 10a lean in recent years. Will be interesting to see what the next update from Plant Maps has to say.

[Xenon]

3 hours ago, Silas_Sancona said:

Regardless, if it isn't already, i'd consider the area borderline 9b/10a.. with a definite 10a lean in recent years. Will be interesting to see what the next update from Plant Maps has to say.

The decent tree size Ficus benjamina impress me more than anything. That Ficus sp. usually gets tip damage in the low 30s and extensive damage in the high 20s.  Large trees in southern TX froze completely to the ground or at least the lower main trunk @ 27-28F. More tender than any of the other common banyan type Ficus like F.  microcarpa, F. elastica, etc.  Even more impressive is how good the Ficus look in 2008 streetview following the 2007 winter (which I assume is the most recent major cold event in SoCal). 

Really doubt that area is 9b at all unless F. benjamina are significantly more hardy in CA conditions. Looks like it hardly ever gets below freezing. 

[Silas_Sancona]

38 minutes ago, Xenon said:

The decent tree size Ficus benjamina impress me more than anything. That Ficus sp. usually gets tip damage in the low 30s and extensive damage in the high 20s.  Large trees in southern TX froze completely to the ground or at least the lower main trunk @ 27-28F. More tender than any of the other common banyan type Ficus like F.  microcarpa, F. elastica, etc.  Even more impressive is how good the Ficus look in 2008 streetview following the 2007 winter (which I assume is the most recent major cold event in SoCal). 

Really doubt that area is 9b at all unless F. benjamina are significantly more hardy in CA conditions. Looks like it hardly ever gets below freezing. 

Agree with that..  Ficus b's are definitely the most telling, especially when everything else is taken into account. Agree w/ you regarding sensitivity to cold also. Heck, lol even indoor-grown specimens can suddenly shed leaves if chilled by a cold draft. That said, the ones planted near me seem to handle our winter cold spells pretty well. Think the reason they're smaller than they could be is simple availability of water during the summer, and that maybe our extreme heat at that time forces the plants to slow down considerably until monsoon season brings rain and raises humidity. No ficus expert though so totally observational thoughts..

While on the smaller side, also found a few Plumeria planted in a few yards in full exposure to the elements also. They too look better than most of the specimens i have seen here planted out in the open in my neighborhood/ others i've seen in town, which honestly aren't many compared to what rumors i have heard regarding other Plumeria growing around Phoenix in the past..

That said, searched again and found the Majesty Palms i'd mentioned earlier. Wouldn't mind having those in front of my house for sure...

[awkonradi]

I just mailed this to Coconut Palm Owner, at the address identified earlier in this thread.

[RJ]

19 hours ago, Silas_Sancona said:

Thinking you're on to something.. Looking at 2012 Plant Maps data of the area, that area of Corona sits real close to where 10A sneaks into the area ( from the west)... Any decent slope + favorable exposure in that neighborhood would give an extra nudge.  Also.. while I may be completely wrong on exact ID, there appears to be a nice looking Ficus benjamina in the same yard ( to the left of the Coconut/ Majesty / Roebelenii )  in one of the pics. 

Were a touch warmer in my part of Chandler and the few Ficus b's in my neighborhood don't look anywhere as good as this one.. IF that is what it is.  Better pic of it, and the Coconut in a 2011 Google street view.

This also might give you some more detailed information, 

 

http://prism.oregonstate.edu/explorer/

[GottmitAlex]

I'm

15 minutes ago, awkonradi said:

I just mailed this to Coconut Palm Owner, at the address identified earlier in this thread.

He probably doesn't know he owns a coconut.

[awkonradi]

2 minutes ago, GottmitAlex said:

I'm

He probably doesn't know he owns a coconut.

I think it's a long shot that he/she will reply, but if you knocked on the door, and I mailed this, then it's everything we can do.

[rprimbs]

I live southwest of the Corona coconut -- considerably southwest.  I know where that is and unless it is some strange small pocket -- which I don't believe it is -- then it is truly 9a-9b.  It is not 10a.  They get frost there, and even a dusting of snow from time to time.

When I lived in Davis California, near Sacramento, people grew bougainvillea on the south side of their houses. Varieties that were cold sensitive.  And they made it through the winter.

I think that perhaps the biggest factors that give that coconut a better chance are the relatively high density development, the proximity to the house, and all of the pavement around the coconut.