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Mystery palm - any idea what it may be?

Jdiaz31089

By Jdiaz31089
in DISCUSSING PALM TREES WORLDWIDE

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Jdiaz31089 Mentor

Jdiaz31089

Posted
Posted

A friend gave me this pretty little thing recently, neither of us really knew what it could be though. At first i thought it looked like a dypsis, but the fiber on the trunk tells me otherwise.  Any thoughts?

 

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20161124_125248.thumb.jpg.ae5a7f883cdc94

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atlantisrising Community Regular

atlantisrising

Posted
Posted

Don't rule out Dypsis just because of the fiber. Fibrosa, pusilla, and crinita all have fiberous hairy trunks. I have the first two and the fiber looks similar but the leaf does not and the petiole is too stout for a youngster in those species. It actually looks like my Neovietcha storckii did when young. Totally guessing though. Also not familiar with the range of species available on your coast.

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Kim Grand Master

Kim

Posted
Posted

Some kind of Syagrus?  I first thought Jubaea also. 

Neoveitchia storckii would not have divided leaves at that age, nor would the leaflets be folded like that. Besides, this is in Fresno.

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Kim Cyr

Between the beach and the bays, Point Loma, San Diego, California USA
and on a 300 year-old lava flow, Pahoa, Hawaii, 1/4 mile from the 2018 flow
All characters  in this work are fictitious. Any resemblance to real persons, living or dead, is purely coincidental.

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Jdiaz31089 Mentor

Jdiaz31089

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1 hour ago, Kim said:

Some kind of Syagrus?  I first thought Jubaea also. 

Neoveitchia storckii would not have divided leaves at that age, nor would the leaflets be folded like that. Besides, this is in Fresno.

It seems like the concensus is that it is a cocoid species. I did get this in San Diego County, so the variety of species there is greater than in Fresno. 

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TexasColdHardyPalms Grand Master

TexasColdHardyPalms

Posted
Posted

It is not a Jubaea or Jubaea hybrid and doesn't look like a normal Butia (odorata, eriospatha, yatay, catarensis). It doesn't look like anything that I grow so I am going to guess some sort of Syagrus.  However that doesn't make sense as it wouldn't be pinnate at this size; even Butia isn't Pinnate at this size.  So the only thing I can tell you is what it isn't.

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DoomsDave Grand Master

DoomsDave

Posted
Posted

A cocoid for sure.

Might even be a Beccariophoenix madagascarensis (no window).

IMG_1736.thumb.JPG.eb8812b5f3c863a7f33dfIMG_1737.thumb.JPG.0e0922b7a60b7606df498

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Let's keep our forum fun and friendly.

Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or lost profits or revenue, claims by third parties or for other similar costs, or any special, incidental, or consequential damages arising out of my opinion or the use of this data. The accuracy or reliability of the data is not guaranteed or warranted in any way and I disclaim liability of any kind whatsoever, including, without limitation, liability for quality, performance, merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose arising out of the use, or inability to use my data. Other terms may apply.

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DoomsDave Grand Master

DoomsDave

Posted
Posted

If it's a B. mad, full sun, regular water.

Maybe repot it, give it another year before planting out. Takes FOREVER to get any size, but don't plant under the wires, for the love of your great-grandkids.

Pull it out of the pot and look at the dirt and roots. If it's all detioriated and nasty, repot for sure. IF not sure, show us and we'll help.

Share with us what you do and what it turns out to be.

  • Upvote 1

Let's keep our forum fun and friendly.

Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or lost profits or revenue, claims by third parties or for other similar costs, or any special, incidental, or consequential damages arising out of my opinion or the use of this data. The accuracy or reliability of the data is not guaranteed or warranted in any way and I disclaim liability of any kind whatsoever, including, without limitation, liability for quality, performance, merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose arising out of the use, or inability to use my data. Other terms may apply.

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Hammer Grand Master

Hammer

Posted
Posted
25 minutes ago, DoomsDave said:

If it's a B. mad, full sun, regular water.

Maybe repot it, give it another year before planting out. Takes FOREVER to get any size, but don't plant under the wires, for the love of your great-grandkids.

Pull it out of the pot and look at the dirt and roots. If it's all detioriated and nasty, repot for sure. IF not sure, show us and we'll help.

Share with us what you do and what it turns out to be.

Looks like a B. mad.  Slow but steady grower. A VERY attractive palm.  Nice score!

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Josh-O Grand Master

Josh-O

Posted
Posted

 

 

its not becarriophoenix mad. those have yellow margins and more of a yellow petiole (like in Dave's pic) this thing has a bluish glaucus already forming and is fully pinnate even at this size.

Its not a jubea because it has no hooks on the tip of the fronds.

I think Kim and joseph got it right. it just might be some sort of syagrus sp's. perhaps a dwarf species.

 

Truly a mystery a mystery palm...

 

where did your friend acquire this palm? this info might help out

 

  • Upvote 1

Carlsbad, California Zone 10 B on the hill (402 ft. elevation)

Sunset zone 24

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Jdiaz31089 Mentor

Jdiaz31089

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3 hours ago, Josh-O said:

Truly a mystery a mystery palm...

where did your friend acquire this palm? this info might help out

 

A mystery indeed! George Sparkman of Fallbrook gifted this to me. Maybe he'll chime in, but neither of us knew what it could be. He graciously gave it to me and told me to find out what it was! 

tomorrow, I'll take a look to see if the seed is still attached. Maybe it'll help resolve whether it's beccariophoenix or syagrus by the form of the seed. 

 

4 hours ago, DoomsDave said:

Pull it out of the pot and look at the dirt and roots. If it's all detioriated and nasty, repot for sure. IF not sure, show us and we'll help.

Share with us what you do and what it turns out to be.

I definitely will plan on that. Perhaps i can do that this weekend and give it a bit more room to spread it's roots.

 

If it helps any, this palm has seen mid-30s already this month without a single spot so that rules out any truly tropical species. 

 

6 hours ago, The Steve said:

Could it be a Kentia?  I don't remember what they look like at that stage.

I have Kentia seedlings this size and the leaflets are flatter, wider and droopier.

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Kim Grand Master

Kim

Posted
Posted

When you put it in the ground, if it grows fast, it's a hybrid.

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Kim Cyr

Between the beach and the bays, Point Loma, San Diego, California USA
and on a 300 year-old lava flow, Pahoa, Hawaii, 1/4 mile from the 2018 flow
All characters  in this work are fictitious. Any resemblance to real persons, living or dead, is purely coincidental.

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Josh-O Grand Master

Josh-O

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Kim said:

When you put it in the ground, if it grows fast, it's a hybrid.

true dat!!

Carlsbad, California Zone 10 B on the hill (402 ft. elevation)

Sunset zone 24

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Josh-O Grand Master

Josh-O

Posted
Posted
5 hours ago, Pal Meir said:

This is what I meant; it not exactly one point, but in case of Syagrus spp the two points are much closer together:

5839874233552_N14012016-11-26P1030043.th

awesome visuals Pal! :greenthumb:

Carlsbad, California Zone 10 B on the hill (402 ft. elevation)

Sunset zone 24

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Josh-O Grand Master

Josh-O

Posted
Posted

this is exactly why I like this forum so much. we all pitch in and help each other out.

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Carlsbad, California Zone 10 B on the hill (402 ft. elevation)

Sunset zone 24

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Josh-O Grand Master

Josh-O

Posted
Posted

my second guess is jubaeopsis caffra. I found this picture on the web today and it sure looks close. I also looked at some of my 15 gals and they have the same leaflet arrangements. Pals wonderful images got me thinking again.

Image result for jubaeopsis caffra

 

 

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Carlsbad, California Zone 10 B on the hill (402 ft. elevation)

Sunset zone 24

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rprimbs Mentor

rprimbs

Posted
Posted

It's definitely not a Syagrus because the trunk is wrong,  It looks a bit like a Beccariophoenix but it doesn't seem to have the sort of "windows" I would expect at this size.  It looks very Dypsis like to me.

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Pal Meir Grand Master

Pal Meir

Posted
Posted
On 24.11.2016, 23:40:42, kirkhutch said:

Looks a bit like my Jubaeopsis 

 

1 hour ago, Josh-O said:

my second guess is jubaeopsis caffra. I found this picture on the web today and it sure looks close. I also looked at some of my 15 gals and they have the same leaflet arrangements. Pals wonderful images got me thinking again.

Jubaeopsis was also my first guess, but I know nothing about cocosoid hybrids, so I didn’t add any positive guess because I was (and still am) not sure … :indifferent:

Jubaeopsis 2014-02-20.jpg

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My photos at flickr: flickr.com/photos/palmeir/albums

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Jdiaz31089 Mentor

Jdiaz31089

Posted
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Posted

hmm, we'll I repotted it and found no seed to speak of. I did find a mass of dead roots bit i don't think they belonged to the palm in question. The root system seemed kind of small to me, and the soil just all feel apart  when i tried getting it out of its container. It does show new root growth though which was positive!

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20161126_130436.thumb.jpg.28ef36e6facc0b

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Jdiaz31089 Mentor

Jdiaz31089

Posted
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And here are some pictures of the petioles showing slight tomentum, which i think gives the palm a glaucus look like Josh said. 

20161126_130756.thumb.jpg.1216efcd076840

20161126_130822.thumb.jpg.b07fd3d7348124

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DoomsDave Grand Master

DoomsDave

Posted
Posted

Looks like it could be any number of things.

In any event, it's good that you repotted it in some nice fresh dirt.

The Photobombing Doggie will protect from any varmints that try to eat it!

Keep us apprized.

George has a lot of great stuff, no telling what it could be!

 

Let's keep our forum fun and friendly.

Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or lost profits or revenue, claims by third parties or for other similar costs, or any special, incidental, or consequential damages arising out of my opinion or the use of this data. The accuracy or reliability of the data is not guaranteed or warranted in any way and I disclaim liability of any kind whatsoever, including, without limitation, liability for quality, performance, merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose arising out of the use, or inability to use my data. Other terms may apply.

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tim_brissy_13 Grand Master

tim_brissy_13

Posted
Posted

My first impression was Jubaeopsis though it is hard to tell at that size. Seems to have the yellowish colouring of the leaves of that species coming through.

Tim Brisbane

Patterson Lakes, bayside Melbourne, Australia

Rarely Frost

2005 Minimum: 2.6C,  Maximum: 44C

2005 Average: 17.2C, warmest on record.

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BS Man about Palms Grand Master

BS Man about Palms

Posted
Posted

Looks so close to so many things. But I don't really see Jubeaopsis. But I could see Beccariophoenix, Butia, Jubea, or Ravenea in various stages of happiness. I am always terrified of bare rooting palms heading into winter.. :( I kinda almost see Parajubea..

But if it survives, another year it might to show more tendencies..

Zone 10a at best after 2007 AND 2013, on SW facing hill, 1 1/2 miles from coast in Oceanside, CA. 30-98 degrees, and 45-80deg. about 95% of the time.

"The great workman of nature is time."   ,  "Genius is nothing but a great aptitude for patience."

-George-Louis Leclerc de Buffon-

I do some experiments and learning in my garden with palms so you don't have to experience the pain! Look at my old threads to find various observations and tips!

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Jdiaz31089 Mentor

Jdiaz31089

Posted
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Well, I think it's safe to assume that whatever this is, it's pretty hardy. It spent the winter outside underneath a "canopy" or sorts (bare limbs of a deciduous magnolia.) It's showing little spotting on all fronds, but is most significant on the oldest fronds. We hit low-30s a handful of times this winter, and there was heavy frost at least 3 nights. The spears (two new spears) are healthy though, and seems to be active. 

20170120_125231.thumb.jpg.bd34c5fcb178ac20170120_125138.thumb.jpg.c1ed4059628345

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Ben in Norcal Grand Master

Ben in Norcal

Posted
Posted

Hmmm...I don't think Butia or Jubaea would show that much damage at those temps?

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Ben Rogers

On the border of Concord & Clayton in the East Bay hills - Elev 387 ft 37.95 °N, 121.94 °W

My back yard weather station: http://www.wunderground.com/cgi-bin/findweather/hdfForecast?query=37.954%2C-121.945&sp=KCACONCO37

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