Ceroxylon quindiuence in zone 8?

[Panagiotis]

Hi guys, has anyone tried to grow ceroxylon quindiuence (or any other ceroxylon) in zone 8?

Some sites (palmsociety.org) say ceroxylons could possibly survive the winters of zone 8 Europe. Others say at least zone 8b, others 9, others even 10a. Others say that their hardiness is not well known.

 

What do you think is it possible ceroxylon quindiuence or any other ceroxylon species survive in zone 8?

 

Thanks 

Edited April 10, 2016 by Panagiotis

[Phoenikakias]

Cold tolerance often depends on vigor of a palm and vigor further is determined mainly by how fast and well it grows during the rest of the year beside winter. I greatly fear that summer in Greece is to hot (especially during evening) and dry for a good growth, if not survival, of this Ceroxylon during summer. Where exactly in Greece is it meant to be planted and what is the average minimum there?

[Panagiotis]

Hi Phoenikakias,

i live in Peloponnese, i want to plant it in a mountainous village in the borders of Arkadia/Elis. I don't know the elevation (wikipedia say 740m) but i think it's lower. Summers are not to hot (average temperature in the day is 32C,  average in the night is 18C). Most nights, we have high humidity.

I don't know exactly what zone is here i think 8b-9a. We have a lot of olive trees here (not the hardy type of olives), some years they get damaged by frost, some years there is no damage (olive trees get damaged at -6C). I think average minimum is around -2C/-4C.

[Alicehunter2000]

It may like your more mountainous conditions. Your zone 8b 9a is way different than north florida at sea level....it would probably languish and die like a host of other cold hardy mountain species.

[Phoenikakias]

Ok, you may give it a try, but imo it will need winter protection for several years. I had once tried an exemplary, it did grow well until the mid of June and then it got fried!

[gyuseppe]

for me it is useless to try to cultivate this species ,to me, are died 3 small seedlings 
you consider planting a arenga engleri ?(if you do not already have this species)

[Panagiotis]

Gyuseppe, i guess they die from the hot weather and not from the cold? My place is not too hot but i fear that winters are too cold here. Anyway i think i will give it a try, and i will post news again.

Thank all for your help.

[gyuseppe]

yes are  died in summer

[Monòver]

I think the best for you will be, Butiagrus. It is "similar" look and it is frost and hot hardy.

I think the Ceroxilon will be frosted in Winter and burned in Summer.

[Phoenikakias]

Here was mine outplanted in May in the northernmost part of my garden. In a couple of months was as good as dead...

Edited April 11, 2016 by Phoenikakias

[Tassie_Troy1971]

All ceroxylon grow well here in coastal Tasmania and also in Christchurch.

[Xhoniwaters1]

I'm about discover if C. parvifrons can take my summer heat 32-33C avg but with a consistent amount of humidity. Currently have a healthy potted 3 gallon under some filtered sun. Based on the nature of these palms...my hope is it will go dormant and then start growing again in the fall.  

[Matthew92]

I would love having these to liven up the skyline here in the tundra of FL. If only they could take humid continental summers.... 

[Xhoniwaters1]

Well I also have a hunch that pure Jubaea could grow in this area. They supposedly will grow in North Carolina. I grew up in Raleigh and it is just as humid and hotter there in summer.

[Alicehunter2000]

JxS has been fast in the pot here so far.

[Ben in Norcal]

1 hour ago, Alicehunter2000 said:

JxS has been fast in the pot here so far.

Get it in the ground David.  At least 2x as fast, probably 3x, in the ground vs. pot in California.  And that's with very attentive pot culture.

[Panagiotis]

Hey guys by the way, do you think a Jubaea chilensis is a good option for my climate?

Below are my monthly average temperatures:

	Jan	Feb	Mar	Apr	May	Jun	Jul	Aug	Sep	Oct	Nov	Dec
High °C	9	10	13	17	22	28	30	30	27	20	15	11
High °F	48	50	55	63	72	82	86	86	81	68	59	52
Low °C	1	1	3	5	8	12	14	14	11	8	5	2
Low °F	34	34	37	41	46	54	57	57	52	46	41	36

[Ben in Norcal]

24 minutes ago, Panagiotis said:

Hey guys by the way, do you think a Jubaea chilensis is a good option for my climate?

Below are my monthly average temperatures:

	Jan	Feb	Mar	Apr	May	Jun	Jul	Aug	Sep	Oct	Nov	Dec
High °C	9	10	13	17	22	28	30	30	27	20	15	11
High °F	48	50	55	63	72	82	86	86	81	68	59	52
Low °C	1	1	3	5	8	12	14	14	11	8	5	2
Low °F	34	34	37	41	46	54	57	57	52	46	41	36

Those averages are fine, but it depends on what your ultimate lows are.

[Panagiotis]

31 minutes ago, Ben in Norcal said:

Those averages are fine, but it depends on what your ultimate lows are.

My ultimate lows usually are around 21F (-6C).

What about summer day temperatures are they too high?

Edited April 20, 2016 by Panagiotis

[Ben in Norcal]

Pretty cold but should be OK unless you get substantially colder on an infrequent basis.

[Panagiotis]

Not colder than 15F for sure, because i have olive trees from my grandfather for years (olive trees do not survive below 15F (-10).

Some summers we have 105F (40C) do you think it is fine?

Edited April 20, 2016 by Panagiotis

[Ben in Norcal]

105 or even 110F is no issue, at least not with the dry heat we get here.

[Panagiotis]

7 hours ago, Ben in Norcal said:

105 or even 110F is no issue, at least not with the dry heat we get here.

Ok thanks.

[Kostas]

Panagiotis,

 

Olives don't care about -10C. They have seen it in Melissia. They also don't burn at -6C. They have also seen it in Melissia every few years. So you can't base the cold hardiness on that. Peloponissos gets short frosts that can damage the leafs without the temperature getting too low but at your altitude, you will surely get cold as well. My take is that it won't last your winters that high up, unless it's under evergreen, closed canopy. 

C. quindiuense is one of the cooler growing Ceroxylon that are very hard to survive in hot summer climates, so it will struggle your summers unless its in wet shade with maybe morning sun to help with speed of growth.

If you can try it, do try it in a wet gully in evergreen forest conditions, or at least under tall evergreen canopy with plenty of watering. Or in a tight spot between buildings, at the north side with only morning sun. But in most other cases, it won't survive.

I grow Ceroxylon amazonicum for 7years now in lowland, coastal Helia, but -3,5C burned them badly once. The temperature in my region is usually around 35C steady, 40C is rare

[Panagiotis]

4 hours ago, Kostas said:

Panagiotis,

 

Olives don't care about -10C. They have seen it in Melissia. They also don't burn at -6C. They have also seen it in Melissia every few years. So you can't base the cold hardiness on that. Peloponissos gets short frosts that can damage the leafs without the temperature getting too low but at your altitude, you will surely get cold as well. My take is that it won't last your winters that high up, unless it's under evergreen, closed canopy. 

C. quindiuense is one of the cooler growing Ceroxylon that are very hard to survive in hot summer climates, so it will struggle your summers unless its in wet shade with maybe morning sun to help with speed of growth.

If you can try it, do try it in a wet gully in evergreen forest conditions, or at least under tall evergreen canopy with plenty of watering. Or in a tight spot between buildings, at the north side with only morning sun. But in most other cases, it won't survive.

I grow Ceroxylon amazonicum for 7years now in lowland, coastal Helia, but -3,5C burned them badly once. The temperature in my region is usually around 35C steady, 40C is rare

Hi, duration of the cold is an other important factor, if the temperature drops to -10C for a short time span there is no problem, but for a long time it can surely damage even to kill an olive tree. (except some hardy olive trees species). Anyway if your ceroxylon amazonicum burned badly once at -3,5C (this temperature is very common here) i think there is no possibility for any ceroxylon to survive here.

Thanks for your help.

 

[Kostas]

Yes, duration is an important factor but unless such frosts are of very short duration, no Ceroxylon can survive them. During that -3,5C event, the temperature fell below 0C for only 4-5hours at the very most. After 9am it was 10C again and the day topped at 16C

[Albey]

Ceroxylon quindiuense in Christchurch took 11-hours below freezing for one night last Winter with temps down to -4°c and are growing fine.

Here is one of them.

 

Edited April 24, 2016 by Albey

[Kostas]

Very nice Albey!

[Phoenikakias]

2 hours ago, dekaoxtoyra said:

here north Greece zone 9a most year 9b  norther from me 8b to 9a

in south from 9b to 11b in some locals maybe 12

[gyuseppe]

27 minutes ago, Phoenikakias said:

Konstantinos climate   of south Greece is  from 9b to  ?

[Phoenikakias]

Do you really hold that there is a single chance that even only one  small patch of land here can match the Florida Keys (11b)?????

[gyuseppe]

yes I know  that southern Greece   not  is  the area 11b

but you have not again  answered my question: climate   of south Greece is  from 9b to  ?

 

[Phoenikakias]

9b to 10b of course, just like in southern Italy... or even 9a.

Edited December 1, 2016 by Phoenikakias

[Albey]

On 21/04/2016, 4:51:01, Kostas said:

Yes, duration is an important factor but unless such frosts are of very short duration, no Ceroxylon can survive them. During that -3,5C event, the temperature fell below 0C for only 4-5hours at the very most. After 9am it was 10C again and the day topped at 16C

Hi Kostas

We have a Ceroxylon quindiuense in town here which has seen temps of -4°c and below 0°c for maybe up to 11 or so hours without too much damage. Daytime temps during summer climb above 30°c but drop back down to below 20°c at night. It seems to be able to handle quiet a few hot days during this time of the year. So for me this is surprising. The USDA climate here is always 9a to 9b depending on the Winter. I think 9a would be the minimum for any Ceroxylon.

Edited December 2, 2016 by Albey

[richnorm]

On 4/24/2016, 7:55:51, Albey said:

Ceroxylon quindiuense in Christchurch took 11-hours below freezing for one night last Winter with temps down to -4°c and are growing fine.

Here is one of them.

 

Looks more like parvifrons to me which would explain the cold tolerance too.

[Albey]

1 hour ago, richnorm said:

Looks more like parvifrons to me which would explain the cold tolerance too.

Hi Richard,

You think so ? ( Will be interesting to watch this plant over the years as it grows ) will get some images this summer to see how it is going.

Rod.

Edited December 2, 2016 by Albey

[richnorm]

20 hours ago, Albey said:

Hi Richard,

You think so ? ( Will be interesting to watch this plant over the years as it grows ) will get some images this summer to see how it is going.

Rod.

Could be cultivational but it lacks the fused terminal leaflets, has shorter broader leaflets, colouring is different and habit more upright than typically seen up here.