The 1899 Valentines Day Florida massacre

[SubTropicRay]

It's the anniversary of the 1899 Arctic Outbreak.  The numbers are comparable to the December 1983 and January 1985 freezes.

[Mr. Coconut Palm]

1 hour ago, SubTropicRay said:

It's the anniversary of the 1899 Arctic Outbreak.  The numbers are comparable to the December 1983 and January 1985 freezes.

Ray,

OUCH!  That's brutal, especially for mid Feb.!  You would think that if it ever got that cold, it would be from the end of Dec. to mid Jan., but never the middle of Feb, but the same thing happened over here on Feb. 11 or 12, 1899.  That date it got down to 11F in Corpus Christi, the all time record low, and I think it was the same Arctic BLAST that dropped Brownsville to its all time record low of 12F!  I would assume by the water here it probably didn't get below 12F or 13F and probably at South Padre (where nobody lived back then) didn't get below about 14F or 15F, but still at those temps, what's 2 or 3F difference?

John

[palmsOrl]

That was indeed brutal everywhere in FL, but the temperatures that stand out most (in comparison to similar events more recently) are in the Panhandle and NE FL in places like Tallahassee, Bristol, Gainesville and Daytona Beach.  My area (Orlando area) had temperatures as low or lower at least 3 times in the 1980s.  I have also read of unofficial temperatures as low as -8F in the Western Panhandle sometime during the twentieth century and I am sure temperatures somewhere within the modern day FL State boundaries got this low in 1899 too.

I wish there was more data available on the 1835 freeze, as this one may very well have been worse that any other since then.  I guess we will never know for sure.

[Palmaceae]

I am happy to say I don't remember that one  but vividly remember the 80's freezes.

[Mr. Coconut Palm]

1 hour ago, Palmaceae said:

I am happy to say I don't remember that one  but vividly remember the 80's freezes.

That's a good one, Randy!  You made me laugh with that one.  Let's hope we never find out.

[Xerarch]

3 hours ago, palmsOrl said:

That was indeed brutal everywhere in FL, but the temperatures that stand out most (in comparison to similar events more recently) are in the Panhandle and NE FL in places like Tallahassee, Bristol, Gainesville and Daytona Beach.  My area (Orlando area) had temperatures as low or lower at least 3 times in the 1980s.  I have also read of unofficial temperatures as low as -8F in the Western Panhandle sometime during the twentieth century and I am sure temperatures somewhere within the modern day FL State boundaries got this low in 1899 too.

I wish there was more data available on the 1835 freeze, as this one may very well have been worse that any other since then.  I guess we will never know for sure.

I've been curious about the 1835 freeze, but there just isn't much official data for it.  That's the freeze that killed 100 year old citrus trees in St. Augustine.  Amazingly that must mean that there hadn't been a killing citrus freeze for 100 years prior to that in St. Augustine, 1835 really seems to be a major turning point.

[Silas_Sancona]

As cold as some of the outbreaks have been through over the last few decades, i can only imagine the carnage cold of this magnitude.. or worse, would leave behind, especially for S.W. and South Florida. Yaozah!

[Palmaceae]

I read that was the year when the Mississippi froze its entire length down to the Gulf of Mexico, and supposedly some ice flowed into the Gulf. That had to be a site.

[Silas_Sancona]

30 minutes ago, Palmaceae said:

I read that was the year when the Mississippi froze its entire length down to the Gulf of Mexico, and supposedly some ice flowed into the Gulf. That had to be a site.

..A sight of pure evil  Weather advisory that morning from the Ruskin NWS Office: "Beware of Iceburgs when sailing around Anna Maria"  Scream

[bubba]

The Map is  interesting but I am not sure that it takes into account the state of Florida in 1899. Florida was the first state  discovered in the "New World" but the last state settled.  As a practical matter, in 1899 Florida constituted two cities ( Pensacola and Jacksonville)  with Tallahassee chosen as the capital because it was roughly midway in between. The interior  to the south was in large order no different from Africa. 

 Henry Flagler first visited Jacksonville Florida in 1877.  He returned with his second wife in 1883 and stayed at Saint Augustine.  During his second stay, his true desire actualized.  His idea was to establish world class  accommodations for the wealthy but his real desire was to expand the railroad system  as far as it would go. To that end, he acquired the rights to build a railway all the way to Miami  in 1892.  It is speculated that Flagler would not have pursued the acquisition of those rights without  thorough investigation. Therefore, it is speculated that he had invisible advance teams in place  involved in due diligence as early as 1890. 

 The severe freezes of 1894, 1895 and 1899 parallel  oddly the freezes 90 years later experienced in 1983, 1985 and 1989.  The damage to the Florida citrus industry, which was in large order was located in north Florida at this time was  obviously severe. The "Julia Tuttle" story  regarding her courting of  Flagler to extend the railroad to Miami  by sending him the  undamaged orange bud  to him in Saint Augustine in 1895  was likely a romanticized version of the truth. Flagler had long before actualized his  plan to complete the railroad to Miami and beyond.  Some believe that Flagler's  true goal was to create a railroad across the Florida straits  from Key West to Havana. This is backed by engineers employed by Flagler to  engineer oceanic spans to be used by his railroad.

 The 1899 freeze was a tremendous shock to the state of Florida. At the end of the day, however,  it's ultimate effect  was to move the citrus industry to the south. As bad as this  once in a century freeze proved to be, The coconuts dropped by the Providecia in the 1877  shipwreck off Palm Beach were in no way damaged and agriculture  at this time in South Florida was virtually nonexistent. Other than moving the citrus  Industry south  from North Florida, there was really no financial disaster attendant to this freeze in  South Florida. 

 

 

[Mr. Coconut Palm]

I wonder if either 1835 or 1899 was the year that they called it the "Year Without A Summer" because, apparently even the summer temps that year were way below normal.  It is interesting to not that the map above depicts the all time record low temps in North Florida, but subsequent Arctic outbreaks were actually worse in South Florida, because the map shows a record low temp of 28F at Palm Beach, 29F at Miami, and 44F at Key West, yet the all time record lows there are as far as I know, 24F in Palm Beach, 27F in Miami, and 41F in Key West.  You would think that with the all time record low of -2F at Tallahassee according to the map, that an Arctic outbreak that bad would have brought the all time record lows all the way to Key West, but maybe it is like this current horrible Arctic outbreak in the Northeast right now, sliding more to the east rather than due south.  Anyway, 1899 was a VERY BAD winter in Florida and South Texas, bringing the all time record lows to Corpus Christi and Brownsville too.

I still find it hard to believe that such a horrible Arctic outbreak would occur relatively late in the season, rather than in January, which is usually the dead of winter in South Florida and South Texas.

[Eric in Orlando]

Here is an interesting account from David Fairchild. In Feb.2-3 1917 was another horrible freeze and Fairchild observes  it dropped to 27F down in the area of Buena Vista, south of downtown Miami where the Deering Estate is.

http://ufdc.ufl.edu/AA00003176/00001

 

 

[Eric in Orlando]

That same freeze of 1917 killed a lot of Henry Nehrling's tropical plants in Gotha (SW of Orlando). Much of his caladium hybridization work was wiped out and we eventually bought property in Naples because of the 1917 freeze. I believe Nehrling recorded 18F in this freeze. Interestingly Fairchild visited Nehrling's Palm Cottage Gardens in March 1917 to see the damage. This account says Orlando got to 22F but the day before it was 86F. What a drop!

 

http://www.jstor.org/stable/3491822?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents

[bubba]

John, The 24F for West Palm Beach is misleading. It was apparently taken at an experimental agricultural location between Palm Beach and the Glades. If you have read Walt's extremely professional analysis of large bodies of water and their creation of microclimates in the "Miami Beach" thread, you will get some idea of the wild variations in temperatures experienced in cold events in Florida based upon the locations proximity to large bodies of water. Walt's maps proved the existence of the "Pahokee microclimate" on the Eastern side of the lip of Lake Okeechobee. I had heard of the existence of this microclimate anecdotally through a farmer in that area, who kept meticulous temperature readings. He lived in this area commencing in the early 1920s and had never recorded a freezing temperature. This included the three (3) 1980 freezes together with numerous other cold events (1940, 1962 1977). Some validation was provided in 2010 when Pahokee had the only sweet corn in January 2010 in the continental United States. Highly productive areas from Homestead South were completely destroyed during this cold event.

The Map created by Ray is well done and very interesting. There is absolutely no question that the 1899 freeze was likely the worst experienced and the three (3) freezes experienced in the 1890s were undoubtedly the coldest in recent history. I say this based upon the long time historical low temperatures recorded from Texas, the entire Gulf Coast into Florida. The fact that the Mississippi River froze all the way to the Gulf of Mexico and the low temperature recorded in New Orleans was 6F constitutes ample evidence.

The 1899 cold event was very similar to the 1949 cold event experienced throughout the entire Western United States, including but not limited to Southern California. Most of the record low temperatures recorded in the West correspond to this cold event. For example, the lowest temperature ever recorded in Los Angeles of 24F (recorded at LAX) occurred during this timeframe. I believe San Diego had a low temperature of 25F. during this event. Western cold events tend to be much longer in length and the rebound is slower most likely because of the higher latitude.

I am extremely wary of temperatures taken at airports. I know the location of the PBIA weather station, which is in an exposed location in a large area without any vegetation. It is certain that an exposed area like this will always provide the coldest temperature and will not be representative of the location. This is true particularly in Ca., where the banana belts are substantially warmer. This is also true in Florida near large bodies of water, including but not limited to the Gulfstream.

I would also like to obtain more information on the 1835 freeze in Florida. It possibly rivaled the 1899 freeze. However, it did not cause the relocation of the citrus industry further south from North Florida as the 1899 freeze did. However, in 1835 very little in the way of an organized citrus industry existed in Florida. In fact, there is likely no information whatsoever on the 1835 freeze further south than Saint Augustine. Most citrus at that time was spread by the Indians, who obtained seeds from the Spanish explorers. As a graduate of University of Florida, I can tell you that it is very common to this day in the Gainesville area to locate wild citrus trees, especially in the areas north and south of Paynes Prairie. This is an area that the Timicuans were known to farm extensively. Interestingly, it historically shifted from a prairie to a large lake numerous times over time and filled and drained very quickly. Not until the Florida Department of Transportation determined that it would remain a prairie for the sake of I-75 and 441 roadways, did the swing from large lake to prairie cease. The existence or nonexistence of this large body of water likely allowed or disallowed the continuation of the citrus industry.

 

[PalmatierMeg]

The lowest low in Ft. Myers was 24F sometime in the 1920s. I notice no data in 1899 for SW FL but that's not surprising. It was pretty much unpopulated. Ft. Myers was a cow town devoted to shipping cattle north by sea. There were scarcely any roads. But its latitude is approximately the same as Palm Beach and, depending on the north winds, it probably achieved a similar low. Since I moved to Cape Coral in 1993, the lowest I recorded at my homestead is 28.5F on Jan. 11, 2010.

[Mr. Coconut Palm]

On ‎2‎/‎15‎/‎2016‎ ‎10‎:‎01‎:‎48‎, bubba said:

John, The 24F for West Palm Beach is misleading. It was apparently taken at an experimental agricultural location between Palm Beach and the Glades. If you have read Walt's extremely professional analysis of large bodies of water and their creation of microclimates in the "Miami Beach" thread, you will get some idea of the wild variations in temperatures experienced in cold events in Florida based upon the locations proximity to large bodies of water. Walt's maps proved the existence of the "Pahokee microclimate" on the Eastern side of the lip of Lake Okeechobee. I had heard of the existence of this microclimate anecdotally through a farmer in that area, who kept meticulous temperature readings. He lived in this area commencing in the early 1920s and had never recorded a freezing temperature. This included the three (3) 1980 freezes together with numerous other cold events (1940, 1962 1977). Some validation was provided in 2010 when Pahokee had the only sweet corn in January 2010 in the continental United States. Highly productive areas from Homestead South were completely destroyed during this cold event.

The Map created by Ray is well done and very interesting. There is absolutely no question that the 1899 freeze was likely the worst experienced and the three (3) freezes experienced in the 1890s were undoubtedly the coldest in recent history. I say this based upon the long time historical low temperatures recorded from Texas, the entire Gulf Coast into Florida. The fact that the Mississippi River froze all the way to the Gulf of Mexico and the low temperature recorded in New Orleans was 6F constitutes ample evidence.

The 1899 cold event was very similar to the 1949 cold event experienced throughout the entire Western United States, including but not limited to Southern California. Most of the record low temperatures recorded in the West correspond to this cold event. For example, the lowest temperature ever recorded in Los Angeles of 24F (recorded at LAX) occurred during this timeframe. I believe San Diego had a low temperature of 25F. during this event. Western cold events tend to be much longer in length and the rebound is slower most likely because of the higher latitude.

I am extremely wary of temperatures taken at airports. I know the location of the PBIA weather station, which is in an exposed location in a large area without any vegetation. It is certain that an exposed area like this will always provide the coldest temperature and will not be representative of the location. This is true particularly in Ca., where the banana belts are substantially warmer. This is also true in Florida near large bodies of water, including but not limited to the Gulfstream.

I would also like to obtain more information on the 1835 freeze in Florida. It possibly rivaled the 1899 freeze. However, it did not cause the relocation of the citrus industry further south from North Florida as the 1899 freeze did. However, in 1835 very little in the way of an organized citrus industry existed in Florida. In fact, there is likely no information whatsoever on the 1835 freeze further south than Saint Augustine. Most citrus at that time was spread by the Indians, who obtained seeds from the Spanish explorers. As a graduate of University of Florida, I can tell you that it is very common to this day in the Gainesville area to locate wild citrus trees, especially in the areas north and south of Paynes Prairie. This is an area that the Timicuans were known to farm extensively. Interestingly, it historically shifted from a prairie to a large lake numerous times over time and filled and drained very quickly. Not until the Florida Department of Transportation determined that it would remain a prairie for the sake of I-75 and 441 roadways, did the swing from large lake to prairie cease. The existence or nonexistence of this large body of water likely allowed or disallowed the continuation of the citrus industry.

 

Keith,

Thanks for that very detailed explanation.  I find weather patterns and climate very interesting, especially when it comes to Florida and the South Texas Coast.  By the way, when I lived in Coral Springs back in 2000 and 2001, I made a trip along Hwy. 27 around the south end of Lake Okeechobee on my way to Tampa and saw the tallest and most robust Jamaican Talls and Florida Royal Palms I had ever seen anywhere.  I would say that the Jamaican Talls were easily 80ft. tall with very robust beautiful crowns on them, and the Florida Royals there had to be at least 100ft. tall also with very beautiful robust crowns on them.  I think it is the combination of the microclimate along the south side of the lake as well as the very nutrient rich muck soil there.  As I recall, the Jamaicans and royals both looked better than they do even in Miami or the Keys.

I had no idea that L.A. and San Diego had ever gotten that cold.  I thought I read somewhere years ago that San Diego's all time record low was 33F.  The reading I am referring to must have been taken closer to the water than the official reading you mentioned.  Supposedly there are Zone 11 areas along the coastline around San Diego, but they are too cool overall for Coconut Palms to grow there for the most part, whereas I live in a cool to mild Zone 10A winter climate and they have been grown to maturity with nuts on them here between really bad winters due to our warmth in the spring, summer and fall that coastal Southern California doesn't get with the exception of the days that they have the Santa Anna winds.  Where I live, we have an average soil temp in Jan. of about 57F, but that only lasts for about a month or less before the soil temp warms up to 60F or above in a normal winter, whereas coastal Southern California seems to have average soil temps in the mid to upper 50's for about 3 months from what I understand, which is devastating to coconuts.

You will probably find this interesting.  Red Mangroves are known to be establishing themselves in isolated areas along the Coastal Bend and up to the bay side of Matagorda Island.  Previously, they were only found around the Rio Grande Delta, with maybe a few occasionally at South Padre Island.  We probably have tens of thousands of Black Mangroves though scattered in areas along the Texas Coast from Galveston southward.

Speaking of the citrus industry, there is an area northwest of Corpus Christi called Orange Grove.  I am not sure, but I think many years ago, there may have been commercial production of some citrus there, but now all the commercial citrus production in Texas is in the RGV, so I suppose any citrus industry here was chased southward by a really bad winter before the '83 and '89 freezes.

John

[Mr. Coconut Palm]

On ‎2‎/‎15‎/‎2016‎ ‎8‎:‎21‎:‎08‎, Eric in Orlando said:

That same freeze of 1917 killed a lot of Henry Nehrling's tropical plants in Gotha (SW of Orlando). Much of his caladium hybridization work was wiped out and we eventually bought property in Naples because of the 1917 freeze. I believe Nehrling recorded 18F in this freeze. Interestingly Fairchild visited Nehrling's Palm Cottage Gardens in March 1917 to see the damage. This account says Orlando got to 22F but the day before it was 86F. What a drop!

 

http://www.jstor.org/stable/3491822?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents

That's a huge drop, but I think something similar happened here in Texas in either the '83 or '89 freeze in which I believe temps dropped from the 70's one day to the teens within about 36 hours or less.

[Mr. Coconut Palm]

On ‎2‎/‎15‎/‎2016‎ ‎11‎:‎30‎:‎04‎, PalmatierMeg said:

The lowest low in Ft. Myers was 24F sometime in the 1920s. I notice no data in 1899 for SW FL but that's not surprising. It was pretty much unpopulated. Ft. Myers was a cow town devoted to shipping cattle north by sea. There were scarcely any roads. But its latitude is approximately the same as Palm Beach and, depending on the north winds, it probably achieved a similar low. Since I moved to Cape Coral in 1993, the lowest I recorded at my homestead is 28.5F on Jan. 11, 2010.

Meg, in 23 years of living somewhere, I would certainly take a lowest low of 28.5 and be very happy with it.  I wish we could say the same along the South Texas coast, but here when we get hit by a very bad winter, we really get hit by them.  Thank God they are few and far between.

[Walt]

On ‎2‎/‎15‎/‎2016‎ ‎9‎:‎20‎:‎19‎, Eric in Orlando said:

Here is an interesting account from David Fairchild. In Feb.2-3 1917 was another horrible freeze and Fairchild observes  it dropped to 27F down in the area of Buena Vista, south of downtown Miami where the Deering Estate is.

http://ufdc.ufl.edu/AA00003176/00001

 

 

Eric, Thanks for posting that link. I found that account quite interesting, especially seeing the vast array of plants they were growing 99 years ago.

[Walt]

That 1899 freeze was mostly, if not all, advective. I bet it was warmer in Highlands County (in the coldest areas) that day than on January 5, 2001, when Archbold Biological Station dropped to tie their all-time low temperature record at 13 degrees, during a severe radiational freeze.

That morning, I recorded 22 degrees just outside the south side of my house. No doubt at all it was 20 to high teens in the lower part of my property that day. My young palm and tropical garden was wiped out.

Archbold Biological Station is about 10 miles southwest of my location. I never thought it could get so cold at 27 degrees, 10 minutes, 50 seconds North!

http://www.archbold-station.org/html/research/monitoring/climate/climate.html

[Mr. Coconut Palm]

On ‎2‎/‎24‎/‎2016‎ ‎6‎:‎23‎:‎39‎, Walt said:

That 1899 freeze was mostly, if not all, advective. I bet it was warmer in Highlands County (in the coldest areas) that day than on January 5, 2001, when Archbold Biological Station dropped to tie their all-time low temperature record at 13 degrees, during a severe radiational freeze.

That morning, I recorded 22 degrees just outside the south side of my house. No doubt at all it was 20 to high teens in the lower part of my property that day. My young palm and tropical garden was wiped out.

Archbold Biological Station is about 10 miles southwest of my location. I never thought it could get so cold at 27 degrees, 10 minutes, 50 seconds North!

http://www.archbold-station.org/html/research/monitoring/climate/climate.html

Walt,

I lived in Coral Springs in an apartment then.  I remember the winter of 2000-2001 was VERY COLD in South Florida.  As I recall, there were frost and freeze warnings being issued off and on for about 3 straight weeks in late December till about mid January.  If I am not mistaken, on the morning of Jan. 1, 2001, it got down to at least 32F at the city park across the street from the apartment complex I lived in.  I walked over to the park right about daybreak with a regular thermometer and placed it on the ground in an open area near the lone Coconut Palm in the park, and after a few minutes, it read 32F.  I assume that was the low or close to it, since the low on such mornings usually occurs right before daybreak.  That same morning though, Homestead got down to 28F, and they are so much further south of Coral Springs and so close to Key Largo!  I was shocked at that.  But, as I recall, that same morning it got down to 19F at some location in the Everglades, the COLDEST temperature ever recorded in the Glades and wiped out 40,000 acres of Sugar Cane.

I honestly think all the overwhelming over development in South and Central Florida has drastically changed the normal climate of Florida from a humid moist tropical/subtropical climate to an often chilly winter drought stricken climate.  As I recall, in 2000, there were 280,000 acres burning in Florida and Martin County was so dry that it was called Desert Conditions similar to Arizona!  Just 2 years earlier, my ex wife and I made a weekend trip from Texas (before we moved to Florida) to Ft. Myers Beach for our anniversary.  When our plane was making the final approach to the Ft. Myers Airport, I could see a huge cloud of smoke over the Glades and when we landed and rented a car, I looked towards the east and southeast and there was a large bank of smoke like a VERY LARGE cloud bank.  That was a VERY DRY year too, and DRASTIC CLIMATE CHANGE was knocking on our door here in Texas too with a severe drought and very hot temps that summer.  There was so much smoke from the fires in the Yucatan in which much of what was left of the native tropical jungle and rainforest there was being clear cut for commercial agriculture.  The smoke was so thick from the Yucatan fires here in Texas, it caused the afternoon skies to look a very hazy amber color and the smoke could be seen as FAR NORTH AS OKLAHOMA CITY that summer!

John

[nitsua0895]

I'm surprised Montgomery didn't get even colder during the 1899 freeze. It got down to -5F which isn't so bad considering it was -2F in north Florida. I've always wondered if the Alabama River that passes through downtown has ever frozen and it must have that year if the Mississpi River froze all the way to the Gulf. 

Thankfully the lowest temp I can remember is 13F, which most cold hardy palms can fight through even if they get defoliated. Who's up for building a mountain range between here and Canada to stop these types of cold outbreaks from happening again? 

 

[Walt]

On ‎2‎/‎25‎/‎2016‎ ‎9‎:‎22‎:‎23‎, Mr. Coconut Palm said:

Walt,

I lived in Coral Springs in an apartment then.  I remember the winter of 2000-2001 was VERY COLD in South Florida.  As I recall, there were frost and freeze warnings being issued off and on for about 3 straight weeks in late December till about mid January.  If I am not mistaken, on the morning of Jan. 1, 2001, it got down to at least 32F at the city park across the street from the apartment complex I lived in.  I walked over to the park right about daybreak with a regular thermometer and placed it on the ground in an open area near the lone Coconut Palm in the park, and after a few minutes, it read 32F.  I assume that was the low or close to it, since the low on such mornings usually occurs right before daybreak.  That same morning though, Homestead got down to 28F, and they are so much further south of Coral Springs and so close to Key Largo!  I was shocked at that.  But, as I recall, that same morning it got down to 19F at some location in the Everglades, the COLDEST temperature ever recorded in the Glades and wiped out 40,000 acres of Sugar Cane.

I honestly think all the overwhelming over development in South and Central Florida has drastically changed the normal climate of Florida from a humid moist tropical/subtropical climate to an often chilly winter drought stricken climate.  As I recall, in 2000, there were 280,000 acres burning in Florida and Martin County was so dry that it was called Desert Conditions similar to Arizona!  Just 2 years earlier, my ex wife and I made a weekend trip from Texas (before we moved to Florida) to Ft. Myers Beach for our anniversary.  When our plane was making the final approach to the Ft. Myers Airport, I could see a huge cloud of smoke over the Glades and when we landed and rented a car, I looked towards the east and southeast and there was a large bank of smoke like a VERY LARGE cloud bank.  That was a VERY DRY year too, and DRASTIC CLIMATE CHANGE was knocking on our door here in Texas too with a severe drought and very hot temps that summer.  There was so much smoke from the fires in the Yucatan in which much of what was left of the native tropical jungle and rainforest there was being clear cut for commercial agriculture.  The smoke was so thick from the Yucatan fires here in Texas, it caused the afternoon skies to look a very hazy amber color and the smoke could be seen as FAR NORTH AS OKLAHOMA CITY that summer!

John

Weird thing, I never got a notification for your reply, and I see it was dated 2/25 at 9:22:23. I just got a notification from the last poster -- and that's when I discovered your reply. Oh, well.

Yes, the severe radiational freeze on January 5, 2001 was my coldest freeze so far since I moved to Highlands County in late 1997. I could hardly believe how cold it got, especially at Archbold Biological Station. I still have the newspaper weather page showing the 13 degree reading ABS got.

January of 2010 was very bad, with 12 straight night in the 30s and 20s. And again in December of 2010 was a very cold month, and I had my earliest frost on the 4th, and we had 13 days with lows in the 20s or 30s. On one of those nights I recorded my all-time low of 20.8 degrees about 15 feet out from my house. I know on the lower portions of my property it runs about two degrees colder on windless nights, so I believe it got down into the high teens. I think ABS recorded 15 on one night and 16 on another.

I mention the above freezes in this YouTube video I uploaded May 19, 2015. If I continually got freezes like the above I would have thrown in the towel long ago on trying to grow zone 10 palms, trees, and shrubs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tw8jAAsnyBk

 

[Mr. Coconut Palm]

3 hours ago, Walt said:

Weird thing, I never got a notification for your reply, and I see it was dated 2/25 at 9:22:23. I just got a notification from the last poster -- and that's when I discovered your reply. Oh, well.

Yes, the severe radiational freeze on January 5, 2001 was my coldest freeze so far since I moved to Highlands County in late 1997. I could hardly believe how cold it got, especially at Archbold Biological Station. I still have the newspaper weather page showing the 13 degree reading ABS got.

January of 2010 was very bad, with 12 straight night in the 30s and 20s. And again in December of 2010 was a very cold month, and I had my earliest frost on the 4th, and we had 13 days with lows in the 20s or 30s. On one of those nights I recorded my all-time low of 20.8 degrees about 15 feet out from my house. I know on the lower portions of my property it runs about two degrees colder on windless nights, so I believe it got down into the high teens. I think ABS recorded 15 on one night and 16 on another.

I mention the above freezes in this YouTube video I uploaded May 19, 2015. If I continually got freezes like the above I would have thrown in the towel long ago on trying to grow zone 10 palms, trees, and shrubs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tw8jAAsnyBk

 

Hey Walt,

Sometimes, I have the same problem.  I have responses to my posts, but no notification of them at times.  Let's hope we don't see anymore winters like those and no more extreme record breaking hot months and years like we have seen recently too.  Here, we are slipping back into drought again after our 3rd wettest year on record last year in Corpus Christi and after the wettest year on record statewide.

I like your ficus video.  I love ficus too.  I am trying to make a tropical botanical garden type of yard with many types of palms, 3 in ground types of ficus, and other tropical trees and plants too.

John

[Mr. Coconut Palm]

Walt,

Do you have any Florida Strangler Figs in your yard or in the nature preserve adjacent to your place?  I have a small one I just recently planted in my yard, and I am trying to get an idea of how cold hardy mine will be, since you have said before what a cold pocket area your yard is.

John

[Walt]

6 hours ago, Mr. Coconut Palm said:

Walt,

Do you have any Florida Strangler Figs in your yard or in the nature preserve adjacent to your place?  I have a small one I just recently planted in my yard, and I am trying to get an idea of how cold hardy mine will be, since you have said before what a cold pocket area your yard is.

John

John,

 

Yes, I have one Ficus aurea. I bought it at a native plant nursery in Ft. Myers in 2010. I actually planted it to the outer edge (canopy edge) of my large Ficus altissima. And wouldn't you know, it was frozen to the roots in 2010. It started to come back but wasn't doing much so dug it up and repotted it. After it got up to about four feet tall I planted it back in my lightly wooded area. Since then it's never been hurt (winters from 2011 to present). However, it hasn't been a fast grower for me. I doubt if it's much more than eight feet tall overall.

I just remembered that in 2010 I lost a Ficus benjamina that was about 20 feet tall. I had grown it from about a 3 gallon size. I've since replaced it with another, but it is growing so much slower than they one I lost to the freeze.

I plan on making a YouTube video of all the ficus species I'm growing. Years ago a poster here sent me some Ficus rubinginosa seeds. I have four of them planted. What I find peculiar with the various ficus seeds I've planted, is that they germinate, but then they stay small for so long, maybe up to a year or more, then they start to grow fast, or at least much faster.

[Mr. Coconut Palm]

11 hours ago, Walt said:

John,

 

Yes, I have one Ficus aurea. I bought it at a native plant nursery in Ft. Myers in 2010. I actually planted it to the outer edge (canopy edge) of my large Ficus altissima. And wouldn't you know, it was frozen to the roots in 2010. It started to come back but wasn't doing much so dug it up and repotted it. After it got up to about four feet tall I planted it back in my lightly wooded area. Since then it's never been hurt (winters from 2011 to present). However, it hasn't been a fast grower for me. I doubt if it's much more than eight feet tall overall.

I just remembered that in 2010 I lost a Ficus benjamina that was about 20 feet tall. I had grown it from about a 3 gallon size. I've since replaced it with another, but it is growing so much slower than they one I lost to the freeze.

I plan on making a YouTube video of all the ficus species I'm growing. Years ago a poster here sent me some Ficus rubinginosa seeds. I have four of them planted. What I find peculiar with the various ficus seeds I've planted, is that they germinate, but then they stay small for so long, maybe up to a year or more, then they start to grow fast, or at least much faster.

Hey Walt,

I love the Ficus aureas, but I don't want mine to spread seed into any of my other plants, especially my palms.  I am just trying to grow mine as a stand alone ficus that will hopefully buttress over time and add canopy to the perimeter of my yard.  I planted it on the due north corner of my yard to hopefully become a wind break on cold winter nights for my Coconut Palms and other tender tropicals in the backyard, but I probably should have put in something a little more cold hardy.  This one came from a friend in the Palm Society who lives in Austin.  He had it and another one in the ground at his place (Austin is borderline 8B/9A) and it would freeze to the ground at his place, so he dug it up and the other one and potted them up and gave them to me.  I gave the other one to a friend in the RGV, where ficus can get bigger than here.

My Ficus benjamina does okay here even with our frosts in the winter and doesn't seem to lose any leaves from the frosts we occasionally have, but it is slow growing.  I suppose I need to water it more, since most if not all ficus come from areas that get a lot more rain than we do.  The tallest benjamina I have seen near here is one on the island that is about 14 or 15ft. tall.  Mine is about 5ft. tall and has been in the ground for about 2 years.

My other ficus is the one that has a paddle shaped leaf that looks really similar to a mistletoe leaf, only larger.   The one I have is only about 2 or 2.5ft. tall, but is about 5 to 6ft. wide.  It likes to spread out more than grow up and has already started producing aerial roots that have rooted to the ground.  It seems to be less cold hardy than the benjamina and aurea, since I had a light frost about a month ago with a temp of 33.6F and almost a whole limb that was about 4ft. long growing along the ground, had much of its leaves turn black and drop off and some of the other leaves on the tree turned partially dark brown or black.  Also, winter before this one was a CHILLY DAMP winter with 4 frosts and 2 or 3 of those what I would call heavy frosts by South Texas standards, and it lost all of its leaves, whereas my benjamina didn't seem to drop any more than it normally does each year and stayed green.

I have three other ficus, but they are in pots.  One is an elastica grown from a cutting from one growing on the island.  Another one is a nitida in 5gal. pot and is about 5ft. tall.  I really like that one, and wish I had place to plant it in the ground.  And I have some little religiosos in a 1gal. pot with an Australian pine that a palm was growing in that died.  I got the palm about 2 years ago from a nursery in the RGV.  I think it was an exotic variety that a nursery in Bayview had a few of that doesn't like cold weather at all.  I forget the name of it, but there must have been religioso seeds and an Australian Pine seed in the pot that later sprouted.  I should pot up the baby ficuses and trash the Australian Pine since they are such an invasive species, but less so here than in Florida because of our drier conditions here.

I look forward to your new videos when you get a chance to make them.

John

[Walt]

John,

I checked my Ficus aurea today and estimate it's at least 10 feet tall, maybe a few inches more. It's dropped most all of its leaves and new leaves are forming. My F. aurea is planted in a protected area and doesn't get full sun, so I'm sure that's one reason it hasn't grown as fast as it could.

I want to wait until summer before I make my ficus video, so that they all are fully leafed out. My big F. altissima is going through a total leaf change out. It almost looks like it was defoliated by a freeze, but new leaves are developing quickly. I can see a change from one day to the next. Yet, my other, almost as large F. altissima is  only dropping a small amount of leaves. I don't understand this species, but I've noticed over the years that some years they seem to drop all of their leaves, other years just a small amount of their leaves.

My coconut palm has several of the oldest fronds now collapsing. This happens every winter (at the end). I will cut them off  tomorrow. I see an inflorescence has opened up, first one of the year. I plan to fertilize this palm tomorrow with 8-2-12 palms special and water it in. Once the soil warms up this palm will start cranking out new fronds. Buy summer's end it should look great. It's just too bad this palm goes into a potassium deficiency like it does each winter, but that's the price I have to pay to have it. I'm just thankful that it wasn't defoliated this past winter. We just missed hitting 80 degrees today by a couple of tenths of a degree. Oak and pine pollen is everywhere and on everything.

[Mr. Coconut Palm]

Hey Walt,

I need to move my ficus area, since I planted it too close to the fence, and even though it would never get as big here as they can in Central and South Florida, it will still probably reach about 12 to 15ft. tall here, maybe more since Banyans can reach 30+ft. tall here.  I am just going to move it over a little further away from the fence and since it is still little, I think it should be fairly easy to do.

That's a nice inflorescence on your Green Malayan.  I will be happy if any of my Coconut Palms can ever reach fruiting maturity.  Oliver in Brownsville on my thread about Coconut Palms in the RGV planted a Coconut Palm 10 years ago at his office in Brownsville and got 3 viable nuts off of it over the last 2 years, so it is possible to get viable nuts from South Texas Coconut Palms, especially in the RGV.  They have been known to fruit here in Corpus Christi, but it remains to be seen if any of the fruits here would be viable.

John

[Walt]

1 hour ago, Mr. Coconut Palm said:

Hey Walt,

I need to move my ficus area, since I planted it too close to the fence, and even though it would never get as big here as they can in Central and South Florida, it will still probably reach about 12 to 15ft. tall here, maybe more since Banyans can reach 30+ft. tall here.  I am just going to move it over a little further away from the fence and since it is still little, I think it should be fairly easy to do.

That's a nice inflorescence on your Green Malayan.  I will be happy if any of my Coconut Palms can ever reach fruiting maturity.  Oliver in Brownsville on my thread about Coconut Palms in the RGV planted a Coconut Palm 10 years ago at his office in Brownsville and got 3 viable nuts off of it over the last 2 years, so it is possible to get viable nuts from South Texas Coconut Palms, especially in the RGV.  They have been known to fruit here in Corpus Christi, but it remains to be seen if any of the fruits here would be viable.

John

John, Since that photo the inflorescence has really opened up. Also, I gave my coconut palm a hair cut. I cut off five of the bottommost fronds that were essentially dead. The palm looks better with the dead fronds gone, but many of the other fronds have partial K deficiency. But now the soil is starting to warm up and the palm will start uptaking more K, and before long it will be cranking out some new pristine fronds. I have a small Morton Bay ficus in a pot that I took a photo of today. I plan to post it in another thread that's running now about Morton Bay ficus trees.

My biggest Ficus altissima has probably dropped 95% of it's old leaves and replaced them with new ones (but still not full size yet). About ever three days I take my pull behind leaf sweeper to get them up. But directly under the tree is a real mess of leaves.  I will need to hand rake them up, but I'm waiting until the rest come down. The tree litter maintenance around my place never ends. Oak leaves are changing out and falling fast. Also, many of my bamboo species are dropping some leaves.

Good luck with your Ficus aurea move. When I dug mine up, repotted it, then replanted it, it did well.

[Mr. Coconut Palm]

5 minutes ago, Walt said:

John, Since that photo the inflorescence has really opened up. Also, I gave my coconut palm a hair cut. I cut off five of the bottommost fronds that were essentially dead. The palm looks better with the dead fronds gone, but many of the other fronds have partial K deficiency. But now the soil is starting to warm up and the palm will start uptaking more K, and before long it will be cranking out some new pristine fronds. I have a small Morton Bay ficus in a pot that I took a photo of today. I plan to post it in another thread that's running now about Morton Bay ficus trees.

My biggest Ficus altissima has probably dropped 95% of it's old leaves and replaced them with new ones (but still not full size yet). About ever three days I take my pull behind leaf sweeper to get them up. But directly under the tree is a real mess of leaves.  I will need to hand rake them up, but I'm waiting until the rest come down. The tree litter maintenance around my place never ends. Oak leaves are changing out and falling fast. Also, many of my bamboo species are dropping some leaves.

Good luck with your Ficus aurea move. When I dug mine up, repotted it, then replanted it, it did well.

Hey Walt,

I'll look for that photo in the other thread.  My little Coconut Palms are starting to grow a little more with all the spring weather now.  The average high/low at the airport is 74F/54F and at my place I estimate the normals to be 72F/57F, but we have had a lot of highs in the upper 70's and low to mid 80'sF lately.  I will move my aurea tomorrow, since we are supposed to have our best chance of decent rain from Tuesday through Thursday, and the rain would really do it some good.

John

P.S.  You ought to leave some of your leaves on the ground as a good natural mulch (less work too) and put the rest in a compost pile.

[Walt]

2 hours ago, Mr. Coconut Palm said:

Hey Walt,

I'll look for that photo in the other thread.  My little Coconut Palms are starting to grow a little more with all the spring weather now.  The average high/low at the airport is 74F/54F and at my place I estimate the normals to be 72F/57F, but we have had a lot of highs in the upper 70's and low to mid 80'sF lately.  I will move my aurea tomorrow, since we are supposed to have our best chance of decent rain from Tuesday through Thursday, and the rain would really do it some good.

John

P.S.  You ought to leave some of your leaves on the ground as a good natural mulch (less work too) and put the rest in a compost pile.

John, I just now posted in the thread about who's growing a LHI macrophylla ficus. As far as leaves, I must police them up lest my property look unkempt. I dump some leaves that will eventually compost. But most others I burn. I'm allowed to burn yard waste (leaves, pine needles, cones, tree branches, palm fronds, etc.) in my county (subject to some conditions, such as fire size and wind conditions). My sandy soil is very acidic, so I use the ash as a lime substitute (to raise the pH) and mild fertilizer. Most wood ash has about a 50% calcium carbonate (lime) equivalency, plus it's a mild source of most minerals except nitrogen. So using the ash actually cuts down on my fertilizer and lime costs. And of course, it's a good was to dispose of the ash. The down side is that spreading ash can be a little messy, especially if you do it on a windy day (which I don't). But once watered in it's not too bad. After a few waterings it soaks into the soil.

[Mr. Coconut Palm]

14 minutes ago, Walt said:

John, I just now posted in the thread about who's growing a LHI macrophylla ficus. As far as leaves, I must police them up lest my property look unkempt. I dump some leaves that will eventually compost. But most others I burn. I'm allowed to burn yard waste (leaves, pine needles, cones, tree branches, palm fronds, etc.) in my county (subject to some conditions, such as fire size and wind conditions). My sandy soil is very acidic, so I use the ash as a lime substitute (to raise the pH) and mild fertilizer. Most wood ash has about a 50% calcium carbonate (lime) equivalency, plus it's a mild source of most minerals except nitrogen. So using the ash actually cuts down on my fertilizer and lime costs. And of course, it's a good was to dispose of the ash. The down side is that spreading ash can be a little messy, especially if you do it on a windy day (which I don't). But once watered in it's not too bad. After a few waterings it soaks into the soil.

Good way to recycle, Walt.  Here, my yard is too small to do that and I live in the city limits, so it wouldn't be allowed anyway.  I think we are under a burn ban in South Texas again, as it looks like we are heading back into drought.  We haven't had any significant rainfall in Corpus Christi for about 8 weeks now, but they say we have a good chance of rain next week, but I will have to see that to believe it.  They kept saying all winter that we were going to have a wet and cool winter, yet it has been anything but that- very mild and very dry.  In fact, this winter was so mild that I actually planted 5 of my Coconut Palms, my Carpentaria Palms, and my Coccothrinax, along with some other palms and plants in the ground in January, and normally, I wouldn't even think of planting such cold sensitive palms and other plants until the end of Feb. or early Mar.

John

[kinzyjr]

Giving this one a bump since we have another cold snap on the way after a dreary January.  While it's not the news anyone wants, the next cold snap shouldn't be as bad as this one 126 years ago.  

An additional link on this topic:

https://www.palmtalk.org/forum/topic/59377-1899-arctic-outbreak-peer-reviewed-abstract/

This Google Map I made has a layer for the 1899 Valentine's Day freeze as well: http://tinyurl.com/4twhncp3

[flplantguy]

With the snow in the panhandle this year similar to that event i think much of the peninsula got lucky and had development bump from urban heating. With brooksville at 23 (only slightly below norm) and the rest of the area pretty much shaking it off, the depth of cold weather systems seems shallower and less able to take over.  One can hope lol. 

[Walt]

Even in my cold hell hole I managed to have a 10b winter.  I will take a week to 10 days of below average temperatures in January any day rather than just one night of below freezing temperatures with frost. I think it was Feb. 14th 2006 when I had heavy frost and 27 degrees. The frost really damaged a lot of palm foliage. I referred to that day as the St. Valentines Day massacre. 

[Sabal_Louisiana]

The thing about these historic cold events of the late 1800s: 

There has been some lecture and study on the after effects of the massive Krakatoa explosion that occurred in 1883. The cooling that followed from the results of massive amounts of ash and sulfur dioxide into the Earth's atmosphere is believed to have lasted for decades. and it did at least probably influence climate patterns during the 1890s.  However, the 1920s and 1930s were quite warm across the US for the most part so, I'm not so sure.

Not many people realize that The Feb 1899 event was preceded by cold air in the Western US, with 9F in Portland, OR and 33F at Los Angeles. When the last, massive 1060+ mb high poured down into the US from NW Canada, the 60 to 70 mph winds in the Plains ensured that modification would be minimal. The previous cold waves of early February also set the stage by producing a massive snowpack across much of the eastern US. Though especially severe, it did not last long. A couple of days after Valentine's Day, temperatures were in the 60s in places across the South which had just seen zero.

 

[flplantguy]

I've noticed that about some of those huge events. They were two days down here and then done.  No matter the ultimate low the event lasts the same amount of time, three days of cold lows tops before moderation begins. The rest of those winters was also pretty warm outside the one event, making it worse i think.  Kinda hard to point to variables with certainty too, which drives me crazy, i like answers lol. Volcano or climate change, it just shows how little control we have as individuals over it, and why understanding what we can is so important.  Maybe one day we can have technology that will impede the worst of it and save crops and lives, if it doesnt stop on its own.