2 hours ago, Sanips said:

Good! very productive lil' palm.

If you want more pollen maybe you could ask for it in a spanish forum such as infojardin.com, there're very friendly palm buddies.

Good luck!

That's a good idea Sanips! Only I had just 3 months of Spanish lessons at school and that's about 20 years ago... But today we have google so I might just give it a try.

20 minutes ago, Kai said:

That's a good idea Sanips! Only I had just 3 months of Spanish lessons at school and that's about 20 years ago... But today we have google so I might just give it a try.

Don't worry about the language, I could help you... Even though I'm sure your Spanish is better than my Dutch 

Defrosting some of the Butia pollen...

Soft pencil with Butia pollen on it. This is very exciting!

Since I couldn’t see an emerging cotyledon even 40 days after germination I was very concerned  if my only one Lytocaryum batavum were viable. So I dug it out of the pot and ……  I gave a sigh of relieve: It was looking very healthy.  And the reason why the cotyledon didn’t become visible was this: Lytocaryum batavum is a REMOTE germinator! And so we have really a different species from L weddellianum  which has according to Genera Palmarum (1987: 497) an “adjacent-ligular” germination. 

14 minutes ago, Pal Meir said:

Since I couldn’t see an emerging cotyledon even 40 days after germination I was very concerned  if my only one Lytocaryum batavum were viable. So I dug it out of the pot and ……  I gave a sigh of relieve: It was looking very healthy.  And the reason why the cotyledon didn’t become visible was this: Lytocaryum batavum is a REMOTE germinator! And so we have really a different species from L weddellianum  which has according to Genera Palmarum (1987: 497) an “adjacent-ligular” germination. 

How is this possible?

I'm sure I didn't pollinate with some other species pollen!

42 minutes ago, Kai said:

How is this possible?

I'm sure I didn't pollinate with some other species pollen!

When you google under “lytocaryum batavum” you get an answer, but not to your question: 

20 hours ago, Kai said:

Soft pencil with Butia pollen on it. This is very exciting!

Fingers crossed!

3 hours ago, Pal Meir said:

Since I couldn’t see an emerging cotyledon even 40 days after germination I was very concerned  if my only one Lytocaryum batavum were viable. So I dug it out of the pot and ……  I gave a sigh of relieve: It was looking very healthy.  And the reason why the cotyledon didn’t become visible was this: Lytocaryum batavum is a REMOTE germinator! And so we have really a different species from L weddellianum  which has according to Genera Palmarum (1987: 497) an “adjacent-ligular” germination. 

Pretty rare! Did you germinate it under different conditions than previous seeds?

Fingers crossed indeed!

I repeat the brushing several times a day untill the flowers are no longer receptive. That way I know I have done everything within my power to make this work.

And labeled of course! You must never forget the person who took the time and effort to make it all possible!

2 hours ago, Sanips said:

Fingers crossed!

Pretty rare! Did you germinate it under different conditions than previous seeds?

As you can see on my post from 2017-06-04 in this thread I didn’t do anything special: Kokohum® and temps around 25°C. Even “normal” Lyto weddell (and L insigne or L hoehnei, too) are not real adjacent germinators but only “nearly adjacent”, because they all have a ±short seed petiole.

9 minutes ago, Kai said:

Fingers crossed indeed!

I repeat the brushing several times a day untill the flowers are no longer receptive. That way I know I have done everything within my power to make this work.

And labeled of course! You must never forget the person who took the time and effort to make it all possible!

What will be the name? Lytocutia? 

Or: Cocos weddelliana x odorata? 

6 minutes ago, Pal Meir said:

What will be the name? Lytocutia? 

I have to think about this. I like this name but how does it work with hybrids? Does the name of the palm carrying the fruits come first and pollen donor second, or the other way around?

11 minutes ago, Kai said:

I have to think about this. I like this name but how does it work with hybrids? Does the name of the palm carrying the fruits come first and pollen donor second, or the other way around?

E.g. Butiagrus is Butia odorata (Female) x Syagrus romanzoffiana (Male).

7 hours ago, Pal Meir said:

Since I couldn’t see an emerging cotyledon even 40 days after germination I was very concerned  if my only one Lytocaryum batavum were viable. So I dug it out of the pot and ……  I gave a sigh of relieve: It was looking very healthy.  And the reason why the cotyledon didn’t become visible was this: Lytocaryum batavum is a REMOTE germinator! And so we have really a different species from L weddellianum  which has according to Genera Palmarum (1987: 497) an “adjacent-ligular” germination. 

It appears my seedlings from the 2nd inflorescense are behaving the same but I haven't noticed it before.

Don't forget, I sent you pollen for the red fruited butia & the yellow fruited butia..

32 minutes ago, Laaz said:

Don't forget, I sent you pollen for the red fruited butia & the yellow fruited butia..

Yes I know. For this inflorescense I only used the yellow variant. The red I'm keeping for future inflorescense.

I’ve dissected one of the non-viable seeds with my chain saw:  The embryo seems to be underdeveloped (and the interior cavity is extremely small):

The cotyledon of my only one seedling is now emerging out of the depth of the Ø8xH9 cm pot:

An examination of my other photos makes me come to a different conclusion: Lytocaryum batavum appears to be a REMOTE-TUBULAR germinator as most Syagrus spp; cf. Noblick 2017: 10.

Great documentation Pal! I'll try to find pictures of the germinated seed which is now the motherplant. I wonder if it was a remote-tubular germinator as well... When I find something interesting in my archive I'll post it.

For comparison a pic of Lytocaryum insigne which was mentioned by Noblick (2017: 10) as example for adjacent-ligular germination:

And for comparison with a real Lytocaryum weddellianum (≠ batavum) a pic of the adjacent-ligular germination:

PS: That seedling was hidden, (too) deep in the soil. 

As you can see a lot of pollen sticks to the soft pencil. This method is much better to work with than the cotton sticks that I used previously. The cotton gets entangled with the little flowers and in no time the cotton stick looks more like '70's afro. I doubted at first if the pencil would hold the pollen but when I look closely I can see little dustclouds of pollen coming off it when I'm working the inflorescense. So I'm pretty sure that if there is no seedset, it won't be the method to blame.

Meanwhile, I'm getting a good feeling about this inflorescense. It starts off with 58 female flowers. If only half of them would develop, I'd be infinitly delighted!

3 hours ago, Kai said:

As you can see a lot of pollen sticks to the soft pencil. This method is much better to work with than the cotton sticks that I used previously. The cotton gets entangled with the little flowers and in no time the cotton stick looks more like '70's afro. I doubted at first if the pencil would hold the pollen but when I look closely I can see little dustclouds of pollen coming off it when I'm working the inflorescense. So I'm pretty sure that if there is no seedset, it won't be the method to blame.

Meanwhile, I'm getting a good feeling about this inflorescense. It starts off with 58 female flowers. If only half of them would develop, I'd be infinitly delighted!

It very instructive how you improve your method. It seems a succesful pollination, you're a Lyto Whisperer

4 hours ago, Kai said:

As you can see a lot of pollen sticks to the soft pencil. This method is much better to work with than the cotton sticks that I used previously. The cotton gets entangled with the little flowers and in no time the cotton stick looks more like '70's afro. I doubted at first if the pencil would hold the pollen but when I look closely I can see little dustclouds of pollen coming off it when I'm working the inflorescense. So I'm pretty sure that if there is no seedset, it won't be the method to blame.

Meanwhile, I'm getting a good feeling about this inflorescense. It starts off with 58 female flowers. If only half of them would develop, I'd be infinitly delighted!

It is exactly the same method I had used in the past successfully for pollinating e.g. my Chamaedorea metallica (and others). 

25 minutes ago, Pal Meir said:

It is exactly the same method I had used in the past successfully for pollinating e.g. my Chamaedorea metallica (and others). 

I have used a cotton stick as well for a C. metallica. This got me 12 seedlings. I wonder if I had gotten more seeds with a brush. The C. metallica pollen is very sticky by the way.

23 minutes ago, Kai said:

I have used a cotton stick as well for a C. metallica. This got me 12 seedlings. I wonder if I had gotten more seeds with a brush. The C. metallica pollen is very sticky by the way.

In the case of Rhapis laosensis it didn’t work; so I tried it by blowing the pollen into the flower simulating the wind.

23 hours ago, Pal Meir said:

And for comparison with a real Lytocaryum weddellianum (≠ batavum) a pic of the adjacent-ligular germination:

PS: That seedling was hidden, (too) deep in the soil. 

All I could find from the time I germinated the seed which grew into the motherplant are 2 foto's:

It might be just an extraordinairy form of Lytocaryum weddellianum? Maybe the seeds came from a different region? I have no idea and no way of finding out.

It is not so special. I had lots of seedlings with a (±nearly) remote (-tubular/ligular?) germination. As I wrote before even the cases of “adjacent-ligular” germination are not adjacent in the strict sense because there is always a well visible shorter or longer seed petiole.

It appears the flowers are no longer receptive and I feel I have done all I can to ensure the highest chance on a good seedset.

So now the waiting game can begin. Let's see if, and how many of these will grow into seeds!

A miracle after 47 (!!!) days, the last one week not in Kokohum but only in water: 

25 minutes ago, Pal Meir said:

A miracle after 47 (!!!) days, the last one week not in Kokohum but only in water: 

Aren't you glad you didn't disect that little froggy!

23 minutes ago, Kai said:

Aren't you glad you didn't disect that little froggy!

You mean I’ve killed a viable seed? 

1 minute ago, Pal Meir said:

You mean I’ve killed a viable seed? 

No I don't think so. By the looks of it, you picked a non viable seed to cut open. And it was a very informative picture!

And after further 3 days in water (i.e. after 50 days since 2017-06-03): N°1703 germinated. I had never such experience with fresh L weddell seeds; in most cases they sprouted even too early. Perhaps those later two seeds had too little water inside the endosperm?  Now there is only one seed left, still in water … 

This all is quite the learning experience!

L x B still hanging on...

L x B nothing changed...which is good...

New inflorescence is demasculated and I'm awaiting for it to become receptive. I have queen pollen ready for it.

Today is a warm and somewhat humid day with hardly any wind in Amsterdam. A perfect day to get the Lyto outside for some clouded sunlight. I think it can use all the light it can get when fruiting.

Trying to ensure as many seeds as possible. The seeds are expected to ripen off somewhere in our cold and dark winter and in those days it will be inside permanently. I'm currently on the lookout for a growing lamp to hang above it when the days shorten. Any suggestions?

1 hour ago, Kai said:

Today is a warm and somewhat humid day with hardly any wind in Amsterdam. A perfect day to get the Lyto outside for some clouded sunlight. I think it can use all the light it can get when fruiting.

Trying to ensure as many seeds as possible. The seeds are expected to ripen off somewhere in our cold and dark winter and in those days it will be inside permanently. I'm currently on the lookout for a growing lamp to hang above it when the days shorten. Any suggestions?

I would propose a halogen reading lamp, 50 W, but c. 3 m high: