Planted 20+ years ago, I have two queens that got to go. They were planted to develop a quick canopy so the slower more tender stuff had an opportunity to establish. Originally there were 5 but now down to two. The original game plan was that they would be removed after 5 years. Now I'm stuck with two huge monsters. The last one removed was several years ago and was a tremendous amount of work by myself. To hire someone to remove them that knew what they were doing would be prohibitively expensive.

Putting on my thinking cap, I decided to just kill them as they stood and let gravity bring down the crown as it decomposes over time. The trunks will take much longer.

Next question how do I kill such a healthy robust palm? A herbicide drench around the roots would surely kill everything else around it. With my luck the queen would survive while everything else carked - nix that option.

Apply herbicide to the crown ? If access to the crown was so easy to apply the herbicide, I'd just mechanically dispatch the crown. Access is not easy so a defoliant herbicide would have to be applied from below. Herbicide drift would probably kill every thing else and the queen could potentially survive - nix that option.

Resolution: If my recollection of palm biology is correct, a palm cannot survive without a connected cambium. The cambium transports minerals, nutrients and water to the leaves so sugar and proteins can be manufactured. The cambium transports the needed sugars and proteins down to the roots to maintain their health. The cambium is located just under the outer surface of the trunk. Inside that are the vascular bundles that provides trunk rigidness, stores carbohydrates and water.

Action taken: Scour completely around the trunk twice at a distance 9 inches apart. Then using a wood chisel, remove approximately 1/8 of an inch of the outer trunk tissue. That should remove the cambium and thus cause the eventual demise of the palm once all its stored carbohydrates have been used.

Theory: Its an application of a theory,currently being tested. Curious if others may agree with it?

Let us know the outcome! There's a gigantic queen in the front landscape of my parents' new house that I want to replace with a Kentiopsis, but the big problem is removing it.

Why don't you just inject herbicide into the trunk? It sounds strange that in all these years you don't have a friend who is a trusted arborist... I have an uncle who is a certified arborist; he might charge me 50 or $60 bucks to remove the head(all that is needed). What's even more perplexing is how a working man like Moose can't afford that kind of cheese... maybe you are just into experiments and money is not really the issue? If that's the case, keep us informed--your theory is sound, but I have done this same 'experiment' with a seagrape and to absolutely NO avail. Would you like me to PM you my uncle's number?

Let us know the outcome! There's a gigantic queen in the front landscape of my parents' new house that I want to replace with a Kentiopsis, but the big problem is removing it.

I know Moose is aware of this as he hinted to it in the past, but I maintain palm trunks can be some of the best nests for many many interesting birds and animals. From bees to bats to big barn owls--these trunks are not permanent but for as long as they stand, they are great wildlife habitats--cut the head out and let nature do the rest

Let me just say one more thing, Moose, I commend you for knowing Queen palms do not have a place in Mooseland. for being proactive.

2 things:

1. You shouldn't be able to girdle a palm because its a monocot. Vascular system is dispersed throughout the trunk.

2. You should be able to drill a holes in the trunk and apply a herbicide like garlon, which will kill the plant outright. Garlon doesn't need to be applied to foliage, like roundup.

Garlon and similar herbicides aren't usually available over the counter so you'd need to find someone who has access to it. Only a small amount will kill a tree.

How the heck you know garlon?! I thought that the equivalent in the States is the crossbow! Very dangerous for other palms too, since it's fumes are active...

Lifted this pic off the web so I hope I'm not breaking any rules...

Dicot vascular tissue is on the outside of the trunk under the bark.

Monocot vascular tissue is dispersed throughout the trunk.

How the heck you know garlon?! I thought that the equivalent in the States is the crossbow! Very dangerous for other palms too, since it's fumes are active...

Many of my friends are involved in natural resources management which often involves getting rid of invasive plants. They use garlon in certain situations. As long as you follow the instructions and don't spill it on any other plants, it will only kill the plant it it has been applied on. I've used it before on some particularly nasty invasive trees, including Broussonetia papyrifera (paper mulberry). Works great.

Phoenikakias is right though, its pretty much going to kill any plant it gets on...

Garlon and similar herbicides aren't usually available over the counter so you'd need to find someone who has access to it. Only a small amount will kill a tree.

Tank--that's what I was saying. Garlon is what my uncle uses--is that the same stuff they paint on stumps to kill them, after cutting?

Garlon and similar herbicides aren't usually available over the counter so you'd need to find someone who has access to it. Only a small amount will kill a tree.

Tank--that's what I was saying. Garlon is what my uncle uses--is that the same stuff they paint on stumps to kill them, after cutting?

Girdling should work on a seagrape as it is a dicot, although the plant will pop back up as they liberally produce runners from the roots.

Not sure about the stuff they put on stumps although it may be garlon or something similar. You don't need to paint garlon on as only a little applied to a fresh wound will kill a stump. Stuff is very expensive.

I'm proudly keeping my triple Queens. After the next 1989 freeze visits sooner than later, it may be the only pinnate palm planted out that has a chance of surviving .

Moose:

The best way, if you can, is to behead it first. Cut off all the leaves, then chop off the terminal bud.

That might cost some dough, but it will be less expensive than chopping the whole thing, especially if you have other plants around it.

I've heard that a good sousing with glyphosate into the top will also work. Don't know about the base, but it's worth a try.

Let us know what you do.

I'm proudly keeping my triple Queens. After the next 1989 freeze visits sooner than later, it may be the only pinnate palm planted out that has a chance of surviving .

Ray, you are in a whole other world than me--my advice does not apply to your neck of the woods. Having said that, I would still prefer a Mule palm over a Queen. A Silver Mule palm(B. odorata X S. coronata), even better.

Those queen trunks, at least in my climate just won't decompose. I cut the heads off of three mature queens over ten years ago and the trunks are still here and as hard and sturdy as ever. They're behind thick foliage and bamboo so I don't see them but, man, I thought they would be gone by now. There is even green showing in their trunks! Queens are tough. I will keep the remaining monsters as they are just too valuable as canopy and they look pretty darned nice anyway.

Also, find a tree company that will send up a climber. A decent climber will remove all of the leaves and then chunk the tree down in 2' sections, dropping each section right at the base. I took out a 100' Loblolly pine that was in a very tight spot in my back yard. Hit by lightning. They climbed to the top, set up a zip line connected on the ground to a bobcat and zipped all of the branches over my yard down to the street, using the bobcat to tension the line that was connected on the other end at the top of the tree. Once all of the branches were off and they basically were left with a pole, they chunked the tree down from the top in 3' sections, dropping each section at the base of the tree. My old green house was about 10' away and I didn't have any damage from the removal. Guy at the bottom was continuously moving the chunks out of the way while the other guy was cutting.

Should find a price for under $200, especially if they don't have to remove the debris.

Maybe someone would want all the wood for tikis.....

I killed accidentally three Sabal with garlon in my garden. I have not spilled it on any of the victims, only on some feral olivetree stumps. Nevertheless three Sabal died also, and those were the ones with (theoretically) the most extensive root system among my Sabal (a louisisana, a brazoria, and a mexicana), either because they belong to S minor team or because they were eldest ones. Obviously roots came to contact with garlon solution through the soil...

Queen of Doom 3.JPG

Just how ppl used to kill pines here. This season it will have explosive growth and then ...zip...nada....

just let me take care of it for a month. it will be dead in no time

Garlon or chopper 1 or 2 drilled and injected. Good luck with it.

Moose:

The best way, if you can, is to behead it first. Cut off all the leaves, then chop off the terminal bud.

That might cost some dough, but it will be less expensive than chopping the whole thing, especially if you have other plants around it.

I've heard that a good sousing with glyphosate into the top will also work. Don't know about the base, but it's worth a try.

Let us know what you do.

The beheading routine is referred to as a Mary Queen of Scots Second Coronation . . . .

Those queen trunks, at least in my climate just won't decompose. I cut the heads off of three mature queens over ten years ago and the trunks are still here and as hard and sturdy as ever. They're behind thick foliage and bamboo so I don't see them but, man, I thought they would be gone by now. There is even green showing in their trunks! Queens are tough. I will keep the remaining monsters as they are just too valuable as canopy and they look pretty darned nice anyway.

They sure are tough.

They will stop heavy trucks, or at least slow them down. Kings (crack!).

They are also favored as pier pilings, and "shipworms" (toredos) won't touch them. They also don't burn well in the fireplace.

Wow quite the unexpected response.

first Dooms Dave - if I could have Mary Queen of Scots the head, it would have been done already. Its over 30 ft of clear trunk and would be difficult accessing it from my roof with an extension ladder. With nothing to tie off to and some slippage - a falling Mr, Moose would be a very unhappy Moose.

Tank - $200 per tree for a climber and I remove the debris - I'd do it in a heartbeat. No such pricing here with a licensed insured operation. We got more attorney's here per capital then anywhere else in the country. They are like Barracuda in the ocean stacked up, lurking for prey to pounce on. I'm sure liability insurance here is rather pricey. I don't think a climber would do the job because they don't work above their heads. Don't see how they could work from within the crown but a could be wrong.

Jim - it takes about 7 years for queen trunk to sit in all our heat and humidity before it can be pushed over.

Andrew - I do leave the trunks for the wild life. There is a 20+ footer standing log out in front swale that used to be a gigantic Norfolk Island Pine that was inherited when I bought the house. Just pushed over my last rotting palm trunk yesterday.

Tank - you say the girding won't work, I really wanted to kill it organically not chemically. I'm not a total no chemicals in my garden kind, I do use them but I'm really trying to limit their use as much as possible. Looks I'm may just have to paint on some secret sauce on the girded area that I don't really have because I'm not licensed to possess that I have never used on strangler figs that refuse to die - until they got painted.

Andrew - I do know some arborists and friends don't expect friends to work for free. This palm is not an easy job and no one would take on such a job for $60. Just would not happen. I got an AA buddy who would do it in a second if he could maneuver his cherry picker to get at it but its a no go. He don't climb anymore unless an offer he can't refuse is made. Says there is just too much cherry picker work available and is much less fatiguing then climbing.

Onward through the fog ...

Moose:

The best way, if you can, is to behead it first. Cut off all the leaves, then chop off the terminal bud.

That might cost some dough, but it will be less expensive than chopping the whole thing, especially if you have other plants around it.

I've heard that a good sousing with glyphosate into the top will also work. Don't know about the base, but it's worth a try.

Let us know what you do.

The beheading routine is referred to as a Mary Queen of Scots Second Coronation . . . .

For a second there... I though she was a royal...

I would have just drilled a nice size hole halfway into the trunk at a 45 degree angle downward and poured in a little undiluted 2,4D.

I would have just drilled a nice size hole halfway into the trunk at a 45 degree angle downward and poured in a little undiluted 2,4D.

Would that be work the same as Agent Orange No. 5

I would have just drilled a nice size hole halfway into the trunk at a 45 degree angle downward and poured in a little undiluted 2,4D.

Would that be work the same as Agent Orange No. 5

Well you would have to add 2,4,5-T. Dioxin, whatever the hell that is. I am sure both will kill you if you drink enough of them. Of course certain folks are certain that if it is sprayed within 10 miles of you, you are dead. Heck if I know, but I do know that if it kills you, it takes a long time as my 82 year old Dad used plenty of it in his gardening days and he is still healthy.

I had a 22-yr old queen that got so high that I couldn't prune it anymore and started looking thin. It towered over a 2-story house and was nothing more than a 2-foot diameter telephone pole with pretty bad spike and saw damage to the trunk from years of careless pruning by previous owners. No canopy worth mentioning. It did cost me a few hundred, but it was worth it, as I can now re-landscape the area below as I please.

And finally grind away the stump:

http://www.google.com/search?q=copper+spike&client=ms-android-verizon&site=webhp&source=lnms&tbm=shop&sa=X&ei=gou4VJrWMoayoQSoloKABA&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAQ&biw=360&bih=615&dpr=2#spd=7570358018665698341opper spike....always heard that it would work....never tried it

http://www.google.com/search?q=copper+spike&client=ms-android-verizon&site=webhp&source=lnms&tbm=shop&sa=X&ei=gou4VJrWMoayoQSoloKABA&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAQ&biw=360&bih=615&dpr=2#spd=7570358018665698341opper spike....always heard that it would work....never tried it

So, a copper bullet,,,,. Hmmm

Researched a little bit.....seems that it would take quite a few copper nails to adversely effect the tree....and would probably take too long.

Second idea......drill big deep hole .....mix salt and motor oil fill it up and put a cork in it. I've used salt and motor oil on popcorn trees with good results.

Moose, so obtuse, you didn't say Mary the Queen was 30 feet (10 M) tall.

drilling holes and pouring herbicide down them is a very effective and cheap way to kill a palm tree with fast results. Bust out the chisels and carve a couple tikis.

drilling holes and pouring herbicide down them is a very effective and cheap way to kill a palm tree with fast results. Bust out the chisels and carve a couple tikis.

Researched a little bit.....seems that it would take quite a few copper nails to adversely effect the tree....and would probably take too long.

Second idea......drill big deep hole .....mix salt and motor oil fill it up and put a cork in it. I've used salt and motor oil on popcorn trees with good results.

David - Motor oil I'm not a so sold on. Could I substitute muriatic acid ? That could cause some unhappiness to the trunk tissues.

The copper nails is an old school method. Suppose to cause copper toxicity and does take time. It is a good method if you wanted to discretely get rid of a tree, the slow action of its decline does not draw attention as fast acting methods. A buddy of mine in Cooper City, FL wanted to get rid of some Black Olive trees in his front easement. He wanted to replace them with oaks and was willing to install some large 95 gallon trees on his dime. Went to the city to pull a permit for the tree removal with the proposal of the replacement. He was denied, seemed it was the City's agenda to keep all the easement trees a mono-culture. A beautiful native denied, crappy black olive - yes. Amazing how often decision makers in municipalities have such limited knowledge when it comes to plants.

The copper nail technique was implemented. He would also discretely splash chlorine and muriatic acid around the base of the trunk from time to time. A Black Olive is a very resilient tree so it did take a couple of years until its eventual demise. He then contacted the city after its death, telling them that lightning killed it. Voicing concerns about safety and liability, the city came out and removed both trees. After some time he contacted the city to inquire when the trees would be replaced. "Not in the budget". Then he planted the oaks and nothing was ever said - bureaucracy can be so amusing

Pando's pics are great. Worst part is getting the crown off. After that... I bet that guy had the tree down in 30 min. Moose, when I said $200, that was for both. Probably $400 with complete debris removal and cleanup. As long as they don't have to bring in any equipment (or if they own it), tree work in relatively inexpensive. Prices are definitely different up here in the sticks, at least for that type of stuff. Good luck!

Moose,

I think the best way for you is to have someone climb and top the tree. Not having to remove the debris should reduce the price to very reasonable levels.

You cannot girdle the palm with your method of removing the epidermal trunk tissue.

You could send a letter to either Mr. Lightning or Mr. Ganoderma, inviting them to remove it for free, but these people are notoriously unreliable and they sometimes cause more damage than you were expectorating.

Drilling a hole and filling it with herbicide and other nasties should probably work. One caveat is that you have provided a nice spot of dead tissue low on the trunk. If a hurricane or even a strong thunderstorm comes along after the palm dies, it may be a convenient breaking point causing 20 feet of palm trunk to come crashing down wherever the wind blows it.

Here is a way that will work for you. Start the video at about 2:10.

I think the motor oil is to keep the salt from washing away quickly. The salt is the real killer. Herbicide like Roundup use various other salts in their mixture?

Making sure you don't salt the earth....would be hard to grow stuff in that spot in the future.