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Which is hardier, Beccariophoenix alfredii or a Mule Palm?

palmhort

By palmhort
in COLD HARDY PALMS

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palmhort Enthusiast

palmhort

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Despite being the coldest night of the season, I'm contemplating ordering some unique palms for Spring and want to know...which would be hardier with protection; Beccariophoenix alfredii or a Mule Palm for z7b NJ? Also what is/are the best mail order companies to order these from?

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Zeeth Grand Master

Zeeth

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Mule palm by far. B. alfredii is a 9b palm that hates frost. It can be pushed into 9a if preparations are made to prevent frost on it's leaves, but I would definitely go with a mule palm in a climate as cold as yours.

Keith 

Palmetto, Florida (10a) and Tampa, Florida (9b/10a)

Palmetto.gif

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_Keith Grand Master

_Keith

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Mule without doubt. And by a good zone or more.

In my post I sometimes express "my" opinion. Warning, it may differ from "your" opinion. If so, please do not feel insulted, just state your own if you wish. Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or any other damages

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DoomsDave Grand Master

DoomsDave

Posted
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Mule, definitely.

Buteas grow in Virginia Beach, VA, and, I've heard, points north.

Let's keep our forum fun and friendly.

Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or lost profits or revenue, claims by third parties or for other similar costs, or any special, incidental, or consequential damages arising out of my opinion or the use of this data. The accuracy or reliability of the data is not guaranteed or warranted in any way and I disclaim liability of any kind whatsoever, including, without limitation, liability for quality, performance, merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose arising out of the use, or inability to use my data. Other terms may apply.

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SubTropicRay Grand Master

SubTropicRay

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B. alfredii has a reputation for being cold hardy but has anyone actually verified this? Has anyone planted one and had it tolerate 25F (-4C) with 14 hours below freezing, without damage? That would be cold hardy for 9b. Anything less is comparable to any marginal zone 9 palm. I'm very skeptical about this reputed cold hardiness.

As far as hardiness, I'd definitely say the X Butiagrus is much hardier.

Tampa, Interbay Peninsula, Florida, USA

subtropical USDA Zone 10A

Bokeelia, Pine Island, Florida, USA

subtropical USDA Zone 10B

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gyuseppe Veteran

gyuseppe

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B. alfredii has a reputation for being cold hardy but has anyone actually verified this? Has anyone planted one and had it tolerate 25F with 14 hours below freezing, without damage? That would be cold hardy for 9b. Anything less is comparable to any marginal zone 9 palm.

As far as hardiness, I'd definitely say the X Butiagrus is much hardier.

Hello Ray!
to me,are died at -2 degrees below zero (degrees celsius)

GIUSEPPE

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palmhort Enthusiast

palmhort

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Thanks for all your replies....a Mule it is! Any recommended mail order nurseries where I could get one?

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Peoria Palms Apprentice

Peoria Palms

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Thanks for all your replies....a Mule it is! Any recommended mail order nurseries where I could get one?

I sent you a pm

Steve

Peoria AZ

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_Keith Grand Master

_Keith

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http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?/user/1930-eriksji/

In my post I sometimes express "my" opinion. Warning, it may differ from "your" opinion. If so, please do not feel insulted, just state your own if you wish. Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or any other damages

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Sandy Loam Veteran

Sandy Loam

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Hello Palmhort. Others on this forum may differ from me, but I wouldn't recommend planting ANY palm in New Jersey. It is too cold up there. If you really wanted to try something, then go for one of the really cold-hardy palms, like chamaerops humilis, trachycarpus fortunei, sabal palmetto, butia odorata, etc. I would not try a mule palm in New Jersey. In fact, I have never seen any palm growing in New Jersey, although I have heard that you can grow certain running bamboos (not the clumping ones) in coastal New Jersey and they will survive. That may be an alternative if you are trying to create a tropical look.

Good luck.

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_Keith Grand Master

_Keith

Posted
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http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2008/07/hardy_species_of_trees_bring_t.html

http://www.bg-map.com/palms/woodbury.html

In my post I sometimes express "my" opinion. Warning, it may differ from "your" opinion. If so, please do not feel insulted, just state your own if you wish. Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or any other damages

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palmhort Enthusiast

palmhort

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Lol, Thanks _Keith for those clips! @SandyLoam- while it is extremely challenging, it IS possible to have palms grow here. Although I lost two large (6ft) Windmills last winter, I have many Sabal minors growing in the ground with no protection whatsoever....they are extremely tough. I have a Needle Palm, a Chamaerops, some Musa basjoo and some other subtropicals. BTW, I went to school at UF...lots of good memories there!

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DoomsDave Grand Master

DoomsDave

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Alfredii are tough, though. 25 FF for a night, no damage, no yellowing.

Let's keep our forum fun and friendly.

Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or lost profits or revenue, claims by third parties or for other similar costs, or any special, incidental, or consequential damages arising out of my opinion or the use of this data. The accuracy or reliability of the data is not guaranteed or warranted in any way and I disclaim liability of any kind whatsoever, including, without limitation, liability for quality, performance, merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose arising out of the use, or inability to use my data. Other terms may apply.

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Stevetoad Grand Master

Stevetoad

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b.alfredii can take frost. mine takes frost every year. as a small plant it would show damage. but now at about 6 foot it does great with no damage. mine saw 5 nights straight below 32f with 2 nights hitting 26f and that was 2 years ago. the olny damage it got lately was when i cut back a banana that was shading it and it got some sun damage this summer (that move also killed my allogoptra)

With that being said Mules are by far hardier

"it's not dead it's sleeping"

Santee ca, zone10a/9b

18 miles from the ocean

avg. winter 68/40.avg summer 88/64.records 113/25

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_Keith Grand Master

_Keith

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My alfredii, still young, but with another year of establishment behind them seem at this point to have been unfazed by the 24 degrees we just experience. One thing that helped was that this front came in dry, not wet as is usually the case. And, I'll make the disclaimer that cold damage sometimes takes weeks to show its ugly head. All of that said I have high hopes for them here. Sooner or later, they will face 19-21 and then we shall see. I would give them 50-50 odds at those temps of surviving.

But again, as for Mules, they laugh at 19-21.

In my post I sometimes express "my" opinion. Warning, it may differ from "your" opinion. If so, please do not feel insulted, just state your own if you wish. Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or any other damages

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John Case Grand Master

John Case

Posted
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4 years in the ground each year 25 degrees, some browntipping,.....but they come back strong!

John Case

Brentwood CA

Owner and curator of Hana Keu Garden

USDA Zone 9b more or less, Sunset Zone 14 in winter 9 in summer

"Its always exciting the first time you save the world. Its a real thrill!"

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Ben in Norcal Grand Master

Ben in Norcal

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Small B. alfredii will show damage out in the open in warm 9b...great plants but not even in the same hardiness stratosphere as mules.

Ben Rogers

On the border of Concord & Clayton in the East Bay hills - Elev 387 ft 37.95 °N, 121.94 °W

My back yard weather station: http://www.wunderground.com/cgi-bin/findweather/hdfForecast?query=37.954%2C-121.945&sp=KCACONCO37

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_Keith Grand Master

_Keith

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Small B. alfredii will show damage out in the open in warm 9b...great plants but not even in the same hardiness stratosphere as mules.

Yes, I should add that mine are under the outer canopy of a Live Oak. I would not dare put them out fully exposed here in a 9a climate.

In my post I sometimes express "my" opinion. Warning, it may differ from "your" opinion. If so, please do not feel insulted, just state your own if you wish. Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or any other damages

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Ben in Norcal Grand Master

Ben in Norcal

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Jury is still out on my 6 foot plant out in the open here, Keith...looking forward to seeing how they do at this larger size!

Ben Rogers

On the border of Concord & Clayton in the East Bay hills - Elev 387 ft 37.95 °N, 121.94 °W

My back yard weather station: http://www.wunderground.com/cgi-bin/findweather/hdfForecast?query=37.954%2C-121.945&sp=KCACONCO37

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John Case Grand Master

John Case

Posted
Posted

Mules have the cold weather advantage....end of story....

John Case

Brentwood CA

Owner and curator of Hana Keu Garden

USDA Zone 9b more or less, Sunset Zone 14 in winter 9 in summer

"Its always exciting the first time you save the world. Its a real thrill!"

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