So maybe there's a reason these things aren't seen much up here. Is it really worth it to keep going with this palm? Take a look, it looks terrible, and that's not frost damage, because it didn't get exposed to any. It only got to 33F in last Dec's freeze where it's planted, and I actually took the time to enclose it with reflective bubble wrap.

I had high hopes for this thing. I planted it in July, it had not grown at all in the pot in Southern California, but once freed in the soil it took off with a vengeance even in Central Calif conditions opening three fronds in a row. Then, as soon as the sun angle dropped around early October, it parked. If it's gonna look like this, it's not worth it. To keep or not to keep, that is the question. I could put a nice archie right there. Well, I think I've already made up my mind but if someone's done this before and knows they grow out of this as they age, then I might give it a few more years. It's just that space is at a premium.

When I look at these pics, I can hear this palm begging "Hey man, this Central California weather's not my gig, please, please get me outa here and send me to the Florida keys where I belong, I'm not digging this scene!"

Here is Inge's archontophoenix for comparison, three palms right down hill from it. That thing has more than doubled in size since I planted it.

Toss it. It will look like crap every winter. Mine did and I am in SoCal.

Toss it. It will look like crap every winter. Mine did and I am in SoCal.

Ha Ha, yeah, I was waiting for you to tell me "I told you so", nice of you to hold back. We had a Southern California Winter this year, 50F low 80F highs, and it still looks like crap, so yes, I'm sold, it's going into a pot and into the greenhouse until a suitable care taker can be found. I could give it a go inside as a house plant too. Anyway, another rite of passage completed, been there, done that.

I know Matty's neighbor has a nice one, but I doubt that translates into me getting one to grow here.

On another note, I was surprised to see cocothrinax barbadensis do well this Winter, it's right next to the dictyosperma, I gave that one a 50-50 chance at best but it looks like a much better bet.

Axel, the D. album 'rubrum' I planted late last fall in my front yard looks great and kept growing unil December and it only gets 2 hours of daily winter sun at most. It was out of a one gallon pot and I did not protect it during the freeze. The only thing out of the ordinary that I do for it is water it with heated water. They don't appreciate cold water or soil and my tap water this time of year is 55F.

Axel, the D. album 'rubrum' I planted late last fall in my front yard looks great and kept growing unil December and it only gets 2 hours of daily winter sun at most. It was out of a one gallon pot and I did not protect it during the freeze. The only thing out of the ordinary that I do for it is water it with heated water. They don't appreciate cold water or soil and my tap water this time of year is 55F.

I've seen some "growing" in Southern California and they're less than impressive, more sorta like "hey, look, it's alive, can you believe it?", a bit like the Newport Coconut. We've had the most spectacular Winter weather I've ever seen up here in my lifetime, and if 80F Winter days and 50F Winter nights can't keep it happy, I don't know what will, but heated tap water just isn't in the cards. I figure if someone's gonna pull it off it would definitely be you. Jim, you're really dedicated to those borderline palms. I just don't have that kind of bandwidth. I put stuff in the ground, and if it can't fend for itself with what's out there in my garden, out it goes.

Mine came looking like it does now after spending the Winter in Carlsbad. It put on pristine looking fronds that grew fast in my garden, but now, it's back to what it looked like when I got it.

The one at the SDzoo looks good.

Probably not enough humidity where you are Axel?

interesting point about angle of the sun Axel. Mine look happy here and are growing and saw 33 this winter average high low 70s lows of low 50s which was colder than you this winter.

Mine looks great too,dark green with nice droopy leafs. On its second winter in the ground now and so far so good, while another I had planted some years back,died on its first winter in a more exposed spot. But this one isn't tucked anywhere,it's just in a better microclimate thanks to the trees around the area. And we did get frosts this year as the bananas and some cold sensitive weeds,are burned. Maybe the problem is soil/rot related?

Probably not enough humidity where you are Axel?

Usually, this place is pretty humid, but thanks to the drought, yes, humidity levels are rock bottom. I think it's current state is obviously related to that. It is in a part of the garden that gets more air circulation, so rare to see any frost at all, but when the dry winds are blowing, it's obviously drier there. It gets several hours of Winter sun, which may be part of the issue.

Mine looks great too,dark green with nice droopy leafs. On its second winter in the ground now and so far so good, while another I had planted some years back,died on its first winter in a more exposed spot. But this one isn't tucked anywhere,it's just in a better microclimate thanks to the trees around the area. And we did get frosts this year as the bananas and some cold sensitive weeds,are burned. Maybe the problem is soil/rot related?

Nice! I think it's the luck of the draw, with something this marginal, if you have the right spot in the garden where it's more humid and you have the right specimen, things might work out. Given that Len's never looked good even in Vista, one of the best climates in the entire State of California when it comes to tropicals, I am not gonna sweat it if it's a no go here.

This thing has always been reddish, I wonder what's up with that.

Palmpedia says this: Dictyosperma are much less tolerant of the long, cool spells (nights under 50 F) that characterize winters in Mediterranean climates like Southern California, Western Australia or southwestern South Africa. In such places, they "spot out" (turn yellow with brown spots) and stop growing until warm weather comes again in spring. Likewise, they also perish quickly in true desert areas or as newly-planted specimens in "reverse dry desert winds" in warm temperate climates, such as the Santa Anas in California, or the Scirocco in southern Europe.

Fancy that! Brown Spots! Exactly what mine did.

Often with palms, when it's a common, easy palm to get, and you don't see it planted anywhere, then that's usually a pretty good indicator it's a no go.

Bottom line, if I can't get it to look like this, I am not interested. Note: pic below is Dictyosperma album var. conjugatum as you can see the remaining edges on newly opening fronds.

Axel, if you want all your palms to look that great in mid-winter, you're going to have to relocate. Right, you knew that.

Palmpedia says this: Dictyosperma are much less tolerant of the long, cool spells (nights under 50 F) that characterize winters in Mediterranean climates like Southern California, Western Australia or southwestern South Africa. In such places, they "spot out" (turn yellow with brown spots) and stop growing until warm weather comes again in spring. Likewise, they also perish quickly in true desert areas or as newly-planted specimens in "reverse dry desert winds" in warm temperate climates, such as the Santa Anas in California, or the Scirocco in southern Europe.

Often with palms, when it's a common, easy palm to get, and you don't see it planted anywhere, then that's usually a pretty good indicator it's a no go.

Bottom line, if I can't get it to look like this, I am not interested. Note: pic below is Dictyosperma album var. conjugatum as you can see the remaining edges on newly opening fronds.

Axel, Out of my nearly 300 palms, not one of them looks like that! I'm keeping them anyway...so there!

Axel, I tried a few too. I saw some in a few gardens look great so I thought I could pull it off. I ripped my last one out last spring. It was just starting to trunk too. I think if you ask around there are far more failures then success stories with this palm in SoCal.

Those "remaining edges" are called "reins". Cyphophoenix nucele should have them. You can grow that maybe.

Axel, if you want all your palms to look that great in mid-winter, you're going to have to relocate. Right, you knew that.

Palmpedia says this: Dictyosperma are much less tolerant of the long, cool spells (nights under 50 F) that characterize winters in Mediterranean climates like Southern California, Western Australia or southwestern South Africa. In such places, they "spot out" (turn yellow with brown spots) and stop growing until warm weather comes again in spring. Likewise, they also perish quickly in true desert areas or as newly-planted specimens in "reverse dry desert winds" in warm temperate climates, such as the Santa Anas in California, or the Scirocco in southern Europe.

Often with palms, when it's a common, easy palm to get, and you don't see it planted anywhere, then that's usually a pretty good indicator it's a no go.

Bottom line, if I can't get it to look like this, I am not interested. Note: pic below is Dictyosperma album var. conjugatum as you can see the remaining edges on newly opening fronds.

Axel, Out of my nearly 300 palms, not one of them looks like that! I'm keeping them anyway...so there!

Sorry, you two, i am gonna have to disagree with that. The right choice of palms will look stunning year round even outside of the tropics. Here's the picture to prove it, this looks just as good, if not better than that Hawaiian grown album and it's the middle of Winter. On normal years it's humid here 90% of the time, this is the first time I've had to deal with such a dry Winter, but at least all my brahea look stunning as a result. Jim, you have several palms that look stunning and perfect. Definitely not all 300 of them because you like to grow so many marginal palms, but a lot of them look great.

Axel, I tried a few too. I saw some in a few gardens look great so I thought I could pull it off. I ripped my last one out last spring. It was just starting to trunk too. I think if you ask around there are far more failures then success stories with this palm in SoCal.

Those "remaining edges" are called "reins". Cyphophoenix nucele should have them. You can grow that maybe.

So what's the secret? You have a great climate, I would think if it's gonna succeed anywhere, it would be your garden. BTW, cyphophoenix nucele grows much better for me.

Thanks Axel,I think its just that,luck of the draw, and hope it lasts so that it can grow to maturity It will be under tall,evergreen canopy eventually but it needs some more years to form and close,sun will still hit it from the west side though. I don't care even if it burns from cold somewhat even most of the years(so far so good though!),as long as it grows well and lush with no stunting or permanent damage I just like this species and will be adding a few more in the same area this spring,the leafs look somewhat like a Kentia with their droopiness but don't burn when the high heat of the summer comes. Plus the reins and crownshaft are nice in adults.

Pyrgos is humid in itself yearound and quite wet in winter. So no need for humid microclimates for most things other than stilt root palms and ferns! My Wettinia's took a beating even in a humid but slightly wind exposed microclimate unfortunately while they did fine in summer...But even Stanhopea's took a beating there for the first time in the years I have had them. No certain idea why but I think cold,dryish winds prevailed,which are unusual,and these are probably to blame for surface damaging/cold spotting the leafs of these plants. Eventually the canopy will close and filter them.

Wish you good luck and success in reinvigorating your Dictyosperma,its a beautiful species

Thanks Axel,I think its just that,luck of the draw, and hope it lasts so that it can grow to maturity It will be under tall,evergreen canopy eventually but it needs some more years to form and close,sun will still hit it from the west side though. I don't care even if it burns from cold somewhat even most of the years(so far so good though!),as long as it grows well and lush with no stunting or permanent damage I just like this species and will be adding a few more in the same area this spring,the leafs look somewhat like a Kentia with their droopiness but don't burn when the high heat of the summer comes. Plus the reins and crownshaft are nice in adults.

Pyrgos is humid in itself yearound and quite wet in winter. So no need for humid microclimates for most things other than stilt root palms and ferns! My Wettinia's took a beating even in a humid but slightly wind exposed microclimate unfortunately while they did fine in summer...But even Stanhopea's took a beating there for the first time in the years I have had them. No certain idea why but I think cold,dryish winds prevailed,which are unusual,and these are probably to blame for surface damaging/cold spotting the leafs of these plants. Eventually the canopy will close and filter them.

Wish you good luck and success in reinvigorating your Dictyosperma,its a beautiful species

If I were you I would wait to see how your dictyosperma does for a few years before you plant more of these. It's really a marginal palm for Mediterranean climates not worth that much of an investment. One, yes, but multiple is asking for trouble. IMHO the higher elevation Wettinia are a better bet if you can keep them under canopy.

Mine is looking bad enough and given that I am getting confirmation what is already spelled out in the literature, I am going to dig it up and put it in the greenhouse, and once it looks nice, it's going into the house as a house plant.

I've really come to like these palms, so elegant with the large crowns and straight as an arrow trunk. They particularly look good with a bit of space around them so you can see the overall shape. The one above looks great for mid winter in Ca., (I'm assuming), and hopefully it will continue to do so.

There is a grove of them planted near a local shopping center here in Hilo and you just sigh when you pass them. I purchased two in 4" pots four years ago and they were labeled 'Bottle Palm', I think they were $2 each and it was one of those 'what the heck' moments. Well, it quickly became apparent they weren't Hyophorbe but rather D. albums, and I've been so happy about that ever since. They have since grown into real beauties.

Keep on keeping on guys.

Tim

The one at the SDzoo looks good.

Yeah, it does. The really impressive thing is that it's not the "rubrum" variation, just the standard variety hurricane palm. I've had zero luck with those; they're much more cold sensitive I think.

Axel,

Multiple specimen mean that there are more chances of 2 eventually reaching maturity,if that is possible to happen. I prefer to try more of a species early on so that I get results sooner than latter,whether that is success or failure. Last winter was typical for my area,and the Dictyosperma did well, so surviving that means that they should be capable to live quite a few years and can probably survive my record freeze once every 20years if they have started trunking by then(which they should have, well before). They are cheap,not an investment for me,and I have a couple prime spots selected for them If they don't do well,I have a list of other marginals to try in those spots till one of them succeeds!

I do have Wettinia maynensis planted in a few wet and shady spots,they did well in summer but most are not looking too hot right now...Hopefully they survive but if not,I will definitely retry a few times with a few different species.

I know of a D. album growing here in Laguna Hills that looks amazing!

Look, it's only been in the ground a short period. It's not truly established yet. Imho, you can't judge its hardiness yet. Besides it could bounce back in spring and be a real stunner most of the year for you.

Palm is too young, too little time in the ground to make a judgment yet. Patience young grasshopper.

Adam took the words right out of my mouth. I doubt it'll ever look great for you, but I don't even think about judging my palms until they've been planted for a couple of years.

My Rubrum, it does get a little beaten up in Winter, It should have planted more of a protected area.

Adam took the words right out of my mouth. I doubt it'll ever look great for you, but I don't even think about judging my palms until they've been planted for a couple of years.

So you have the same doubt I have and you're telling me to keep it? What am I missing here?

I wait for lots of things for several years to hit their stride, but only if they're bets worth making. In this case I have many doubts.

Axel, I had written exactly what you said above about "palm choice" if you insist on perfection, but deleted it because I didn't think you needed any pointers from me on how to grow palms. But if you want to try marginal palms, accept some winter flaws and give them a chance to get some size before you yank them out of the ground. You have enough stellar "winter-proof" palms around that no one but you would notice a small D. album with a little sunburn. Give the little palm a chance. Or give it to someone else who will.

I just wait it out to see what actually happens, no matter what I may think. You might be pleasantly surprised. But you'll never know if you yank it. It probably won't make it though.

Axel, I had written exactly what you said above about "palm choice" if you insist on perfection, but deleted it because I didn't think you needed any pointers from me on how to grow palms. But if you want to try marginal palms, accept some winter flaws and give them a chance to get some size before you yank them out of the ground. You have enough stellar "winter-proof" palms around that no one but you would notice a small D. album with a little sunburn. Give the little palm a chance. Or give it to someone else who will.

Kim, I'd love any pointers from you on how to grow palms. All advice is welcome. You guys have convinced me, I'll leave it be, maybe by some miracle it will turn around. It's not sunburn, though, it looks like the textbook brown spots as a result of what I think are soil temperatures that are just too low. I have the same problem Jim has with tab water at 55F in the Winter.

Hurray! Good on ya Axel.

My good friend Kenny Rogers told me one day

You've got to know when to hold 'em

Know when to fold 'em

Know when to walk away

Know when to run

If this is some untried palm, wait it out. But this palm has been tried in SoCal gardens for generations. If you got a crappy hand. Fold.

Axel, I am just giving you a hard time. Good luck if you decide to keep it.

My good friend Kenny Rogers told me one day

You've got to know when to hold 'em

Know when to fold 'em

Know when to walk away

Know when to run

If this is some untried palm, wait it out. But this palm has been tried in SoCal gardens for generations. If you got a crappy hand. Fold.

Axel, I am just giving you a hard time. Good luck if you decide to keep it.

Len, wise words, that was my feeling exactly. As much as I want to please Adam and Kim, I did just buy a real nice large overgrown orianopsis from JD Andersen, he didn't even know he still had one, it was the last one, and that's like getting a straight flush here in Central Calif, and it wants a spot to grow.

Maybe I should send the dictyosperma to Adam, and in a few years he can rub it in when (if) he gets it to grow into a glorious specimen

Send it on down Axel! I'll have a hole dug and waiting.

Send it on down Axel! I'll have a hole dug and waiting.

I'm actually serious, let's see how it fares through some normal Central California wet Winter cold for the next two weeks, that will make the decision. I go down there pretty regularly and we could figure a way to get it to you.

Send it on down Axel! I'll have a hole dug and waiting.

I'm actually serious, let's see how it fares through some normal Central California wet Winter cold for the next two weeks, that will make the decision. I go down there pretty regularly and we could figure a way to get it to you.

Oh man, now I have skin in this game. Let's see if that changes my thinking I wrote above! In all seriousness, I'd give it more time than a year. But that is just me.

Ok, i'll wait.

How about now?

What about now?

What about now?

Are we there yet?

Snark attack!

I was hoping for this:

Instead I got this:

I shall accept the limitations of my climate...

I shall accept the limitations of my climate...

I shall accept the limitations of my climate...

...

Spring time is when we have to let go of past dreams that will never be realized... and we get to chase new dreams. With all fronds dead and an emerging leaf that looks like hell even with the fabulously warm Winter we ha, I get the message loud and clear. Hurricane palm says: "me not liking your freakin' icebox of a climate". This thing is outa here, gonna put in a betafaka in its place. Now I am dreaming of a nice blue decipiens in its place.

Adam, this hurricane palm that looks like it went through a hurricane is all yours if you want it.

If it wasn't acclimated and had not grown new leafs in your climate,it might be somewhat promising as it survived and can grow tougher leafs this growing season. If it was an acclimated palm that grew more than a couple leafs since ground planting,then it doesn't look good at all and would need a better microclimate in your garden to survive. I would leave it grow at least the leaf it has though before attempting to move it as it's pretty rough and vulnerable now.

Hope it survives and does well for you or Adam!