Hardy king palms - reality or myth

[Tyrone]

[Tropicgardener]

I was in Townsville for the winter of 2007 and yes it was cold there, a number of days there I actually left my jumper on all day !! Some of the Pritchardias were a little worse for wear and I had fears for the large Sealing Wax palms in Queens Park but they came through ok.

[Sandy Loam]

Update -- For those who like to follow freeze damage data on bangalows/King Palms, I have a new report. I am finally able to see the final outcome of our 3 major freeze events, one after the other. It has been an unusually cold January, even though the actual low temperatures were nothing fatal. My palms simply did not receive the daily warm-up into the low 20s Celcius/low 70s Fahrenheit that they would expect most January afternoons, even after a freeze. They spent a lot of days where the mercury did not reach higher than the 50s Fahrenheit.

Of my 6 archontophoenix cunninghamiana, I now have 2 with damage and 4 with no damage. The damage is limited to burning on the tips of the leaves and my weakest one also has some damage on the new spear growth. It is nothing fatal, but it does mean that those two will experience some level of damage at 26.8 Fahrenheit (the lowest temperature we had this year), when followed by several other overnight freeze events and an overall lack of significant afternoon warm-ups and sunshine.

This is odd because these palms saw at least 26 degrees Fahrenheit last year, if not lower, and suffered no damage at all. I think it was the constant hammering of cold this year that made all the difference. Last year, we had a couple of freezes and the weather warmed right back up again afterwards.

I don't anticipate any more major freezes this year, but you never know. We certainly could have another freeze event in February, but once we get to March, we will be in the clear for sure. If anything major happens which affects these archontophoenix cunningahmiana, I will report the damage for those who follow this type of data.

By the way, the USDA says that my zip code is in zone 8a. For some reason, the rest of town is classified in zone 9a. According to USDA, zone 9a is about a quarter km away from here.

[zootropical]

Thk you Sandy Loam. Nice report.

I would like to know if any seeds of the "mountain" form is available?

Sincerely.

[KennyRE317]

I haven't gone through this thread but I have a couple Archontophoenix species that range in size ...

alex - triple planted, the largest is probably 9' tall to the top of the front. gets minimal direct sun year round. few years in the ground

illawara - just starting to show a little bit of trunk, and is about 6' tall, trunk/crown region looks stretched but the fronds are normal and was in a 1gal when I planted it in late fall. this is planted against a corner and sees heavy wind and plenty of fall sun and will see full summer sun

beatrice - large seedling, about a foot tall, sees a little bit of direct sun right now will be in full sun from sun up to sun down spring/summer, i'll need to give it some shade. planted in late fall

myolensis - large seedling, about a foot tall, sees a little bit of direct sun right now and will see a couple hours of sun in the morning. planted in late fall

those are what I have planted out and still need to get me a regular cunningama (big box store) and maxima (big box store).

so far all my plants are still very green tipped with little to no signs of winter burn and those that do have a little brown on their tips might be more sun burn than anything, my data might not be the best to use this season since I think it only dropped under 40°F twice and it was probably 39°F, maybe 37° at the lowest (I'm up until around 3am everynight so I always take a look at the temps before bed.

on a side note my chambeyronia's are growing like crazy and nothing stopped growing through this winter so far

Edited February 2, 2014 by KennyRE317

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

Update -- For those who like to follow freeze damage data on bangalows/King Palms, I have a new report. I am finally able to see the final outcome of our 3 major freeze events, one after the other. It has been an unusually cold January, even though the actual low temperatures were nothing fatal. My palms simply did not receive the daily warm-up into the low 20s Celcius/low 70s Fahrenheit that they would expect most January afternoons, even after a freeze. They spent a lot of days where the mercury did not reach higher than the 50s Fahrenheit.

Of my 6 archontophoenix cunninghamiana, I now have 2 with damage and 4 with no damage. The damage is limited to burning on the tips of the leaves and my weakest one also has some damage on the new spear growth. It is nothing fatal, but it does mean that those two will experience some level of damage at 26.8 Fahrenheit (the lowest temperature we had this year), when followed by several other overnight freeze events and an overall lack of significant afternoon warm-ups and sunshine.

This is odd because these palms saw at least 26 degrees Fahrenheit last year, if not lower, and suffered no damage at all. I think it was the constant hammering of cold this year that made all the difference. Last year, we had a couple of freezes and the weather warmed right back up again afterwards.

I don't anticipate any more major freezes this year, but you never know. We certainly could have another freeze event in February, but once we get to March, we will be in the clear for sure. If anything major happens which affects these archontophoenix cunningahmiana, I will report the damage for those who follow this type of data.

By the way, the USDA says that my zip code is in zone 8a. For some reason, the rest of town is classified in zone 9a. According to USDA, zone 9a is about a quarter km away from here.

I don't think the lack of daytime warm up into the 70's has any impact on the state of your king palms as far as freeze damage is concerned, at least in the short term. My king palms take 700-1200 hours of chill (hours between 32F and 45F) every Winter and show no sign of decline or stress from those kinds of conditions. I can get up to 6 weeks in a row in the Winter without seeing temps climb above 65F on colder years. King palms don't care what you throw at them during the Winter as long as it's above freezing and there's plenty of water around. I've never seen damage from below freezing temps on regular Big Box king palms here since they seem good down almost a full USDA zone below mine, only on illawara and maxima. Illawara starts to show burned tips at around 31F. That's the main reason I am not particularly fond of illawara, it gets wind damage during the Summer and it gets frost damage in the Winter even with the mildest frosts. Even Maxima is hardier to cold and starts to show brown tips around 29F out in the open but looks pristine under canopy at about the same temps.

[RedRabbit]

I was just thinking, Cunninghamiana x Maxima could make for an interesting hybrid with respect to cold tolerance. Has anyone done this cross before?

[NorCalKing]

We got one night here bottom out at 24.8f last winter and my cunninghamiana, took it like a champ. A few burnt tips, but it's already this early in the season, 90% recovered and pushing spears at an alarming rate. Also, I didn't have any overhead canopy to protect it, or any protection.

[Ben in Norcal]

21 minutes ago, NorCalKing said:

We got one night here bottom out at 24.8f last winter and my cunninghamiana, took it like a champ. A few burnt tips, but it's already this early in the season, 90% recovered and pushing spears at an alarming rate. Also, I didn't have any overhead canopy to protect it, or any protection.

That's amazing. I didn't get below 30 but I think these are bulletproof 9b palms.

[dalmatiansoap]

Depends on where your 9b is, lol?

[Ben in Norcal]

7 hours ago, dalmatiansoap said:

Depends on where your 9b is, lol?

Does it?  What is the lol for?

[dalmatiansoap]

Zone classification takes its stands mostly on min. temperature and in my opinion according experience of lot of growers in other parts of Europe it takes much more factors than just min. temp. like average winters lows and highs, hours of sun, daily temperature fluctuations...

[Ben in Norcal]

16 minutes ago, dalmatiansoap said:

Zone classification takes its stands mostly on min. temperature and in my opinion according experience of lot of growers in other parts of Europe it takes much more factors than just min. temp. like average winters lows and highs, hours of sun, daily temperature fluctuations...

And that's my point.  I think this is a bulletproof palm for 9b, despite those differences.  If they do well in subtropical rainforest (natural habitat), and well in my exceedingly hot, dry summer and exceedingly cool, wet winter, environment - they are surely exceptionally adaptable.

[NorCalKing]

12 hours ago, Ben in Norcal said:

That's amazing. I didn't get below 30 but I think these are bulletproof 9b palms.

Yeah, we here in the Tri-Valley get some crazy dips. But then in summer we are smoking hot (as you know  ). But yeah to your point, I think these are more then solid 9b (very tropical looking) palm that should be planted way more in Nor Cal. IMHO.

Edited April 29, 2016 by NorCalKing

[Keys6505]

On 2/2/2014 at 1:00 PM, Sandy Loam said:

Update -- For those who like to follow freeze damage data on bangalows/King Palms, I have a new report. I am finally able to see the final outcome of our 3 major freeze events, one after the other. It has been an unusually cold January, even though the actual low temperatures were nothing fatal. My palms simply did not receive the daily warm-up into the low 20s Celcius/low 70s Fahrenheit that they would expect most January afternoons, even after a freeze. They spent a lot of days where the mercury did not reach higher than the 50s Fahrenheit.

 

Of my 6 archontophoenix cunninghamiana, I now have 2 with damage and 4 with no damage. The damage is limited to burning on the tips of the leaves and my weakest one also has some damage on the new spear growth. It is nothing fatal, but it does mean that those two will experience some level of damage at 26.8 Fahrenheit (the lowest temperature we had this year), when followed by several other overnight freeze events and an overall lack of significant afternoon warm-ups and sunshine.

 

This is odd because these palms saw at least 26 degrees Fahrenheit last year, if not lower, and suffered no damage at all. I think it was the constant hammering of cold this year that made all the difference. Last year, we had a couple of freezes and the weather warmed right back up again afterwards.

 

I don't anticipate any more major freezes this year, but you never know. We certainly could have another freeze event in February, but once we get to March, we will be in the clear for sure. If anything major happens which affects these archontophoenix cunningahmiana, I will report the damage for those who follow this type of data.

 

By the way, the USDA says that my zip code is in zone 8a. For some reason, the rest of town is classified in zone 9a. According to USDA, zone 9a is about a quarter km away from here.

I know this is an olllllld post, but curious as to how long these trees survived for you in Gainesville and what (if anything) finally did them in?

[cobra2326]

On 3/8/2021 at 8:18 PM, Keys6505 said:

I know this is an olllllld post, but curious as to how long these trees survived for you in Gainesville and what (if anything) finally did them in?

Looks like they died after multiple freezes, one at 24: 

 

[Keys6505]

25 minutes ago, cobra2326 said:

Looks like they died after multiple freezes, one at 24: 

 

Good digging, thank you.

[HASNZ38S]

Hamilton NZ - loads of mature Bangalow palms here and we regularly see -4C nights and these palms will have survived much lower in their lifetimes. 
 

King palms are unheard of except for this one near the city lake. Still going strong, sees temperatures easily down to -3.8C this winter and not even phased.

[cbmnz]

On 8/29/2021 at 9:51 AM, HASNZ38S said:

Hamilton NZ - loads of mature Bangalow palms here and we regularly see -4C nights and these palms will have survived much lower in their lifetimes. 
 

King palms are unheard of except for this one near the city lake. Still going strong, sees temperatures easily down to -3.8C this winter and not even phased.

A few weeks after that bad bout of frosts in early July, when I was over that way I drove around Hamilton city looking for damage to sensitive plants and amazingly was very hard to find any. The one place I did see something was at this property
https://www.google.co.nz/maps/@-37.7399224,175.2740244,3a,42.7y,272.51h,92.92t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sWD7-OvL08swt5e_aiQ7stQ!2e0!5s20120901T000000!7i16384!8i8192

the largest was unscathed but the two smaller ones had about 50% leaf burnt. That must be a colder spot in town as I noticed a white/gaint bird of paradise a bit burnt in same area, while a dozen others around the city had no damage at all.

If you use the time slider in street view,  those palms were defoliated several times while small, it's changed my perspective on what they can come back from. The largest sure has exploded since 2015.

I'm trying to grow an Alexandre from juvenile out in Cambridge , it took serious damage despite being wrapped in frost cloth. Several Cunninghama  have done much better. After seeing that streetivew  however know to be patient with a small one as if it can scrape though it eventually will stop being damaged each winter and take off and become a great asset.

 

Edited September 2, 2021 by cbmnz

[HASNZ38S]

On 9/2/2021 at 3:24 PM, cbmnz said:

A few weeks after that bad bout of frosts in early July, when I was over that way I drove around Hamilton city looking for damage to sensitive plants and amazingly was very hard to find any. The one place I did see something was at this property
https://www.google.co.nz/maps/@-37.7399224,175.2740244,3a,42.7y,272.51h,92.92t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sWD7-OvL08swt5e_aiQ7stQ!2e0!5s20120901T000000!7i16384!8i8192

the largest was unscathed but the two smaller ones had about 50% leaf burnt. That must be a colder spot in town as I noticed a white/gaint bird of paradise a bit burnt in same area, while a dozen others around the city had no damage at all.

If you use the time slider in street view,  those palms were defoliated several times while small, it's changed my perspective on what they can come back from. The largest sure has exploded since 2015.

I'm trying to grow an Alexandre from juvenile out in Cambridge , it took serious damage despite being wrapped in frost cloth. Several Cunninghama  have done much better. After seeing that streetivew  however know to be patient with a small one as if it can scrape though it eventually will stop being damaged each winter and take off and become a great asset.

 

Yeah that July frost was extra bad, consecutive days of frost and -3.8C with a late fog rolling in. Didn’t get about freezing until mid-day…

Very little damage to my Cunninghama. But my more tender tropical plants are only just recovering now, some we defoliated (natives included). But none of my palm species were effected (including Dypsis baronii).

[HASNZ38S]

On 9/2/2021 at 3:24 PM, cbmnz said:

A few weeks after that bad bout of frosts in early July, when I was over that way I drove around Hamilton city looking for damage to sensitive plants and amazingly was very hard to find any. The one place I did see something was at this property
https://www.google.co.nz/maps/@-37.7399224,175.2740244,3a,42.7y,272.51h,92.92t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sWD7-OvL08swt5e_aiQ7stQ!2e0!5s20120901T000000!7i16384!8i8192

the largest was unscathed but the two smaller ones had about 50% leaf burnt. That must be a colder spot in town as I noticed a white/gaint bird of paradise a bit burnt in same area, while a dozen others around the city had no damage at all.

If you use the time slider in street view,  those palms were defoliated several times while small, it's changed my perspective on what they can come back from. The largest sure has exploded since 2015.

I'm trying to grow an Alexandre from juvenile out in Cambridge , it took serious damage despite being wrapped in frost cloth. Several Cunninghama  have done much better. After seeing that streetivew  however know to be patient with a small one as if it can scrape though it eventually will stop being damaged each winter and take off and become a great asset.

 

That palm in street view image I shared has barely grown in ~5 years. Whilst it seems ok I suspect it is not happy. I have quite a few palms in my collection here in Hamilton but will not bother with an alexandre given what I have seen.

[cbmnz]

Someone has had some decent success at this place for sale. It is down on low ground too which is a good test. I like the Queen growing with bent trunck makes it look coconut like.

https://www.lugtons.co.nz/listings/17-kingsway-crescent-forest-lake/

https://www.google.com/maps/place/17+Kingsway+Crescent,+Forest+Lake,+Hamilton+3200/@-37.7724819,175.252102,3a,75y,263.57h,83.38t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sivwSmZzZq76oDElYc6bAjA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!4m5!3m4!1s0x6d6d226a0f3395ef:0xa2b70c7f092126c6!8m2!3d-37.7725103!4d175.2518821

[HASNZ38S]

On 10/13/2021 at 12:21 PM, cbmnz said:

Someone has had some decent success at this place for sale. It is down on low ground too which is a good test. I like the Queen growing with bent trunck makes it look coconut like.

https://www.lugtons.co.nz/listings/17-kingsway-crescent-forest-lake/

https://www.google.com/maps/place/17+Kingsway+Crescent,+Forest+Lake,+Hamilton+3200/@-37.7724819,175.252102,3a,75y,263.57h,83.38t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sivwSmZzZq76oDElYc6bAjA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!4m5!3m4!1s0x6d6d226a0f3395ef:0xa2b70c7f092126c6!8m2!3d-37.7725103!4d175.2518821

That looks like a Bangalow there beside the queen. Dime a dozen in Hamilton and pretty much bulletproof