The most cold-sensitive palm on Earth

[Eric Hawaii]

Aloha everybody,

I've often claimed casually in conversation that Cocos nucifera (coconut palm) has got to be the most cold-sensitive palm in the world, but realistically, there are probably many many other species that are just as much if not more so.  I thought I'd put it to you all to weigh in on this one.

[Dypsisdean]

Well I don't know for certain, but Cyrtostachys has to be in the running. A cold stare can kill that one. For sure more sensitive than a Coco.

[Neofolis]

I'm sure we had a similar thread on the old board and the general consensus was not C.renda or C.nucifera.  I can't recall what it was though, but for some reason I'm thinking it was a Carpoxylon or Ceroxylon, I'm probably way off.  I suppose I ought to search for the other thread.

[paulgila]

i think the most cold-sensitive palms are all the ones that happen to be in MY garden!

[The Germinator]

Lipsticks

Coconuts

Manillas

I can not keep any of these alive in SOCAL, My Manilla Palm is on life support in my cube at work, it might actually survive.

[philinsydney]

Hydriastele costata

[SubTropicRay]

So far, in my experience, Oncosperma is way up there.

[Trópico]

Phoenicophorium borsigianum. A temperature in the 40s can wipe out dozens of them. I don't think Cocos is an ultratropical, otherwise they wouldn't be growing around here.

[Bilbo]

Corey I think you have been speed keying and mixed up your C`s - Ceroxylon is high altitude and was once tried in London a few years back and lasted barely a year but didnt actually frizzle that quickly.

I certainly dont know the answer ; at a guess I would say some of those palms from New Caledonia???

Regardez

Juan

[JakeK]

Isn't Manicaria saccifera extremely cold sensitive? I might be mistaken but I thought it was on par with Cyrtostachys renda.

[tikitiki]

(Bilbo @ Feb. 07 2007,07:32)

QUOTE

at a guess I would say some of those palms from New Caledonia???

Regardez

Juan

My palms from  New Caledonia seem to do best in winter. My hot summers drive them crazy.

[Bilbo]

Tom if by "crazy" you mean bad then grow them in winter and send them here for their summer holiday!

Regardez

Juan

[DoomsDave]

Cyrtostachys and Pigafetta.

dave

[Neofolis]

(Bilbo @ Feb. 07 2007,12:32)

QUOTE

Corey I think you have been speed keying and mixed up your C`s - Ceroxylon is high altitude and was once tried in London a few years back and lasted barely a year but didnt actually frizzle that quickly.

I certainly dont know the answer ; at a guess I would say some of those palms from New Caledonia???

Regardez

Juan

As I said, I can't remember what the other thread said.  I've done a search, but couldn't find anything.

What about some of the species from Indonesia, some of them would never see temperatures below 20°C/68°F in habitat.

[Scott]

Does anybody know what the lowest a Ceroxylon Ventricosum will take?

I ask because that's one I'd love to try, but not it it doesn't have a chance.

[Alan_Tampa]

Crystostachys as Dave said, and Manicaria as JakeK said I am betting are two of the most cold sensitive palms.

Alan

[Zac in NC]

I agree with what everyone has mentioned so far. Cyrtostachys and Manicaria are definitely on the list. I would think any palms native to the regions nearest the Equator would be the least cold hardy.

Zac

[kylecawazafla]

I agree with Manicaria saccifera as being one of the worlds most cold sensative plants. Has anyone managed these in cultivation?

[Palmarum]

One comes to mine that beats all of them, for South Florida that is, Areca warburgiana. Many attempts at growing this palm here have ended in failure. It has gotten lethal damage from the upper 40's F, and even milder cold caused large amounts of damage. It only looked decent during a few months of the summer, only if it had recovered from the previous winter. It makes Cyrtostachys renda look temperate in comparison. Not recommended unless for ultra-tropical conditions... If I have a proper setup for it, I would try it again if seed became available.

Ryan

[tim_brissy_13]

Scott, my C. ventricosum seedling take 2C (36F) every winter and a long, cool winter.  They grow at 3000m (10000 feet) in habitat.

[Geoff]

There are two mature plants in Ventura, California that both survived temps in the low 20s back in the 1990s sometime... Didn't see them soon after, but look fine today.  I had one in Thousand Oaks (seedling about 4' tall overall) that took 27F briefly one night without any visible damage.

[Eric in Orlando]

What about species of Eugeissona? I don't know if is the tenderest but I think they are more tender than Cyrtostachys.

[Bilbo]

Corey; Indonesia I can certainly believe might be a good candidate.

Regardez

Juan

[Neofolis]

I was also thinking Eugeissonia.  I think Eugeissonia minor only exists at low altitude and being an understorey palm in Borneo and the like, it never gets exposed to any extremes, other than maybe extreme humidity.  Either way, it's climate varies very little.

[Jeff Searle]

In my experiences, I feel Phoenicophorium borsigianum is more cold sensitived than Cyrtostachys renda. Also I noticed the red crownshaft form of Areca catechu ( A. mariae ?) is extreamly cold sensitived. But there are certainly others. Coconuts are far from the top of the list.

Jeff

[Carlo Morici]

Pelagodoxa is a candidate. Last year I have killed one Pelagodoxa seedling after a dozen nights at +10 to +12 C (50-53 F)  and it is possibly the only palm I killed with cold, in a place where cacao and breadfruit grow outdoors, even if "marginals". In the same place, young Carpoxylon and Clinostigma samoense are almost unscathed.

Friends of mine killed Phoenicophorium, Verschaffeltia, Cyrtostachys with a few nights at about +8 C (46,5 F).

With these relatively high cold-temperatures, it was often not the cold itself to cause the damage. Fungi associated to cold weather often are responsible for burning and killing the plants.

Carlo, Tenerife

[bgl]

Carlo,

I'm curious, have you tried Pigafetta there? And if so, what are the results?

Fairchild in Miami has a conservatory for some very cold sensitive palms. It would seem to me that a good way of determining what group of palms are most cold sensitive would be to simply find out what palms Fairchild has in their conservatory? Being that S.FL for the most part has a climate that's warm enough for just about anything - except on those few occasions when a cold front hits. I recall Verschaffeltia, but can't remember any of the others.

Bo-Göran

[Carlo Morici]

No Bo,

I have never pigafetted in my life... yet.

I think Carlos Simón is growing both outdoors on the island of El Hierro. I will ask him. He is not visiting much the forum in these days. Anyway he is on a very warm coast, with Pelagodoxa and Verschaffeltia thriving. The coast is the coast - I killed my Pelagodoxa in the mountains, while the ones at the Palmetum are fine.

[Trópico]

I know a good way of determining how cold sensitive a palm is:

1) How unbelievably beautiful it is

2) How badly I wish I can grow it!

[Daryl]

Quite a few people have Phoenicophorium growing inground in Brisbane and surrounding areas, but nobody has had any success here with C.renda. Pelagadoxa seems to survive here as well. I think Pigafetta is more cold hardy than any of these, same as Verschaffeltia.

There are quite a few species that have been tried here and have proven to be more sensitive than the above species...trouble is, most were small..and small plants of a lot of species are very tender in our winter unless given the right care.

Daryl

[DoomsDave]

(The Germinator @ Feb. 07 2007,05:21)

QUOTE

Lipsticks

Coconuts

Manillas

I can not keep any of these alive in SOCAL, My Manilla Palm is on life support in my cube at work, it might actually survive.

Ed!

LOVE the avatar!

Hmm.  Where'd you get it?  Are you now the Pope of Whittier/La Habra?

Come visit again, soon, Holiness . . ..

dave

[Carlo Morici]

We are so oceanic that we don't have anything definable as a cold spell and we basically don't have cold. Palms can suffer because of the cool long winters. They seldom suffer direct damage due to cold, they can collapse for diseases associated to cold or set slowly back for lack of warmth.

Many tropical palm seedlings can yellow during our long cool winters. They stop yellowing when 2-3 years old, when they get some very tiny stem.

A brief abstract of hints:

Yellowing = Lack of food

Food       = photosinthesis (newly produced) or starch (stored)

Winter     = weak photosinthesis

Stem       = Stored starch

This is only true for the strictly tropicals. Most palms do love our winter: rain promotes growth and cold weather wipes away the bugs. Many rainforest palms from not-too-hot places look better in winter.

Oceanic climates are very even and the difference between a typical cold night of February and the coldest night ever recorded is often just 1 or 2 C. So palms "never die" here, they can look ugly for years but they seldom get the final shot.

Agony is the word. If you chose the wrong palm it won't die, it will just enter into a neverending agony.

For comparison, Daryl at 28S in Queensland has Temp Extremes 4C-42C, we, at 28N in the Canary Islands, have Temp.extremes of about 11C-42C (but usually 13-33C in one year)

Carlo

[cfkingfish]

I have been a masichist (sp?) in the past and put some palms out to check cold hardiness of the ultrasensitive plants. Here is what I have found:

Manicaria sacchifera - will look very ratty after anything below 50F in a 3 gallon.

Cyrtostachys - One gallon burned a little after 43F.

Phoenicophorium burned at 43.5, just a tad.

Nephrosperma vanhoutteanum and Verchschaffeltia - burned after 41-42F.

Deckenia nobilis burned a little at 36F.

I don't have a Lodoicea, so I can't testify, but Roscheria melanochates was fine at 36F and I haven't gotten lower than that in the three years as a palm savage.

I could imagine some of the dwarf Borneean Licualas, Pinangas and Arecas (minuta, subacaulis), because of their wet, humid, equatorial habitat would be very wimpy as well.

[The Germinator]

(Dave from So-Cal @ Feb. 08 2007,17:57)

QUOTE

(The Germinator @ Feb. 07 2007,05:21)

QUOTE

Lipsticks

Coconuts

Manillas

I can not keep any of these alive in SOCAL, My Manilla Palm is on life support in my cube at work, it might actually survive.

Ed!

LOVE the avatar!

Hmm.  Where'd you get it?  Are you now the Pope of Whittier/La Habra?

Come visit again, soon, Holiness . . ..

dave

I designed on some website on the net.

I think its Mahony incognito at the Local NMBLA convention.

[SubTropicRay]

Nephrosperma, Roscheria and Deckenia are extremely tender.

[tim_brissy_13]

(Ray, Tampa @ Feb. 09 2007,17:59)

QUOTE

Nephrosperma, Roscheria and Deckenia are extremely tender.

I'm pretty sure Roscheria is growing in the Sydney Botanic Gardens, which couldn't even be considered subtropical.

[aussiearoids]

I have seen Pigafetta growing up over 1000masl in North Sulawesi , they were in a National Park around Lake Tondano ? Lots of Areca vestiara and Nepenthes maxima also . Remember freezing in the uncomfortable beds at the park BRRRRR

NB I feel cold getting close to 20C

chilly is 17 -19

14 - 16 put on all clothes ie. 3 pairs of socks , t-shirts and shirts , jumper , jacket , and slip into down sleeping bag .

temperatures below this do not exist for me , as I would have gone into hibernation and suffered from brain freeze  

[Gileno Machado]

For me it has to be the Manicaria saccifera...

I've tried to place one of my seedlings outside of the protected shadecloth area in the breeze but she kept waving goodbye...  (probably homesick of AmazonDK's original place).

Now she is back to her favourite spot, where the night temperatures don't drop below 28°C...

[Tyrone]

(tim_brissy_13 @ Feb. 10 2007,06:32)

QUOTE

(Ray @ Tampa,Feb. 09 2007,17:59)

QUOTE

Nephrosperma, Roscheria and Deckenia are extremely tender.

I'm pretty sure Roscheria is growing in the Sydney Botanic Gardens, which couldn't even be considered subtropical.

I never saw Roscheria out in the open at SBG, but I did see them in pots in the foyer area for the hothouse sections. Not an outdoor palm in Sydney I think.

regards

Tyrone

[Carlo Morici]

(Gileno Machado @ Feb. 11 2007,12:06)

QUOTE

Now she is back to her favourite spot, where the night temperatures don't drop below 28°C...

You have a spot where never goes below 28 C ? ? ? ?

Is it your oven?