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Washingtonia filifera in Cocoa beach


empireo22

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Can anyone confirm that this filifera? It is exposed to salty conditions aswell as high humidity. its trunk was much fatter than the robusta's in the area.

http://goo.gl/maps/pMnfR

the trunk looks too thin to be a pure filifera, its probably a filibusta. The washie filifera is a true desert palm, it just doesn't like the high humidity. But a cross with washie robusta seems to do very well on the gulf coast and in the desert. Pure washie filiferas are kind of rare in most of the US as they readily hybridize with washie robustas. Out in the Arizona desert west of phoenix (in the upper desert), there are fruiting stands in places where robustas cannot survive. There are some huge (likely) pure filiferas on "palm avenue" downtown phoenix that have clean trunks that are 4' thick at the base and trun 50+(?) foot tall. Once you see these, you will understand.

Formerly in Gilbert AZ, zone 9a/9b. Now in Palmetto, Florida Zone 9b/10a??

 

Tom Blank

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Here is a street view of the crossroads of central ave/west palm lane.

https://www.google.com/maps?q=&layer=c&z=17&iwloc=A&sll=33.469429,-112.073916&cbp=13,277.8,0,0,0&cbll=33.469424,-112.073873&ei=LyzXUfDhC8nJ0wGw3YH4Cw&ved=0CCsQxB0wAA

You will need to look east for the older ones(180 degree turn) and zoom to see the sidewalk width vs trunk width...

Edited by sonoranfans

Formerly in Gilbert AZ, zone 9a/9b. Now in Palmetto, Florida Zone 9b/10a??

 

Tom Blank

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Purebred W. filifera here in FL don't always look like the ones you see in high deserts. There is a confirmed W. filifera in Faith Bishock's garden here in Sarasota that is way thinner than one would expect. I know of only a handful of W. filifera in our area that look like the true AZ/CA types.

I do agree however that it's probably a hybrid. There is unfortunately a question of "where would a Washingtonia filifera come from as a street tree in Florida"?

I also agree with Tom that places where W. robusta don't survive are the best places to collect W. filifera seeds. If you are ever in Tombstone, AZ there is a nice fruiting Washingtonia only a couple of blocks from the O. K. Corral site (or at least was 4 years ago). At 4500' elevation in a desert it's undoubtedly a reliable W. filifera. There are also some other fruiting W. filifera specimens I saw in SE Arizona in places like Sierra Vista and Bisbee. And although I saw plenty of W. robusta at lower elevation (in Tuscon for example) I don't remember seeing any of them with flowers or fruit.

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Yes it could be that a pure filifera can grow in south florida, but it would require special care(drainage would have to be quite good). Even finding a pure filifera in Arizona(the native range) is not easy because they cross breed. I agree Alex, it has to be in an area where robusta cannot flower, at higher elevation in a colder area. I used to know a nurseryman who knew of such a place in the higher elevations west of phoenix. He would go up and get seed to plant. He said he did not trust anything that was not collected in such a habitat. A friend of mine bought some 15 gallon palms from this guy and they were 25' tall overall with 3' thick trunks in 7 years. If you look in the street view pic I posted, turn it 180 degrees and zoom. the sidewalk there I stepped off as ~ 6' wide(6 of my size 12 feet) to give you an idea of width.

Formerly in Gilbert AZ, zone 9a/9b. Now in Palmetto, Florida Zone 9b/10a??

 

Tom Blank

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I have one here in So Louisiana that was labeled as filifera when I bought it and the petioles seem to support that. I planted it square in the middle of a very well drained old gravel road. It is not growing nearly so fast as my robusta and filibusta, about half the rate, but so far it looks good.

In my post I sometimes express "my" opinion. Warning, it may differ from "your" opinion. If so, please do not feel insulted, just state your own if you wish. Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or any other damages

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Extremely interesting topic! As far as I'm aware of, on large filifera specimens petioles are almost unarmed. Is that true? When (at which stage of its life) starts a pure filifera to produce unarmed leaves, e.g. after first time blooming or shortly prior to it or after having attained a certain height?

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I have 3 filifera that I started from seed in 2001. They are slow growing comparing them to the Washingtonias that are most often grown in these parts. After 12 years the palms have 7' of trunk and only hold 10 -12 green leaves. The trunks are fat' but not as fat as I was expecting. I am happy that they have not grown so fast.

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It probaly is a filibusta. Is it possible that a filibusta can lean more to the filifera side? the other washingtonia behind that one are thinner and much taller than it. assuming they were planted at the same time and size the other two lean more on the robusta side, they are thinner and taller? is this possible?

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My neighbor has a fairly thick trunked filibusta, maybe 3/4 a filifera. The fillabusta are very adaptable to the florida environment, his grow fast. Some of the tells of robusta blood are coppery leafbases(vs grey), color, leaf size, notably bigger thorns on petioles, etc. It is possible that this is a stunted filifera, stunted by root system dieback in the wet cool ground in winter. But washingtonia are like phoenix, the readily hybridize so its hard to know what the purity is. Here is a pic of palm lane with the filiferas dwarfing a fire hydrant.

Formerly in Gilbert AZ, zone 9a/9b. Now in Palmetto, Florida Zone 9b/10a??

 

Tom Blank

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It probaly is a filibusta. Is it possible that a filibusta can lean more to the filifera side? the other washingtonia behind that one are thinner and much taller than it. assuming they were planted at the same time and size the other two lean more on the robusta side, they are thinner and taller? is this possible?

By all means http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?/topic/35578-variation-among-filibusta-hybrids/, especially with f1b hybrids

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Can anyone confirm that this filifera? It is exposed to salty conditions aswell as high humidity. its trunk was much fatter than the robusta's in the area.

http://goo.gl/maps/pMnfR

the trunk looks too thin to be a pure filifera, its probably a filibusta. The washie filifera is a true desert palm, it just doesn't like the high humidity. But a cross with washie robusta seems to do very well on the gulf coast and in the desert. Pure washie filiferas are kind of rare in most of the US as they readily hybridize with washie robustas. Out in the Arizona desert west of phoenix (in the upper desert), there are fruiting stands in places where robustas cannot survive. There are some huge (likely) pure filiferas on "palm avenue" downtown phoenix that have clean trunks that are 4' thick at the base and trun 50+(?) foot tall. Once you see these, you will understand.

I agree with the "understand" part!

I first took notice of filiferas years ago in downtown Sacramento. Some streets there near the capital are lined with them. The trunks are absolutely massive compared to robustas. They are very impressive.

Larry 

Palm Harbor, FL 10a / Ft Myers, FL 10b

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Looks like a mostly filifera filibusta. The true filiferas around here have paler green leaves and a lot of filaments on the leaves

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Looks like a filibusta that is mostly filifera. The true filiferas around here have paler green leaves with a lot of filaments.

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  • 1 month later...

saw this palm again today.....trunk is so fat and it also has alot of filaments i didnt notice the filaments on the robustas behind it.....do filabustas have filaments?

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Has anyone ever collected W. filifera seeds in Palm Canyon in Palm Springs?

Seems to me that seeds collected here would be pure filifera, as the parents are growing quite a distance from the robustas growing in the valley.

I hiked this canyon this spring and saw seeds sprouting underwater in the stream.

Seeds were too high to reach.

post-332-0-97791200-1376454859_thumb.jpg

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  • 2 weeks later...

I agree, looks like a hybrid. I see these occasionally around here. You see a group of W. robusta and one has a much fatter robust trunk and really stands out. There are some at EPCOT and at Sea World like that. There is one real nice nice at Fashion Square Mall in Orlando.

Eric

Orlando, FL

zone 9b/10a

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I know of 2 plantings of Washingtonia filifera around here. The entrance road at Hard Rock Hotel is lined with dozens, broght in from CA. Also one of the ORMC hospital buildings along Orange Ave. just south of downtown has some planted. This is the building also has the stepped terrace with all the Livistona chinensis planted.

We also have a nice W. filifera here at Leu Gardens planted in the Arid Garden. It is in full sun, poor sandy soil. This Garden gets no irrigation, only rainfall. So it gets very dry during the dry season.

Eric

Orlando, FL

zone 9b/10a

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  • 2 years later...

I know of 2 plantings of Washingtonia filifera around here. The entrance road at Hard Rock Hotel is lined with dozens, broght in from CA. Also one of the ORMC hospital buildings along Orange Ave. just south of downtown has some planted. This is the building also has the stepped terrace with all the Livistona chinensis planted.

 

We also have a nice W. filifera here at Leu Gardens planted in the Arid Garden. It is in full sun, poor sandy soil. This Garden gets no irrigation, only rainfall. So it gets very dry during the dry season.

Just found both mentioned plantings of filifera in Orlando on streetview. Ones at the Hard Rock Hotel look a little stressed: but those near that hospital building look awesome.

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Some of the ones at Hard Rock have died over the years and they have replaced them with Washingtonia robusta or hybrids.

 

 

Eric

Orlando, FL

zone 9b/10a

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More power to you all who can have Filifera or Filibusta survive in our humidity. I killed 300+ filifera seedlings and a few hundred filibusta too before I just quit irrigating them. Some of the filibusta look okay now that I moved them to where they get very little water.  

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