cyphophoenix nucele surprise

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

Last March I decided to plant a couple of cyphophoenix. If I were to go by G. Stein's reviews of these palms on Dave's Garden, I'd expect that cyphophoenix elegans is slow, putting out only 1-2 leaves per year, and cyphophoenix nucele is supposed to be more finicky and even slower.

Well, surprise surprise, my cyphophoenix nucele didn't read Dave's Garden and has been cranking out frond after frond, two so far and working on the third one, it's in full sun, which could account for some of the speed, but this thing is anything but slow. The c. elegans is definitely slower, but it's also pushing new leaves, at the rate it's going it's going to be more than 2 for the year, perhaps 3, but quite a bit slower than c. nucele.

So why are these palms rated "slow"? The elegans perhaps, but nucele is not at all slow from what I can tell. It's cranking a bit like a king palm. Nucele does seem more tender, but it's definitely much, much faster than elegans.

All of these palms are growing in my sandy hillside, the soil temperature is around 80F, not sure if that would account for some of the speed. At that temperature, i am watering every couple of days to keep things moist. Plus plenty of fertilizer.

[LJG]

Axel, this is the same reason as plants coming out of the greenhouse. I have many of these plants, and yes, they are slow. 2 leaves a year sometimes 3. I would wait to make judgment calls on any of your new plants until they make it through one winter in the cool ground. Pots can be warmed easily and get the plant going earlier. The ground takes a while to warm up and hence takes a while for the plant to get growing again. You are going to look back on these post in a few years and laugh.

[Walter John]

I have found nucele to be a stronger hardier grower, I currently do not have an elegans as I lost it a couple of years ago, might try anothery.

[Pedro 65]

Axel, this is the same reason as plants coming out of the greenhouse. I have many of these plants, and yes, they are slow. 2 leaves a year sometimes 3. I would wait to make judgment calls on any of your new plants until they make it through one winter in the cool ground. Pots can be warmed easily and get the plant going earlier. The ground takes a while to warm up and hence takes a while for the plant to get growing again. You are going to look back on these post in a few years and laugh.

I agree Len and Axel, Cyphophoenix elegans is the "Fastest" of all the Cyphophoenix and very very hardy, the pic below of the blue/grey trunk of elegans has its peduncle up at a height of 7 ft , our Cypho Nuceles are no larger than the Cypho alba to the right of the elegans. Jastin, yes I do have spare elegans seed for you, the other seed left today. Pete

[George Sparkman]

Axel,

is your soil temperature 80f right now and if so at what depth ?

[quaman58]

I can get C. elegans to grow in the sun, but repeated attempts with nucele in full sun have always resulted in less than beautiful specimens.

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

Axel, this is the same reason as plants coming out of the greenhouse. I have many of these plants, and yes, they are slow. 2 leaves a year sometimes 3. I would wait to make judgment calls on any of your new plants until they make it through one winter in the cool ground. Pots can be warmed easily and get the plant going earlier. The ground takes a while to warm up and hence takes a while for the plant to get growing again. You are going to look back on these post in a few years and laugh.

Len, I am pretty sure I will be laughing at all my posts. In this case, no greenhouse momentum, these plants spent the Winter outdoors, no growth on them until I put them in the ground in March. I am sure it will shut down in Nov. The soil is light and sandy where it's planted, definitely a quick warm up in the Spring because of the hill and the retaining wall. I just have a hunch it's the extra warm soil that is causing the rapid growth.

Axel,

is your soil temperature 80f right now and if so at what depth ?

This specimen is behind an 8 feet brick retaining wall which gets hit full blast by afternoon sun, so it's that warm down pretty far, probably not 80F all the way down, but above 70F. I just planted a hurricane palm further down the retaining wall and the soil was warm all the way down a 2 feet hole. The entire hillside gets blasted with hot sun. I wonder if that's the reason it's growing as it is. The elegans is growing well too, but it's behind a pressure treated wood retaining wall and gets hot sun only 2-3 hours, so it's slightly cooler.

Because of the bricks, the heat stays in during the night, so it doesn't really cool off.

I can get C. elegans to grow in the sun, but repeated attempts with nucele in full sun have always resulted in less than beautiful specimens.

Yes, the frond exposed to the south on the nucele got slightly burned when I planted it, it didn't like 96F, but it quickly outgrew past the burn with hardy fronds. The new fronds are lime green and unphased by the sun.

[LJG]

Axel mine is just opening it's first leaf of the year. It is impossible for that plant to put on its third leaf by this time in the ground. Also, you will find thick leafed plants like Nuceale take longer to show leaf burn. It can take a few months in summer.

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

Axel mine is just opening it's first leaf of the year. It is impossible for that plant to put on its third leaf by this time in the ground. Also, you will find thick leafed plants like Nuceale take longer to show leaf burn. It can take a few months in summer.

Don't say "impossible", there's lots we don't know. I can tell you that your experience doesn't match mine. I planted mine, and everything was fine until we hit 96F, by the next day, the burn was very visible. Same as for my kentia. No need to wait 6 months.

And mine has opened up two leaves so far, and the spear for the third one is growing fast. Call it impossible, scream obscenities, and here's another data point to make it even more impossible: our low this Morning was 47F.

All I can tell you is that New Caledonia stuff seems to love my hillside soil and seems to dig the sharp daily temperature gradients, I am not sure why, I have not done a soils analysis. Lows have consistently been running in the upper 40's to low 50's, with highs ranging anywhere from as cool as 64F for a couple of days to as high as 96F twice so far, but mostly in the 70's to low 80's. The palm went in the ground in March and took off right then. The only soil data point I have is that neither citrus nor avocado will grow in it, but palms grow up there like weeds.

Explanations? I don't have any, ask George, I believe this plant came from his shade clothed ridge-top, not a greenhouse in any measure. Maybe mine is some sort of hybrid?

As an additional data point, I also bought a roystonea borinquena from George, that thing has not budged, nothing, nada, not even a mm. Must be the cold lows. Came from the same place.

[richnorm]

Extrapolating the results of 3 months is ridiculous.

[pogobob]

Sell me some of that Axel grease so I can get 12 leaves a year!

[LJG]

Extrapolating the results of 3 months is ridiculous.

Agreed. Especially coming from someone that consistently talks of scientific measures and multiple data points.

Axel, I can say "guaranteed" because I am telling you that plant will not give you two opened leaves and the start of a third by this time again next year after its first winter in ground.

[MattyB]

My Kentias had three spears coming out of winter and has opened all three of those leaves this spring. Did my Kentia grow three leaves in 2 months? No.

[Jastin]

Most of my palms no matter where they come from are way faster when I first plant them and then just like EVERYONE else is saying, they slow down due to it being out of the hot pot and into our soil. I hate putting my foot in my mouth and that's why I tend to listen to people with more knowledge and experience. Sleep creep leap (1st,2nd,and 3ed year in ground).

Pete, Thanks and beautiful pics!

Matt, my DD put out 2 leaves in 2 weeks...or was it just that they both wouldn't open for over a year

[Walter John]

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

Man! What a tough crowd, jeeze. Can you guys just share what you know and skip the hazing and bullying for a moment? Gets kinda old. If I wasn't 6'1" and full of muscle you'd probably try to stuff me into a mailbox. Matty, you're the worst of the bunch. I might just have to do a kentia videocam just for you. They grow way better up here where it's much cooler. Yes, some things grow better in Norcal.

If you want to see the Palm Society flourish, you're gonna have to learn to skip the high school level "click" manners and try to be more inclusive with respectful and inquisitive discussion. If someone gets different results than you, it's probably because they don't live in Southern California, don't have the same soil and terrain and don't have the same conditions than you have. And maybe they do and still have different results. The plants don't read the books.

I was looking for a reasonable explanation for why my nucele would so much outpace my elegans, both did NOT come from a hot place, try 27F exposure and cold soil. I think George has pointed to the possible reason - the excessively heated soil.

[pogobob]

I just got done planting 3 large encephalartos longifolius from 24" boxes this afternoon, and you guys got me thinking about soil temps. At the surface the temp was 97F 3" depth at 2pm. At the bottom of the hole 26" the temp was 83f! This is on a fully exposed west facing gentle slope. Pretty interesting stuff eh?

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

I just got done planting 3 large encephalartos longifolius from 24" boxes this afternoon, and you guys got me thinking about soil temps. At the surface the temp was 97F 3" depth at 2pm. At the bottom of the hole 26" the temp was 83f! This is on a fully exposed west facing gentle slope. Pretty interesting stuff eh?

83F at 26" is impressive, what's the slope angle, any ideas? Right now around solstice the soil temps would be at their hottest because of the sun angle.

[richnorm]

Trouble is Axel, we share our experiences and opinions then you tell us bluntly that we are talking nonsense. That's what gets "old", it's not about cliques.

[JEFF IN MODESTO]

I have a small 5gal sized Cyphophoenix elegans planted in the the shade of my lychee tree.

While it isn't a barn burner , I'm sure do the fact it's shaded, it did survive our 48f winter soil without damage .

It put out 2 two leaves this spring, which is the same as my dypsis decipiens.

[MattyB]

Without standing in front of someone, and only reading text, we often color the words of others with our own neurosis, subconscious preconceptions, insecurities, etc. There's an infinite amount of subtext that one might or might not be saying when they type two sentences. Just because someone likes to cut to the point doesn't mean they are aiming for your quick.

[LJG]

Axel, I try hard with you man. I have nothing personal against you and having meet you you seem like a real nice guy. But when you come here espousing your few month old observations and passing on actual facts from seasoned growers, well that is bound to cause backlash.

[LJG]

I have a small 5gal sized Cyphophoenix elegans planted in the the shade of my lychee tree.

While it isn't a barn burner , I'm sure do the fact it's shaded, it did survive our 48f winter soil without damage .

It put out 2 two leaves this spring, which is the same as my dypsis decipiens.

Wow Jeff. At that rate it will be trunking shortly.

[JEFF IN MODESTO]

Lol

[JEFF IN MODESTO]

I have a small 5gal sized Cyphophoenix elegans planted in the the shade of my lychee tree.

While it isn't a barn burner , I'm sure do the fact it's shaded, it did survive our 48f winter soil without damage .

It put out 2 two leaves this spring, which is the same as my dypsis decipiens.

Wow Jeff. At that rate it will be trunking shortly.

I donno a thing about em, just sharing an experience .

If they are anything like my dypsis decipiens, it will take about 10 years to trunk.

I'm just surprised it survived the winter unharmed!

Edited June 20, 2013 by Jeff in Modesto

[LJG]

I have a small 5gal sized Cyphophoenix elegans planted in the the shade of my lychee tree.

While it isn't a barn burner , I'm sure do the fact it's shaded, it did survive our 48f winter soil without damage .

It put out 2 two leaves this spring, which is the same as my dypsis decipiens.

Wow Jeff. At that rate it will be trunking shortly.

I donno a thing about em, just sharing an experience .

If they are anything like my dypsis decipiens, it's will take about 10 years to trunk.

Jeff, were these leaves like MattyB is referring to where they are spears that were really grown in fall/winter and then opened in Spring? Or actually new leaves like Axel said he got this Spring? Just curious. Glad this plant does well for you.

[JEFF IN MODESTO]

It's a small plant, I'm thinking it had a single spear in fall that opened in spring.

Too early to tell if it will do ok for me.

Once it gets out of the shade of my lychee, it will get the full force of our blazing hot summer and chilly winters.

[LJG]

It's a small plant, I'm thinking it had a single spear in fall that opened in spring.

Too early to tell if it will do ok for me.

Once it gets out of the shade of my lychee, it will get the full force of our blazing hot summer and chilly winters.

Hopefully your lychee tree out grows it and can be limbed up to keep it under cover.

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

Stop that Axel guy, he's a heretic!

Ahhh, all this ranting for nothing...

3 months is way too early to tell, I was just passing along the fact that p. nucele seems to be taking our signature Central California Coastal yoyo diurnal temperature swings without any issues here and has already beat the 1-2 frond per year metric, growing faster than elegans. This appears to be an anomaly based on Dave's Garden and Socal Palm Book, but not according to PalmPedia:

Habitat and Distribution

Endemic only to Lifou Is. (Loyalty Is. chain) New Caledonia - located around 50m elevation, in rain forests. Substratum Madreporic on limestone, only endemic NewCal palm occuring on limestone (raised coral).

Description

Hight: 10 to 12 m., with a diam. of up to 20 cm. wide, greenish yellow, Slightly widened towards the base, crown holds up to 8 leaves spreading; crownshaft, 50-60 cm. long, covered with a whitish tomentum, except at the base. Petiole almost non existent. Inflorescences 1-2, 50 to 90 cm. long, spread out and erect a whitish green. Fruit ellipsoid, orange-red when ripe, with a smooth endocarp. Editing by edric.

Culture

Very sun tolerant in coastal So-Cal, a fairly easy grow, but a little slow but fastest of the Genera. Hardiness: USDA zones, 10A-11.

This offers two specific clues:

1) Fastest of the genera, which is consistent from what I see between the two species I have.

2) Loves lime soil, this would also explain how it's growing well so far on my hillside. My hillside is pretty much raised ocean floor.

So there you have it, mystery solved.

I may not get a leaf a month, but I am very happy with how it's growing. At this rate, I expect 3 leaves per year, and with some sorcery maybe even four thanks to the lovely hot wall it's sitting next to, which also happens to be brick filled with lime! My elegans in contrast, I would consider myself lucky if it cranks out two entire new leaves by Xmas. No pressure, I'll settle for one this year.

[MattyB]

Fun

[Pedro 65]

Stop that Axel guy, he's a heretic!

Ahhh, all this ranting for nothing...

3 months is way too early to tell, I was just passing along the fact that p. nucele seems to be taking our signature Central California Coastal yoyo diurnal temperature swings without any issues here and has already beat the 1-2 frond per year metric, growing faster than elegans. This appears to be an anomaly based on Dave's Garden and Socal Palm Book, but not according to PalmPedia:

Habitat and Distribution

Endemic only to Lifou Is. (Loyalty Is. chain) New Caledonia - located around 50m elevation, in rain forests. Substratum Madreporic on limestone, only endemic NewCal palm occuring on limestone (raised coral).

Description

Hight: 10 to 12 m., with a diam. of up to 20 cm. wide, greenish yellow, Slightly widened towards the base, crown holds up to 8 leaves spreading; crownshaft, 50-60 cm. long, covered with a whitish tomentum, except at the base. Petiole almost non existent. Inflorescences 1-2, 50 to 90 cm. long, spread out and erect a whitish green. Fruit ellipsoid, orange-red when ripe, with a smooth endocarp. Editing by edric.

Culture

Very sun tolerant in coastal So-Cal, a fairly easy grow, but a little slow but fastest of the Genera. Hardiness: USDA zones, 10A-11.

This offers two specific clues:

1) Fastest of the genera, which is consistent from what I see between the two species I have.

2) Loves lime soil, this would also explain how it's growing well so far on my hillside. My hillside is pretty much raised ocean floor.

So there you have it, mystery solved.

I may not get a leaf a month, but I am very happy with how it's growing. At this rate, I expect 3 leaves per year, and with some sorcery maybe even four thanks to the lovely hot wall it's sitting next to, which also happens to be brick filled with lime! My elegans in contrast, I would consider myself lucky if it cranks out two entire new leaves by Xmas. No pressure, I'll settle for one this year.

All this ranting and "who" is doing it all, post some pics of your palms, better to look at than blah blah blah, you like to write to make people think "you know it all" and you are at the "very start" of your "palm growing journey" which through "trial and error" you learn and can pass it on, and "trial and errors " can take some time, Axel ask "Anyone" who has been growing Palms from New Caledonia for quite a time and they will tell you "straight" that Elegans is the" Fastest" of the Cyphophoenix genus, look fwd to pics of the palms you are raving about, happy growing Pete

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

Stop that Axel guy, he's a heretic!

Ahhh, all this ranting for nothing...

3 months is way too early to tell, I was just passing along the fact that p. nucele seems to be taking our signature Central California Coastal yoyo diurnal temperature swings without any issues here and has already beat the 1-2 frond per year metric, growing faster than elegans. This appears to be an anomaly based on Dave's Garden and Socal Palm Book, but not according to PalmPedia:

Habitat and Distribution

Endemic only to Lifou Is. (Loyalty Is. chain) New Caledonia - located around 50m elevation, in rain forests. Substratum Madreporic on limestone, only endemic NewCal palm occuring on limestone (raised coral).

Description

Hight: 10 to 12 m., with a diam. of up to 20 cm. wide, greenish yellow, Slightly widened towards the base, crown holds up to 8 leaves spreading; crownshaft, 50-60 cm. long, covered with a whitish tomentum, except at the base. Petiole almost non existent. Inflorescences 1-2, 50 to 90 cm. long, spread out and erect a whitish green. Fruit ellipsoid, orange-red when ripe, with a smooth endocarp. Editing by edric.

Culture

Very sun tolerant in coastal So-Cal, a fairly easy grow, but a little slow but fastest of the Genera. Hardiness: USDA zones, 10A-11.

This offers two specific clues:

1) Fastest of the genera, which is consistent from what I see between the two species I have.

2) Loves lime soil, this would also explain how it's growing well so far on my hillside. My hillside is pretty much raised ocean floor.

So there you have it, mystery solved.

I may not get a leaf a month, but I am very happy with how it's growing. At this rate, I expect 3 leaves per year, and with some sorcery maybe even four thanks to the lovely hot wall it's sitting next to, which also happens to be brick filled with lime! My elegans in contrast, I would consider myself lucky if it cranks out two entire new leaves by Xmas. No pressure, I'll settle for one this year.

All this ranting and "who" is doing it all, post some pics of your palms, better to look at than blah blah blah, you like to write to make people think "you know it all" and you are at the "very start" of your "palm growing journey" which through "trial and error" you learn and can pass it on, and "trial and errors " can take some time, Axel ask "Anyone" who has been growing Palms from New Caledonia for quite a time and they will tell you "straight" that Elegans is the" Fastest" of the Cyphophoenix genus, look fwd to pics of the palms you are raving about, happy growing Pete

Peter, you're confusing my joy of writing and of asking questions and being inquisitive with "knowing it all". The way I see it, it seems there's a small consortium of you old time PalmTalk folks who seem to think you know it all. I don't know how much you actually know, but if you're gonna defend some sort of status quo about palm knowledge, then be prepared to have me challenge it every chance I got. All knowledge and theories are supposed to get challenged. That's how we learn more.

I've been on this palm growing journey for 15 years and I still don't have a clue. And I bet any of you don't have any more of a clue when it comes to growing New Caledonia palms in my climate. I don't know anyone who grows this stuff anywhere near me. It's never been done before, and that's part of the fun. Growing New Caledonia palms in Southern California or NSW is just not the same thing as growing them in Central California. Cold overnight lows and warm daytime temperatures create a cocktail of conditions unlike yours and not even like New Zealand.

We get all sorts of bonuses and drawbacks - better Winter hardening, but less acces to real tropical growing stuff, and we don't get sudden death on parajubaeas. How New Caledonia palms are going to react to these sorts of conditions is a big giant unknown, so far, I like what I see.

I'll post pictures when I get a chance. It's a pain in a butt to climb up there snap the photo, downloading it, and uploading it.

[Pedro 65]

Stop that Axel guy, he's a heretic!

Ahhh, all this ranting for nothing...

3 months is way too early to tell, I was just passing along the fact that p. nucele seems to be taking our signature Central California Coastal yoyo diurnal temperature swings without any issues here and has already beat the 1-2 frond per year metric, growing faster than elegans. This appears to be an anomaly based on Dave's Garden and Socal Palm Book, but not according to PalmPedia:

Habitat and Distribution

Endemic only to Lifou Is. (Loyalty Is. chain) New Caledonia - located around 50m elevation, in rain forests. Substratum Madreporic on limestone, only endemic NewCal palm occuring on limestone (raised coral).

Description

Hight: 10 to 12 m., with a diam. of up to 20 cm. wide, greenish yellow, Slightly widened towards the base, crown holds up to 8 leaves spreading; crownshaft, 50-60 cm. long, covered with a whitish tomentum, except at the base. Petiole almost non existent. Inflorescences 1-2, 50 to 90 cm. long, spread out and erect a whitish green. Fruit ellipsoid, orange-red when ripe, with a smooth endocarp. Editing by edric.

Culture

Very sun tolerant in coastal So-Cal, a fairly easy grow, but a little slow but fastest of the Genera. Hardiness: USDA zones, 10A-11.

This offers two specific clues:

1) Fastest of the genera, which is consistent from what I see between the two species I have.

2) Loves lime soil, this would also explain how it's growing well so far on my hillside. My hillside is pretty much raised ocean floor.

So there you have it, mystery solved.

I may not get a leaf a month, but I am very happy with how it's growing. At this rate, I expect 3 leaves per year, and with some sorcery maybe even four thanks to the lovely hot wall it's sitting next to, which also happens to be brick filled with lime! My elegans in contrast, I would consider myself lucky if it cranks out two entire new leaves by Xmas. No pressure, I'll settle for one this year.

All this ranting and "who" is doing it all, post some pics of your palms, better to look at than blah blah blah, you like to write to make people think "you know it all" and you are at the "very start" of your "palm growing journey" which through "trial and error" you learn and can pass it on, and "trial and errors " can take some time, Axel ask "Anyone" who has been growing Palms from New Caledonia for quite a time and they will tell you "straight" that Elegans is the" Fastest" of the Cyphophoenix genus, look fwd to pics of the palms you are raving about, happy growing Pete

Peter, you're confusing my joy of writing and of asking questions and being inquisitive with "knowing it all". The way I see it, it seems there's a small consortium of you old time PalmTalk folks who seem to think you know it all. I don't know how much you actually know, but if you're gonna defend some sort of status quo about palm knowledge, then be prepared to have me challenge it every chance I got. All knowledge and theories are supposed to get challenged. That's how we learn more.

I've been on this palm growing journey for 15 years and I still don't have a clue. And I bet any of you don't have any more of a clue when it comes to growing New Caledonia palms in my climate. I don't know anyone who grows this stuff anywhere near me. It's never been done before, and that's part of the fun. Growing New Caledonia palms in Southern California or NSW is just not the same thing as growing them in Central California. Cold overnight lows and warm daytime temperatures create a cocktail of conditions unlike yours and not even like New Zealand.

We get all sorts of bonuses and drawbacks - better Winter hardening, but less acces to real tropical growing stuff, and we don't get sudden death on parajubaeas. How New Caledonia palms are going to react to these sorts of conditions is a big giant unknown, so far, I like what I see.

I'll post pictures when I get a chance. It's a pain in a butt to climb up there snap the photo, downloading it, and uploading it.

Yeh, I spose Im more a Palm grower than Palm Talker, havnt seen much of your gardens here on PT. I look fwd to seeing pics your 15 yr project

[LJG]

This is the last thing I will comment on with this Axel. You are not getting a key point. You have nothing but a few months palm growing experience with these NewCals and Dypsis you are planting yet you go around challenging books, websites and other growers as incorrect or plain wrong based on your very limited knowledge that doesn't even include one winter! If you had been growing for a few years and posted your experience people would be more willing to accept it - as seen by the many threads posted here every day by others. It amazes me someone can make such bold assumptions off only a few months experience.

[newcal]

Hi guys ,just adding my findings with growing both species here.I have found Cyphophoenix elegans to be slightly quicker in growth and considerably tougher to conditions such as wind,sun and heat over Cyphophoenix nucele.In saying that these conditions vary greatly to conditions found in coastal northern California hence the same species of palm grows differently for some people as opposed to others depending on climatic conditions,soil type,fertilizing etc etc....Cheers MIKE GREEN(NEWCAL)

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

Stop that Axel guy, he's a heretic!

Ahhh, all this ranting for nothing...

3 months is way too early to tell, I was just passing along the fact that p. nucele seems to be taking our signature Central California Coastal yoyo diurnal temperature swings without any issues here and has already beat the 1-2 frond per year metric, growing faster than elegans. This appears to be an anomaly based on Dave's Garden and Socal Palm Book, but not according to PalmPedia:

Habitat and Distribution

Endemic only to Lifou Is. (Loyalty Is. chain) New Caledonia - located around 50m elevation, in rain forests. Substratum Madreporic on limestone, only endemic NewCal palm occuring on limestone (raised coral).

Description

Hight: 10 to 12 m., with a diam. of up to 20 cm. wide, greenish yellow, Slightly widened towards the base, crown holds up to 8 leaves spreading; crownshaft, 50-60 cm. long, covered with a whitish tomentum, except at the base. Petiole almost non existent. Inflorescences 1-2, 50 to 90 cm. long, spread out and erect a whitish green. Fruit ellipsoid, orange-red when ripe, with a smooth endocarp. Editing by edric.

Culture

Very sun tolerant in coastal So-Cal, a fairly easy grow, but a little slow but fastest of the Genera. Hardiness: USDA zones, 10A-11.

This offers two specific clues:

1) Fastest of the genera, which is consistent from what I see between the two species I have.

2) Loves lime soil, this would also explain how it's growing well so far on my hillside. My hillside is pretty much raised ocean floor.

So there you have it, mystery solved.

I may not get a leaf a month, but I am very happy with how it's growing. At this rate, I expect 3 leaves per year, and with some sorcery maybe even four thanks to the lovely hot wall it's sitting next to, which also happens to be brick filled with lime! My elegans in contrast, I would consider myself lucky if it cranks out two entire new leaves by Xmas. No pressure, I'll settle for one this year.

All this ranting and "who" is doing it all, post some pics of your palms, better to look at than blah blah blah, you like to write to make people think "you know it all" and you are at the "very start" of your "palm growing journey" which through "trial and error" you learn and can pass it on, and "trial and errors " can take some time, Axel ask "Anyone" who has been growing Palms from New Caledonia for quite a time and they will tell you "straight" that Elegans is the" Fastest" of the Cyphophoenix genus, look fwd to pics of the palms you are raving about, happy growing Pete

Peter, you're confusing my joy of writing and of asking questions and being inquisitive with "knowing it all". The way I see it, it seems there's a small consortium of you old time PalmTalk folks who seem to think you know it all. I don't know how much you actually know, but if you're gonna defend some sort of status quo about palm knowledge, then be prepared to have me challenge it every chance I got. All knowledge and theories are supposed to get challenged. That's how we learn more.

I've been on this palm growing journey for 15 years and I still don't have a clue. And I bet any of you don't have any more of a clue when it comes to growing New Caledonia palms in my climate. I don't know anyone who grows this stuff anywhere near me. It's never been done before, and that's part of the fun. Growing New Caledonia palms in Southern California or NSW is just not the same thing as growing them in Central California. Cold overnight lows and warm daytime temperatures create a cocktail of conditions unlike yours and not even like New Zealand.

We get all sorts of bonuses and drawbacks - better Winter hardening, but less acces to real tropical growing stuff, and we don't get sudden death on parajubaeas. How New Caledonia palms are going to react to these sorts of conditions is a big giant unknown, so far, I like what I see.

I'll post pictures when I get a chance. It's a pain in a butt to climb up there snap the photo, downloading it, and uploading it.

Yeh, I spose Im more a Palm grower than Palm Talker, havnt seen much of your gardens here on PT. I look fwd to seeing pics your 15 yr project

I've posted a few photos, not sure why you haven't seen them, but I've been shy to post photos, I don't want to be gloating. I had a Palm Society meeting here last weekend, maybe someone took photos and will post. Troy was here too, I am sure he has a few photos. The old stuff is mostly large parajubaea cocoides and torallyi, several different kinds of caryota, a bunch of different chamadorea, brahea, prichardia, phoenix, and rhopies. I planted some chamberyonia and dypsis two years ago. But the real plunge into Madagascar and New Caledonia happened this Spring, along with a dive into the sabal genus. 15 years ago we didn't have access to most of the cool stuff you can get now.

[pogobob]

I guess I'm an old timer now, but I don't make any claims to know it all becuz I probly forget more than I remember. I can say that I planted several elegans and nuceles about 20 yrs ago and nuceles got tossed in the compost heap. The elegans grew well and were tall flowering palms at the time when we dug and boxed them in preparation to transplant them to our new place. They were fried to death last August when we had several days of 105f. The sun burned the trunks on the south facing side. Maybe Nuceles would respond to "Liming".

[JEFF IN MODESTO]

Im sure everybody has gotta be joking here!

Seriously, I can't believe the lack of civility projected on this topic.

Unless there has some major trash talk behind the scenes, I would think all the " old timers" would appear a little open minded and less threatened by a relative newcomer to palm talk.

I am absolutely possitive that the ips welcomes new ideas!

I've seen Axels palm garden. I'd say it rivals anything in SoCal , Florida and Hawaii.... Ok well almost Hawaii.

Sure, time will tell how we'll his new arrivals adapt.

Knowing Axel like I do, I'm sure he'll be reporting on his gardens progress.

Ok... I'm off my soap box.

Edited June 21, 2013 by Jeff in Modesto

[Pedro 65]

I guess I'm an old timer now, but I don't make any claims to know it all becuz I probly forget more than I remember. I can say that I planted several elegans and nuceles about 20 yrs ago and nuceles got tossed in the compost heap. The elegans grew well and were tall flowering palms at the time when we dug and boxed them in preparation to transplant them to our new place. They were fried to death last August when we had several days of 105f. The sun burned the trunks on the south facing side. Maybe Nuceles would respond to "Liming".

[LJG]

I guess I'm an old timer now, but I don't make any claims to know it all becuz I probly forget more than I remember.

Reminds me of an old quote - which I had to Google.....

"There are many tired gardeners but I've seldom met old gardeners. I know many elderly gardeners but the majority are young at heart. Gardening simply does not allow one to be mentally old, because too many hopes and dreams are yet to be realized. The one absolute of gardeners is faith. Regardless of how bad past gardens have been, every gardener believes that next year's will be better. It is easy to age when there is nothing to believe in, nothing to hope for, gardeners, however, simply refuse to grow up. --Allan Armitage"