Before and After Bismarck in Nor. Cal.

[Jim in Los Altos]

Bismarcks may be on the slow side way up this far north but this one's picking up speed finally after being in the ground for six and a half years.

June, 2006

January, 2013

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

Wow, that looks nice and big and healthy just coming out of Winter. Now does it silver up more during the Summer? It looks greenish in the photo. It must be getting some shade as it seems to have elongated leaves.

[KennyRE317]

i'm just curious but does your bismark get full sun?

[Jim in Los Altos]

Wow, that looks nice and big and healthy just coming out of Winter. Now does it silver up more during the Summer? It looks greenish in the photo. It must be getting some shade as it seems to have elongated leaves.

It's grayer blue than it appears in the photo but the older leaves tend to green out a bit. It gets half a day of sun regardless of the time of year. It's never shown any winter stress, even in 2007 when it went down to 26 degrees.

[Jim in Los Altos]

i'm just curious but does your bismark get full sun?

Kenny, it gets lots of morning sun and early afternoon 'til about 1:30 or 2 pm. It gets lots of water year round and is in well draining sandy loam/clay soil. I think it's important to buy these only when CA grown if you live in CA. I've tried a couple of Florida grown ones and they were total wimps when it came to standing up to our cool winters.

[NorCalWill]

I've attempted to grow Bismarkia 3 times here in Santa Rosa, and each time, though they survived the winter, they came out of it about 75 to 90% damaged. I don't know if it was because of the cold and wet winters here (wet ammended adobe clay and mid 20 temps) and I don't know if they would have toughened up as they got older, but I couldn't look at them all year and wait for them to grow out of it only to be nailed again the next winter, so they all ended up as compost. The ever present question in the back of my mind...should I try again? Maybe i just need to find the right one...Why am I such a fool...

Ps. They were all CA grown.

Edited May 11, 2013 by Will

[nachocarl]

Nice! Would a Bismarkia survive in a lawn with regular water? I maybe able to squeeze one in. Also which Parajubea is that? Looks great.

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

I've attempted to grow Bismarkia 3 times here in Santa Rosa, and each time, though they survived the winter, they came out of it about 75 to 90% damaged. I don't know if it was because of the cold and wet winters here (wet ammended adobe clay and mid 20 temps) and I don't know if they would have toughened up as they got older, but I couldn't look at them all year and wait for them to grow out of it only to be nailed again the next winter, so they all ended up as compost. The ever present question in the back of my mind...should I try again? Maybe i just need to find the right one...Why am I such a fool...

Ps. They were all CA grown.

I spent considerable amount of time researching this, and was equally puzzled why bismarks that can take mid 20's no problem in Phoenix and inland California would not work up North. Here is what I've gathered.

There are four ingredients to success:

1) Bismarcks get their hardiness as a result of their resistance to fire. it's not a direct cold adaptation. Small plants succumb to temperatures as high as 28F whereas large plants can sail through a 25F frost no problem. So you have to get them to gain some size before you can let them fend for themselves. In Socal, the growers cook them in hot greenhouses until the 15g size, or else they come from Florida and then sit in the field for a while to acclimate them.

2) Bismarckia do require a ton of heat to get big. In a frost free cooler zone with still enough heat to get them to grow some, they will slowly and gradually make it to bigger size. For example Santa Barbara and Bay area warm Sunset 16 and 17, but not cold 17 like San Francisco. In Northern California, either start with as big of a specimen as you can get or tent your palm during the Summer with a temporary greenhouse to get it to gain size fast.

3) Bismarckias don't like cold wet soil. In Santa Rosa, Winter is long enough and cold enough that the bismarck would park for the Winter. So you have to keep the roots dryish during the Winter at least for the first couple of years. The temporary greenhouse would still take care of that. If you have a high water table, forget growing a bismarckia. The soil needs to be fast draining even in the Winter, down to at least 6 feet.

4) Bismarckias are super root sensitive and tend to stall after transplant, even from a pot. They get going slowly, so following the crawl year one rule is safe. Again, you need to give them lots of TLC and get them to grow to some good size. They won't have the Winter hardiness from a first year in the ground. Because of this, it's not so certain that a big 30" specimen will actually work better than say a 15 gallon.

I doubt bismarckia have long term viability in Sunset zone 8 and 14 unless you give them lots of extra help every Winter. However, I think it's still worth trying out, especially if you plant on tenting them for the first 1-2 years.

[Axel Amsterdam]

An alternative for tenting is wrapping a heating cable around the trunk and adding some fleece or plastic around around the trunk (loosely so there is air ventilation).

I have done this with a syagrus in Amsterdam and it even grew right through our winter (many subfreezing days and it made a full new frond).

Now this will lead to weaker growth in my winter with low lightlevels and airtemps, but in your summer the new fronds of the bismarckia will be healthy. And it will establish much faster this way.

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

An alternative for tenting is wrapping a heating cable around the trunk and adding some fleece or plastic around around the trunk (loosely so there is air ventilation).

I have done this with a syagrus in Amsterdam and it even grew right through our winter (many subfreezing days and it made a full new frond).

Now this will lead to weaker growth in my winter with low lightlevels and airtemps, but in your summer the new fronds of the bismarckia will be healthy. And it will establish much faster this way.

The tent isn't needed in the Winter so much as in the Summer to get the palm to grow.

[Axel Amsterdam]

I meant that the heatingcable could be applied in the summer. It will boost growth, because all they really need is a warm zone around the trunk/meristeem.

With a heating cable you will see the palm starting to double it's growth after 24 hours. It works fast like that. With our current daytemps of around 16C my queen only grows a couple of mm per 24 hrs. If i turn the heat on it grows 1,5cm per 24 hours. You can literally switch the palm on. Im sure the warm meristeem activates the roots as well, so the palm will establish faster.

Edited May 11, 2013 by Axel Amsterdam

[mcwolf]

It's a long way to get a proper trunk growing but that's what dreams are about. I'm afraid that I will need a taller gate then since the wind is howling over it.

Malaga, why not. I've been to Tarifa various times many years ago and I was always stunned how mild the nights were even in the middle of winter. Try to protect it from winter rain in the first years and some extra heat always helps. Good Luck and keep us posted.

I find it quite interesting that the coconut doesn't show any leave spots yet even though we had a low of 11 degrees Celsius already and quite a few nights below 15 Celsius. In the same driveway is also an Adonidia Merillii which has a few spots already which suggests that it is more sensitive to the cold. Funny enough it doesn't get heated at all and enjoys less sun but still survived 2 winters already (1 in a pot and 1 in the ground). Let's see what this winter will teach us.

[KennyRE317]

i'm just curious but does your bismark get full sun?

Kenny, it gets lots of morning sun and early afternoon 'til about 1:30 or 2 pm. It gets lots of water year round and is in well draining sandy loam/clay soil. I think it's important to buy these only when CA grown if you live in CA. I've tried a couple of Florida grown ones and they were total wimps when it came to standing up to our cool winters.

Thanks .... I ask because I know they love lots of sun and it seems like where I would put one would get significantly more sun than the area you have yours in, only thing that I was thinking about though was that during the late fall and winter when the sun's a lot lower the bizzie might not get near as much sun but if yours is doing fine with only a few hours of direct sun it might work for me.

i'm pretty familiar with your climate since I lived in the bay area for about 7 years and I think my summers down here in Seal Beach is pretty close to yours, but your winters are quite a bit colder

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

I meant that the heatingcable could be applied in the summer. It will boost growth, because all they really need is a warm zone around the trunk/meristeem.

With a heating cable you will see the palm starting to double it's growth after 24 hours. It works fast like that. With our current daytemps of around 16C my queen only grows a couple of mm per 24 hrs. If i turn the heat on it grows 1,5cm per 24 hours. You can literally switch the palm on. Im sure the warm meristeem activates the roots as well, so the palm will establish faster.

That's an interesting idea, which I may apply to get my roystonea going, but I don't want to spend the money on the power when I can tent the thing and get it to grow gangbuster.

It's a long way to get a proper trunk growing but that's what dreams are about. I'm afraid that I will need a taller gate then since the wind is howling over it.

Malaga, why not. I've been to Tarifa various times many years ago and I was always stunned how mild the nights were even in the middle of winter. Try to protect it from winter rain in the first years and some extra heat always helps. Good Luck and keep us posted.

I find it quite interesting that the coconut doesn't show any leave spots yet even though we had a low of 11 degrees Celsius already and quite a few nights below 15 Celsius. In the same driveway is also an Adonidia Merillii which has a few spots already which suggests that it is more sensitive to the cold. Funny enough it doesn't get heated at all and enjoys less sun but still survived 2 winters already (1 in a pot and 1 in the ground). Let's see what this winter will teach us.

You posted to the wrong thread.

[Kostas]

Beautiful Jim,well done!

I also like the nearby Parajubaea you have there! Which species is it?

Regarding Bismarckia and shallow water tables,I am growing mine successfully and pretty fast with a water table that in winter can get as shallow as just 30cm below the soil level! I know it did this winter and I know it gets to 60cm below soil level every winter and stays very shallow for months! My Bismarckia is growing fine though

and hasn't had problems with my shallow water table all the years I have been growing it since a germinated seed planted in the ground Only once had a spear come out fuzzy with rot but it pushed the rot out fine on its own. It was during a winter with too much rain and wind thank blowed over my young Bismarckia. It recovered fast and fine from both being blow over and having rot on its spear!

[Jim in Los Altos]

Nice! Would a Bismarkia survive in a lawn with regular water? I maybe able to squeeze one in. Also which Parajubea is that? Looks great.

Carl, The Parajubaea to the left of the Bismarckia is P. totally torallyi and is easily growing at three times the speed of the Bismarckia. It was a small, strap leafed plant when planted. I have several Parajubaea and I'm very happy with all of them.

As far as a Bismarkia in the lawn is concerned, go for it. They love water as long as the soil drains well. As I said earlier, mine gets tons of water in the winter too and it's never phased by that. It actually opened two new leaves during the winter when we had a few warm spells.

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

I keep seeing these "new" parajubaea torallyi, they don't look anything like the jurassic size torallyi that I've got growing. Mine looks the same as the big one that almost fell over at JD Andersen and probably looks similar to Dave's giant. I wonder if there are different forms? Yours looks very nice!

[cassowaryhill]

Looks good mate! I'm more loving towards the green Bismarck but the grey does make a good show stopper esp when 2 planted at the front of a driveway. Can Parajub. grow in the tropics seeing that it comes from the Andes.

[Mauna Kea Cloudforest]

I can't vouch for the tropics, but I will say that parajubaea torallyi and sunkha thrive here where it's so hot during the day that you want get drenched to cool off, but by sunset it's time to get the fireplace going. The heat seems to be a bit more than what cocoides likes. Rumors has it that the highland palms don't like it at tropical sea level conditions, the Florida growers always complain that they don't grow down there.

[mcwolf]

Sorry, my post was indeed in the wrong thread. Too many windows open, too many palms around here, to many keys to type on