Dypsis sp. 215 / Dypsis heteromorpha

[richnorm]

Yeah, but do the flowers and fruit match PoM? There's nothing "heteromorphic" about the leaves of these plants....

[LJG]

Yeah, but do the flowers and fruit match PoM? There's nothing "heteromorphic" about the leaves of these plants....

Jeff Marcus told me his keyed out.

[MattyB]

True, I have not seen anything resembling the leaf change from juvenille to adult as mentioned in POM.

[Dypsisdean]

True, I have not seen anything resembling the leaf change from juvenille to adult as mentioned in POM.

I believe POM refers to entire leaves on "young shoots." I'm not sure exactly what that means, but I haven't ever seen the first leaves on these plants.

[richnorm]

Nah, got to be referring to the new offsets which are pinnate from the first leaf but if the flower fits.... Still don't think it likely that this form is from high altitude either.

[Dypsisdean]

Nah, got to be referring to the new offsets which are pinnate from the first leaf but if the flower fits.... Still don't think it likely that this form is from high altitude either.

Yes - that makes sense. And no, I have not seen anything but pinnate right from the start on these "shoots." But I believe the description does mentions the "reddish" coloration.

[MattyB]

For my plants, as you guys have mentioned, the first leaves have always been finely pinnate.

[Daryl]

Mine has always had the fine pinnate leaves too. However, the rest of the features do key out to that in POM except for number of stems...mine now has 16. Next time it flowers I will try to see if it is the same as the description.

Daryl

[Bags]

Daryl,

My heteromorpha produced its third flower spike this year. The other two never developed and this one looked like it was on its way until I broke it off while removing a leaf base. Hopefully next year it will flower properly we can put this dypsis mystery to bed.

[Dypsisdean]

Mine has always had the fine pinnate leaves too. However, the rest of the features do key out to that in POM except for number of stems...mine now has 16. Next time it flowers I will try to see if it is the same as the description.

Daryl

I think it is safe to say that all these Dypsis sucker and split more profusely in cultivation.

[Mandrew968]

Matty, your palm is growing very fast, it seems. From the photos I can see that it is getting much more red fuzz too--I am sold on these two palms being one and the same. I'd put this palm with your Kentiopsis pyriformis as one of my favorites from your garden.

[pigafetta]

Any update pics?…

I know Daryl's has set seed.

[Daryl]

[MattyB]

The leaves are over the house roof now on the largest stem. hard to get a pic of the other stems because there are so many. We get a lot of wind here so the fuzz gets rubbed off from all the moving fronds.

[Josh-O]

freaking awesome Matty!!

[edric]

Hi guys, are we fairly confident that D. sp. 215 is D. heteromorpha? Thanks, Ed

[Mandrew968]

I feel good about that. I have heteromorpha; and am less confident it is the true heteromorpha than I am that the two palms in question are one in the same; there has been talk that what we are calling heteromorpha is actually something else, based on the original description...

[MattyB]

I agree with Mandrew. I'm very confident that Dypsis sp. 215 and the palm pictured above labled Dypsis heteromorpha are one in the same. With the only difference being some variation in the amount of fuzz some of them produce. Mine pictured above is pretty darn fuzzy, but not quite as fuzzy as Daryl's beauty. I have another that has less fuzz and looks similar to the one Jerry posted above. But I'm pretty sure they're all the same palm.

[richnorm]

Olivier posted pictures labelled Dypsis heteromorpha which were taken in habitat (on Mt Tsaratanana). They looked nothing like these plants!

[Dypsisdean]

Olivier posted pictures labelled Dypsis heteromorpha which were taken in habitat (on Mt Tsaratanana). They looked nothing like these plants!

Are you sure the ones Olivier posted, to which you may be referring, weren't Dypsis heterophylla?

http://www.palmpedia.net/wiki/Dypsis_heterophylla

[Walter John]

Check the Hawaiians visit down under for an update photo of Daryl's palm.

[richnorm]

Olivier posted pictures labelled Dypsis heteromorpha which were taken in habitat (on Mt Tsaratanana). They looked nothing like these plants!

Are you sure the ones Olivier posted, to which you may be referring, weren't Dypsis heterophylla?

http://www.palmpedia.net/wiki/Dypsis_heterophylla

Yep, big palms.

[richnorm]

http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?/topic/38852-expedition-in-tsaratanana-madagascar/?hl=tsaratanana

[richnorm]

http://www.palmeraie-union.com/mada.php

Click on "Diaporama" for photos.

cheers R

[LJG]

Olivier posted pictures labelled Dypsis heteromorpha which were taken in habitat (on Mt Tsaratanana). They looked nothing like these plants!

Are you sure the ones Olivier posted, to which you may be referring, weren't Dypsis heterophylla?

http://www.palmpedia.net/wiki/Dypsis_heterophylla

Yep, big palms.

I don't put too much credence into the naming considering three different palms in that photo set were all called Heteromorpha. Image 11 and 15 are not even close to the same palm. For starters, one is regular leaf and the other irregular. Image 20 is even different in my opinion.

No clue if what we grow is Heteromorpha or not, but I wouldn't base what we have in cultivation on that thread.

[richnorm]

Well I'm not offering an opinion on what any of these palms are either! Olivier does have contacts at the Kew project office in Mad which help him ID palms sometimes so wonder if their input was sought in this instance. Perhaps he will read this and comment.

[LJG]

Well I'm not offering an opinion on what any of these palms are either! Olivier does have contacts at the Kew project office in Mad which help him ID palms sometimes so wonder if their input was sought in this instance. Perhaps he will read this and comment.

Understood Rich.

The one thing that I think stands out on this palms ID is that in POM it clearly states the materials available were "fairly fragmentary". With something as crazy as Dypsis, that seems dangerous. Marcus told me a year or two ago the flower and seed keyed out. Reading the description in POM, most keys out as well, including describing all the red pubescence, tristichous nature and keeled leaf. It seems the one hiccup comes from the name "indicating" variation in the leaf. Bifid to pinnate. If one was to assume the "indication" was incorrect, maybe that description is just wrong? After all, POM does say closely related to Baronii and Onily.

Again, not saying what we have is the real deal, just throwing some more ideas out there as I enjoy discussing this stuff.

[edric]

Gee, thanks guys, I think (just kidding), I will add this thread with a notation, thanks a bunch guys, Ed

[pigafetta]

Has anyone ever grown one in a temperate type climate or had them exposed to low temperatures?

If they are the real deal you would expect some potential for a variety of climates as POM says they are located at an elevation of 1300-2200 metres, although the area is in the warmer north of the Island that is still a very high elevation.

Coupled with the fact it is not a slow palm and it a visually striking fairly colourful palm suited in size to an average garden, it probably a palm with a fair degree of commercial potential.

Edited April 7, 2015 by pigafetta

[LilikoiLee]

GORGEOUS!!!!

Thanks everyone.

Lee

[richnorm]

Has anyone ever grown one in a temperate type climate or had them exposed to low temperatures?

If they are the real deal you would expect some potential for a variety of climates as POM says they are located at an elevation of 1300-2200 metres, although the area is in the warmer north of the Island that is still a very high elevation.

Coupled with the fact it is not a slow palm and it a visually striking fairly colourful palm suited in size to an average garden, it probably a palm with a fair degree of commercial potential.

They need heat big time!

[richnorm]

DSC_5769.jpg

Cut it in half Daryl, dying to see if it has deep ruminations! Should also have a depression at the base but cannot see from photo.

[pigafetta]

Has anyone ever grown one in a temperate type climate or had them exposed to low temperatures?

If they are the real deal you would expect some potential for a variety of climates as POM says they are located at an elevation of 1300-2200 metres, although the area is in the warmer north of the Island that is still a very high elevation.

Coupled with the fact it is not a slow palm and it a visually striking fairly colourful palm suited in size to an average garden, it probably a palm with a fair degree of commercial potential.

They need heat big time!

Really, thats surprising 2200 metres is a very high elevation POM also says moist montane forest (which is generally regarded as the area that is cool and moist) and there lower limit of 1300 is still quite high.

Just for interest sake comparing the elevation of possibly the three best cool climate dypsis growers.

D. decipiens 1400-2000m

D. baronii 850-1470m (including a similar area)

D. onilahensis 50-2400m (including areas in the north)

Although altitude is not everything, those three also can handle harsh dry conditions and the last two are spread out over a big range which IMO indicates adaptability a form of hardiness.

Edited April 7, 2015 by pigafetta

[Daryl]

Richnorm, the seeds have deep ruminations, but no depression (I think they are reasonably happy)

[LJG]

Richnorm, the seeds have deep ruminations, but no depression (I think they are reasonably happy)

DSC_5761-2.jpg

I would certainly call that "deep"

[richnorm]

Thanks!