Kentiopsis piersonorium

[Tyrone]

Mine are just going into a com pot with peat and placed in a warm spot..some have the caps popped so hopefully this is germination starting..however i am worried about some white mildew looking substance on some seeds..as well one looked like it was germinating but was oozeing milky mush i think it is DOA.Does anybody know if the white mildew is normal any comments appreciated.

This is typical of some in my batch does this look as though it has germinated?Thanks Craig.

How are yours going Chakoro?

Best regards

Tyrone

[LJG]

My concern too Tyrone. I bought 100 for a group of us and got them a little over a week ago. All 100 were germinated! Amazing stuff. Many had roots already but I am afraid they dried out. fingers crossed.

[chakoro]

Tyrone,No action on mine yet the caps have popped but they seemed to have stagnated .I will have to wait and see.Craig.

[Tyrone]

Thanks Len and Craig for your replies. I'll keep you posted on how mine go. They could simply be extra slow to do anything at first. We'll see.

Best regards

Tyrone

[Tyrone]

Just checked them then. The one with the start to forming a purplish spear seems OK and the thickened part behind it is still the brownish colour like when it arrived. I think it's OK. Will see in the next few days if it's OK. If it darkens up any more it's in trouble. But some palms do darken that bit up after it pops so it may be OK. Got them at 24,25C at the moment just like on Mt Panie at the moment, and at night they drop to around 20C. Nice and gentle.

Best regards

Tyrone

[Matt in SD]

I don't want to influence everyone because it's too early to know what's best, but I've got mine in a fishtank with bottom heat. It's in the 90's F pretty much 24/7 with very high humidity. I do crack the lid pretty good so it's not 100% humidity, but it's still pretty high. I got 10 seeds, all arrived germinated. 4 rotted, at least a couple of those never developed roots, I think the roots were trapped in the seed, and a one or two just damped off. The other 6 are doing fine. Two of them have the first leaf almost fully formed, two have about 1" of the first leaf out (and open), 1 has about 1/2" of the leaf out and one is still just a spike.

All I can say is that at least at this early stage, high heat and humidity can speed up growth, even for these slowpokes.

I probably won't leave them in there too long, but the first winter is a tough call...

Matt

[palmcurry]

I'm cheering you guys on from the sidelines. This awesome palm is being saved and contuinued by the right people. My greenho0use is too run down at this point to host a species like this.

[LJG]

Here is a tip for everyone. I was talking to another person that got some seed about 3 - 4 weeks earlier than me. Some of his are pushing 2 inch leaves already. Some pushed spikes and had no roots and died so he guessed maybe the roots came out and got stuck in the shell. I just took a handful of mine pushing spikes and looked and some had no roots showing. So I peeled back the hard shell and what do you know, the roots were growing into the shell. Some had started browning and dying already. So eventually this would kill them as there is no way for the roots to push past that hard shell. So tonight I peeled back about 20 and will continue with the rest tomorrow.

And I was serious about 100% germination. The cap is popped on everyone. I still think that is amazing. Now if I can just get a few of these Basselinas to pop

[Lowey]

Thanks for the information Len, very interesting

[Tyrone]

Thanks for the info everyone. I'm watching mine closely. The outside fibres do tend to break away and separate OK, but I'm scared to break any roots hidden underneath any fibres. My thoughts are that if moisture can get under the fibres the roots should still work, and then they'll push new roots out from the thickened bit anyway. I'm beginning to think that my one with a spear is already dead on arrival. I hope it proves me wrong.

Mine are in very high humidity, but I'm not going to give them high heat from the inside of my aquarium because I doubt this species would see temps much higher than 30C in the understory on Mt Panie and definitely not at this time of year. Low to mid twenties is all they'd be getting in habitat right now, and mid teens at night. I've opened the bags on them to get some air movement too. I'm treating them like the childrens ward would treat premature infants in humidi cribs with round the clock watches.

Best regards

Tyrone

[Tyrone]

Here is a tip for everyone. I was talking to another person that got some seed about 3 - 4 weeks earlier than me. Some of his are pushing 2 inch leaves already. Some pushed spikes and had no roots and died so he guessed maybe the roots came out and got stuck in the shell. I just took a handful of mine pushing spikes and looked and some had no roots showing. So I peeled back the hard shell and what do you know, the roots were growing into the shell. Some had started browning and dying already. So eventually this would kill them as there is no way for the roots to push past that hard shell. So tonight I peeled back about 20 and will continue with the rest tomorrow.

And I was serious about 100% germination. The cap is popped on everyone. I still think that is amazing. Now if I can just get a few of these Basselinas to pop

What Basselinias did you get?

[Tyrone]

I don't want to influence everyone because it's too early to know what's best, but I've got mine in a fishtank with bottom heat. It's in the 90's F pretty much 24/7 with very high humidity. I do crack the lid pretty good so it's not 100% humidity, but it's still pretty high. I got 10 seeds, all arrived germinated. 4 rotted, at least a couple of those never developed roots, I think the roots were trapped in the seed, and a one or two just damped off. The other 6 are doing fine. Two of them have the first leaf almost fully formed, two have about 1" of the first leaf out (and open), 1 has about 1/2" of the leaf out and one is still just a spike.

All I can say is that at least at this early stage, high heat and humidity can speed up growth, even for these slowpokes.

I probably won't leave them in there too long, but the first winter is a tough call...

Matt

How long have you had yours for?

Best regards

Tyrone

[LJG]

Here is a tip for everyone. I was talking to another person that got some seed about 3 - 4 weeks earlier than me. Some of his are pushing 2 inch leaves already. Some pushed spikes and had no roots and died so he guessed maybe the roots came out and got stuck in the shell. I just took a handful of mine pushing spikes and looked and some had no roots showing. So I peeled back the hard shell and what do you know, the roots were growing into the shell. Some had started browning and dying already. So eventually this would kill them as there is no way for the roots to push past that hard shell. So tonight I peeled back about 20 and will continue with the rest tomorrow.

And I was serious about 100% germination. The cap is popped on everyone. I still think that is amazing. Now if I can just get a few of these Basselinas to pop

What Basselinias did you get?

Basselinia sp. (Moorei), humboldtiana and favieri. Really hoping these sp. (Moorei) pop.

[Matt in SD]

Jeez Len, can't even admit you know me on here? Just kidding, anyways I posted my "story" above so no reason to be secretive. So I was right about the roots going back into the seed.

I've had mine since about June 5th. So a bit longer than most others I think.

Matt

[LJG]

Jeez Len, can't even admit you know me on here? Just kidding, anyways I posted my "story" above so no reason to be secretive. So I was right about the roots going back into the seed.

I've had mine since about June 5th. So a bit longer than most others I think.

Matt

Matt I type slower then a monkey. You posted before I was even done writing my reply so I never saw it yours

I got mine mid July. you were lucky to get yours fast. And yes a few had the roots going into the seed. A few were already dead. I am going to peel the rest once I get those boxes from you tomorrow. You should take pics of your seedlings.

[BS Man about Palms]

Here is a tip for everyone. I was talking to another person that got some seed about 3 - 4 weeks earlier than me. Some of his are pushing 2 inch leaves already. Some pushed spikes and had no roots and died so he guessed maybe the roots came out and got stuck in the shell. I just took a handful of mine pushing spikes and looked and some had no roots showing. So I peeled back the hard shell and what do you know, the roots were growing into the shell. Some had started browning and dying already. So eventually this would kill them as there is no way for the roots to push past that hard shell. So tonight I peeled back about 20 and will continue with the rest tomorrow.

And I was serious about 100% germination. The cap is popped on everyone. I still think that is amazing. Now if I can just get a few of these Basselinas to pop

Several years ago when I was on the hunt for these palms pretty hard, I talked to several who had germinated them... Almost without exception they could be traced back to the seeds given out at the New Caledonia biennial. Of note from most of the "recievers" that I spoke with, was that I believe they got 10 seeds and everyone had excellent germination.... approaching 100%.

The hard part seems to be getting them to 2 gal "plus" size. I noticed that the ones given more light and kept a bit on the dry side did much better and were more robust palms... (again, in this mediterranian climate)

I REALLY hope Gary posts his latest frond that opened! VERY spectacular! (I saw it on Sunday, but did not have a camera) Its probably just one leaf behind what my old big one was before it took a turn for the worse..

[bgl]

Bill,

Absolutely correct about the germination. Karolyn and I brought home a total of 20 seeds from New Caledonia in October 2000 and had excellent germination. Planted them out REAL early though in full sun and that killed a few of them. But the survivors are doing great! Maybe six of them.

Bo-Göran

EDIT - see my photo in post #30.

[Tyrone]

Keeping an eye on them and basically no change. The suspect one has not gone downhill so it looks stable. Temp in the day in there gently rises to around 28C, then it backs off to 20C at night. I would think that soon I would see some downhill action if they were past it. Keeping them humid and warm with the bag slightly open to help with some gas exchange.

Best regards

Tyrone

[Tyrone]

The one which came with a spear has not moved or gone backwards as far as I can tell, but I have two new spears on some other seeds and I can see movement with the expanded part of the other seeds so what ever conditions I have created they seem to be liking it. I did have some pics but something went wrong with the memory card and the computer won't read it.

Best regards

Tyrone

[BS Man about Palms]

I was at Gary Levines briefly this afternoon... I had to grab my camera to show his piersoniorum..

About the same size mine was when it carked it... But his looks great!

Then Garys leg offers some scale...

Note the pyriformis in background right..

[Tyrone]

Very nice. Thanks for those pics.

13 days after taking shipment I have 8 with spears and the one I was a little worried about didn't die but is powering along fine. Will take some pics when there is a bit more to see.

Best regards

Tyrone

[BS Man about Palms]

Good news Tyrone!

[Tyrone]

9 now.

Best regards

Tyrone

[Bags]

I received 10 seeds all germinating. I treated them with fungicide and mixed dry and wet perlite to get what I felt was enough moisture without being too wet and put them in a tupperware container without any heat. All are pushing a spike and have roots so so far so good. I have started planting small seedlings this year and have had good luck so far so I am planning on planting one out early, maybe next spring.

P.S. I am relatively new to growing seeds, but I am finding less moisture and the most sterile medium seem to work the best. Is there any reason to use potting soil vs. perlite when germinating seeds?

[Tyrone]

Is there any reason to use potting soil vs. perlite when germinating seeds?

Glad you're having great success too.

I've tried many different mediums to germinate in, and their is nothing wrong with using moist perlite etc. It is sterile so that is going for you in the hygiene area. It all depends on what you're going to do with the seedlings after they've germinated. Perlite has no organics at all, and that is fine if you are going to pot the seedling out at the 1 to 2 leaf stage into something a bit more organic. Some seedlings hate disturbance and grow slowly, so in those situations I like to put them into their own container from the get go and give them a bit more of the organics they will require when the seed runs out of puff. I find they've used the seed up by the first leaf basically and by then they are on their own and have to draw up their own nutrients and photsynthesize for themselves to live well. I have used straight potting soil (mix) for germinating but it's not really ideal. I generally mix some perlite and coconut coir to lighten it all up. Basically you want the seed to be surrounded by a humid but not wet environment. So you need to find that happy medium between the mix being light, but not drying out instantly either. Some seedlings if they dry out completely are finished. That would be an issue with using straight perlite unless you can seal in the moisture somehow. BUT, even then you can get dry spots in a closed system, so having a mix of materials in there I find makes a better mix.

Hope this helps.

Best regards

Tyrone

[Tyrone]

10 have spears now!!!!! Actually the last one had a spear for a while. I put it in the pot accidentally 90 degrees out but at the time it had not roots or spear. So the spear was growing parallel to the soil. I righted it up and although a root was growing downwards, righting the spear has meant the root is now growing parallel with the soil surface. It will sort itself out and the root will be in a bit of spaghnum moss for a while. I thought it more important to get the spear going in the right direction quickly than the roots which tend to respond quicker than the leaves to these sorts of things.

I'm really happy. Will take pictures soon.

Best regards

Tyrone

[LJG]

I wanted to add to what I posted as some might contain incorrect data. The first germinated plants that arrived germinated in the bag from RPS had a few with roots that were stuck in the seed coat and some actually were dying off. So I started pulling away the seed coat on some and then never went back and did all the rest of them. Anyway, I went and checked on a few that were germinated early again that were now in my germination mix. No need to worry about the roots not busting out. For whatever reason the seed sent out small weak roots in the bag from RPS but once in a proper germination mix, the roots that shot out were big and busted right through. Here is one seed with the first small root that stopped growing and the new, larger root now growing. Big difference. Some of the seed that had the dying roots stuck in the seed coat that I thought were lost actually were pushing out these new large roots. Maybe this is standard as I never really watched germinating seed so closely before - mostly because I never paid $8/seed before

[BS Man about Palms]

Cool Len! You can even see the piersoniorum color on that first push!

[ariscott]

Wow... $8/seeds?

[Tyrone]

Here's one of mine. Not the biggest, but it was starting to push itself out of the medium, so I had to plant him back in the soil again. While it was out I took some pics.

Ari, if you buy ten they're 98.40 Euro for the packet. It calculates to about $14 AUD a seed.

I'm really happy with these.

Best regards

Tyrone

[LJG]

Here is an update of 64 I have potted up. Of the 100 that germinated, I still have 84, 1 is lost and 15 went to FL - and of those some got eaten by rats I guess.

Here are two trays of KPs in two totally different mixes.

[Matt in SD]

Looking great Len. I had several die before they got that far, and a few die at about the stage most of those are at. So you're past at least one tough point. My growth acceleration in teh humidity chamber was clearly at a penalty of overall survival. Mine are bigger, but I only have 3 out of 10 germinated seeds.

Matt

[richnorm]

Here is an update of 64 I have potted up. Of the 100 that germinated, I still have 84, 1 is lost and 15 went to FL - and of those some got eaten by rats I guess.

Here are two trays of KPs in two totally different mixes.

Thanks for the update Len. We watch with interest what difference the two mixes make. Wish I'd got some of these now.

cheers

Richard

[BS Man about Palms]

Thats really cool Len!

[Tyrone]

Out of the ten seeds I got ten to germinate and grow on well. 8 have opened up spears and the other two have grown on well waiting for the spears to open. Have lost none.

Best regards

Tyrone

[chakoro]

Good news i have 8 out of 10 of my KP`s sending up their first spears.There is not much of a root system yet though just a primary one.Will keep you posted.Craig.

[Bags]

Myself and another palmtalker went in on 10 seeds. I recieved 11 germinated seeds that were put into an unheated tupperware container with straight perlite. As the leaves opened they were left in a green house with the lid off. 10 were potted up today into a light mix and I planted one with a shade tent over it. I now have about 8 very small seedlings of various new cal palms and a few dypsis planted this year. It is going to be interesting to see how they do vs. potted plants.

[Tyrone]

I love the blueish new leaf they get from the first leaf. It almost looks waxy.

Best regards

Tyrone

[chakoro]

I potted mine yesterday into 75 ml tubes into a premium potting mix with added sand to allow better drainage.They sure look beautiful right from a small size.Wish me luck.

Also got one Basselinea pancherii 'Me Ori'sprouted and potted up,it seems to have a purple hue to the first spear as well though the seed is identical to B.pancherii lowland form.Craig.

[Matt in SD]

Craig,

How many 'me ori' seed did you have? I bought 10, but no luck so far. I tried de-lidding a few and the embryos looked good, but I couldn't keep them from rotting.

Matt