Jump to content
  • WELCOME GUEST

    It looks as if you are viewing PalmTalk as an unregistered Guest.

    Please consider registering so as to take better advantage of our vast knowledge base and friendly community.  By registering you will gain access to many features - among them are our powerful Search feature, the ability to Private Message other Users, and be able to post and/or answer questions from all over the world. It is completely free, no “catches,” and you will have complete control over how you wish to use this site.

    PalmTalk is sponsored by the International Palm Society. - an organization dedicated to learning everything about and enjoying palm trees (and their companion plants) while conserving endangered palm species and habitat worldwide. Please take the time to know us all better and register.

    guest Renda04.jpg

Are palms "invasive species"?


Recommended Posts

Posted

I have just come back tired from a long week. Today we concluded the 3rd Biennial Conference of the International Biogeography Society, held here in Tenerife. 300 scientists joined and many questions were related to invasive species. I think we talked so much about this issue that I could almost "write a book" about this but... my official opinion about invasive species (today) is:

We are witnessing the best moment of history to watch and understand biological invasions, which are the best way we know to understand how ecosystems are perturbed, transformed, destroyed or created.

Bioglobalization is unstoppable. Therefore it is not a fight to struggle. They will just happen. Now it is not like a few years ago... it is "exponential", because Indian wasps can come from Florida, African shrubs could invade us from the Australia, etc. It is all over and growing. Diseases and disorders are raining like a storm. It is impossible to close the customs, it is impossible to erradicate most invaders. The only way to put a brake or mitigate invasive species is to keep the natives "in shape". So reforestation with natives, whatever they are, is the only known solution. Empty land and disturbed ecosystems are the welcoming doors for the invaders. I would put priority in putting an eye on national parks, protected areas and conserved environments in general. Human diseases are of main concern: they are spreading more and more, often thanks to the spread of vectors such as the "new" mosquitos in the genus Aedes that spread malaria... yellow fever... dengue.... etc.

Here in the Canary Islands Washingtonia robusta is becoming weedy, and will possibly invade the ravines of our southern slopes of the islands. Livistona decora, maybe some pritchardias or other species could join at any moment. Fig wasps are arriving one by one, and our old beloved street trees are starting to fruit and escape. We only lack a hummingbird to pollinate strelitzias and spathodeas and the big game of life will start also here.

Carlo, Tenerife

Posted

Interesting comments and info in those last posts by Dave-Vero and Carlo.  I get the impression you both have some knowledge about ecosystems that goes beyond just a hobby interest.  Do you work as researchers or scientists in this subject area?

Carlo, I sense that you are right.  On the other hand, perhaps some ecosystems may not be "saturated" and may still have room to host many more species?  For example, if Washingtonia robusta starts populating the valleys of the Canary Islands, does that threaten the survival of the Canary Island date palm, or will the two species simply grow side by side without harming eachother?

Why not live in the tropics?

Posted

Eric,

I am at the Department of Ecology at the University of La Laguna, in Tenerife. We have a Research Group of Invasive Species. But I am not a member – I am in the Research Group of Island Ecology and I am also working on Forest Dynamics (of Palms, as you can guess). I also work as an autonomous professional as a landscape designer, mostly for public parks and roads, where I focus on natives, but often “adopt” choicy or needed exotics. So I am the one who spends a lot of time in gardens and spots the invaders… then my friends come and study them.

As for the question on Phoenix-Washingtonia, a palm is not necessarily the competitor of another palm. Rather think that a tree palm can compete with a tree and a shrubby palm will compete with a shrub. Think also of the network of pollinators-dispersers, and climate-soil requirements. Even if Washingtonia and Phoenix are both trees specialized in using underground water, I don’t think these two palm will compete directly. One Washingtonia needs much less water than one Phoenix (think of leaf surface or crown size) and does better only in the dry sunny southern coast. It is hard to say. Pressure on the native Phoenix may come from unexpected sources, such as the newly introduced beetle Rhyncophorus ferrugineus or the spreading strangling figs such as Ficus microcarpa or F.australis that match climate and soil requirements of some wet locations and can easily germinate on trunk fibers. Maybe Washingtonia will play pressure on the native tamarisks (Tamarix) or the endemic balos (Plocama pendula) in the lower parts of the coastal ravines? This is just speculation… I will tell you in ten years  :(

Carlo

Posted

Eric,

I'm a botanist with a federal government agency.  Most of my experience is with Florida, but I've helped our office in Honolulu from afar.

Fla. climate center: 100-119 days>85 F
USDA 1990 hardiness zone 9B
Current USDA hardiness zone 10a
4 km inland from Indian River; 27º N (equivalent to Brisbane)

Central Orlando's urban heat island may be warmer than us

Posted

Thanks, guys, I think I would enjoy talking to both of you about the issues you study and work with.  Sometimes I feel like the University of Hawaii is surprisingly lacking in faculty who look at things at an ecosystem level.  We don't even have a department of ecology, and the only major in ecology comes as a supplemental certificate to other degrees.  I have two major research interests:  (1) How palms respond to routine pruning (as well as human reasons and rationales for pruning palms), and (2) Tropical forest ecology and forestry (especially native vs. exotic forest in Hawaii).  I've already done some research on the first topic, and I'm taking a class this spring on the second.  I know I can get a degree in the second field, but the first is hard to tie to a specific department (Tropical Horticulture, for example, focuses mainly on farming, and I'm not that interested in agriculture).

Maybe it's time for me to start looking at programs in other places.  Maybe I should be checking out the University of Florida.  Hawaii is complicated.

Why not live in the tropics?

Posted

Eric,

The US Geological Survey does ecological research on Maui.  The US Fish and Wildlife Service has its Pacific office in Honolulu.  No research, but considerable expertise in conservation issues.  Maybe you could arrange a lunchtime visit.  

The University of Florida is a vast enterprise with a strong Institute of Food and Agricultural Sciences (IFAS).  Florida International University in Miami (a public university) has a lot of funding for Everglades studies, and they have wonderful faculty working in Florida and the tropics.  

The Florida university system's rapid growth means that schools without big-name reputations may have excellent faculty.

IFAS horticulturists have long advised against heavy pruning of palms, to little or no effect.  The mistreatment of Sabal palmetto seems to have a lot to do with perceptions that the boots are full of roaches, allied with a desire for things to look tidy.  Perhaps even worse is the stripping of native ferns, bromeliads, and orchids from live oaks in the apparent belief that they're harmful to the trees.

Fla. climate center: 100-119 days>85 F
USDA 1990 hardiness zone 9B
Current USDA hardiness zone 10a
4 km inland from Indian River; 27º N (equivalent to Brisbane)

Central Orlando's urban heat island may be warmer than us

Posted

I know Hawaii needs a department of Ecology. We collaborate with various researchers in Hawaii and I know they are scattered in various centers and departments, with no promised land to reach. We in La Laguna are the only department of Ecology in the Canary Islands. And there's just too much ecology here to fit in one department. Send me a PM to continue the talk then, so we don't flood this thread with a conversation that smells like work.

So let's go back to the start... in order to resurrect this topic we need a picture! Eric, in the first post of this thread you promised a picture of an unidentified species.

The topic of palms colonizing new territories is very interesting. Science fiction is now. Just think that in the XXI century, palms grow wild in Switzerland: Trachycarpus fortunei invaded several native forests of the Canton Tessin in southern Switzerland and the Swiss palm groves are being studied by local ecologists. This is now, not in the future. The wild palms of the Alps are shown on the TV as a symbol of climatic change.

I wish to know more and more stories on palms colonizing new territories. Which are the ones in your area? Where is the tropical crew? Kris? Gileno?

I wish to know where has P.canariensis spread and established populations.

Carlo

Posted

Carlo,

I will start looking more closely around here for exotic invasive palms.  But, I have not really noticed any yet.  One species that you would think would escape to the wild would be Roystonea.  They are planted all over the place in all towns I have been to.  Aside from Aerca palms there are not a lot of exotics in cultivation as well in this area.  Most people plant Bactris gasipaes and Euterpes and Roystonea.  Only now are more exotic species being introduced in Manaus.  Maybe one thing is that the native vegetation is so agressive in disturbed areas that it suppresses invaders.  And, most disturbed areas around here are close to areas of native vegetation.  Normally these areas are only up to 500 meters from the river banks or roadsides.  Not that there are no invasive plants around, that I am sure there are.  I am going to see if I can find someone at INPA (Instituto Nacional de Pesquisa da Amazonia) who might know more about this subject.

dk

Don Kittelson

 

LIFE ON THE RIO NEGRO

03° 06' 07'' South 60° 01' 30'' West

Altitude 92 Meters / 308 feet above sea level

1,500 kms / 932 miles to the mouth of the Amazon River

 

Manaus, Amazonas, Brazil - A Cidade da Floresta

Where the world´s largest Tropical Rainforest embraces the Greatest Rivers in the World. .

82331.gif

 

Click here to visit Amazonas

amazonas2.jpg

Posted

Eric,

I'm interested in your observations / conclusions wrt

pruning of palms. The environment here (which includes

tradewinds, but no hurricanes...touch woody trunk of

your favorite palm;) dictates a more severe pruning

regimen than normally desirable, especially with the large

Caryotas. I've found that C.no, C. himalayana, and other

larger varieties grow big, sail-like leaves faster than

the root system and trunk can provide support to them

against the prevailing winds. So, they get the 'shaving

brush' treatment for a while. I was trying to mulch with

various composted organic materials to help build support,

but that only encouraged the 'free range' chickens to

scratch around even more. I've since learned that plain

cinder makes a great top dressing for building roots, the

chickens don't fool with it, but palm roots love it.

As a side note, I have a theory that cocos like to lean into

the wind, leading to those curved trunks. By contrast,

Caryotas, Archontophoenix, and many other palms, seem

to want to grow straight up regardless of wind conditions.

Livistona seems to lean a bit into the trades as well.

We have the naturalized A. alexandrae, which I would

classify as mildly-annoying, rather than invasive. They are

certainly not as bad as the cane / elephant / bamboo

grasses, koa haole (leadwood), catclaw (mimosa pigra),

Christmas berry, castor bean, morning glory, and whatever

that other most obnoxious creeper is that I have to deal

with. No qualms at all about drenching those with roundup.

Some of these invasives have the possibly redeeming

quality of being nitrogen fixers, but I understand that

there is some requirement to inoculate the plant with the

right micro-organism(s) to get this 'feature' to work. I don't

know about all that, so the above get the chainsaw or

roundup treatment as appropriate.

Now, when the C. rendas naturalize, in about a thousand

years (as one post mentioned), we'll have some real

benefit. ;)

aloha,

Posted

Carlo, I can tell you that P. canariensis does reproduce itself a little bit where my parents live on the coast of Los Angeles County in Southern California (particularly Pacific Palisades and Malibu).  I'll send you a PM soon to contine our discussion on other topics.

Don, I suspect you are right that it's the "saturation" of the Amazon region that holds invaders at bay.  It is surprising that royal palm doesn't spread into Brazilian forests (I also don't recall seeing it  naturalized when I lived in the Rio area).

Tom, I think you must live in Hawaii from what you are saying.  Well, I do too, so maybe we are neighbors!  What island are you on?  As far as pruning palms, obviously coconut can handle the tradewinds, but I didn't know that about the Caryotas.  Interesting.  Well, there is some research that suggests that pruning can actually make palms more susceptible to the effects of winds.  Tomlinson (1990), if I recall correctly, wrote about how the interlocking of palm frond bases and the structure of palm crowns made them especially adapted to withstanding wind stress (this of course is very likely to depend on species).  Chan and Duckett (1978?) and Calvez (1976) observed that oil palms without a full crown of fronds broke in storm winds more often than upruned specimens.  T.K. Broschat from U of Florida has told me that recent Florida hurricanes did more damage to pruned palms than unpruned ones (this was casual observation).

Pruning palms, when not necessary, is not advised for multiple reasons, as you may already be aware (spread of pathogens through leaf scars, loss of photosynthetic surface area, decrease of resistence to physical stress (as just pointed out above), etc.).

Tom, these aggressive alien weeds you describe in Hawaii are certainly annoying to the gardner or the farmer, but it's exactly that type of wild growth that I feel cannot be and probably should not be attempted to be controlled.  If we control or even erradicate one species, another will quickly take its place.  It's just the reality of Hawaii's lowlands today, which I just don't see any way that they could ever go back to being native again.  I think Hawaii has an emotional attachment to a past that doesn't jibe with the reality of the present.  I think it's time to come to accept and appreciate our newly evolving exotic lowland forests and plant communities.  Am I crazy?

Why not live in the tropics?

Posted

http://www.hear.org/starr/hiplants/reports...orella_faya.htm

The nitrogen-fixing Morella faya (or Myrica faya) from the Canary Islands has become a pest in Hawaii.

John Dowe (Queensland) is working on wind resistance in palms.  While visiting at the Montgomery Botanical Center in Miami, he gave several talks.  Looks like some of the Sabal and Livistona species are very resistant.  Crownshaft palms are generally less resistant.  No info on pruning, but it can scarcely help a Sabal.  could Crownshaft species perhaps be a diffent matter?  I dunno.

Fla. climate center: 100-119 days>85 F
USDA 1990 hardiness zone 9B
Current USDA hardiness zone 10a
4 km inland from Indian River; 27º N (equivalent to Brisbane)

Central Orlando's urban heat island may be warmer than us

Posted

I was told by Ray Baker the palm guy at Lyon Arboretum that the Phoenix palms along the north and east shores is some kind of hybred.  He wasn't sure of what though.  I have tasted the dates and they ain't nuttin' to write home about.  Very little meat and lots of nut.

Wai`anae Steve-------www.waianaecrider.com
Living in Paradise, Leeward O`ahu, Hawai`i, USA
Temperature range yearly from say 95 to 62 degrees F
Only 3 hurricanes in the past 51 years and no damage. No floods where I am, No tornados, No earthquakes
No moles, squirrels, chipmunks, deer, etc. Just the neighbors "wild" chickens

Posted

(amazondk @ Jan. 13 2007,06:50)

QUOTE
Eric,

92 percent of Brazil is above the line of the Tropic of Capricorn.  I just read that in something I was reading about Brazilian climates and thought it was interesting.  The big difference with the coast of Southern Brazil and the coast of Florida is that it has a cold water current coming from Antarctica running along it quite far to the north.  The water even in the state of Espirito Santo, north of Rio, is quite cool.  It is relatively common to have penguins wash up on beaches in Rio de Janeiro as well.  

I posted this map on a weather thread, I thought it was interesting.  It shows the climate hardiness zones in South America.  You should be able to see where coconuts will grow here. I am not sure really how far that would be since I have never been to the beaches in the south of the country.   Since South America is an important source of plant species I thought it was relevant.  The zone lines may not be accurate, but I think they are close.

dk

sazones.jpg

There is a ´9b´ on the state Santa Catarina that is located south from here and reaches the city of Curitiba.    The minimum temp. of the city of Caçador in SC was once -14`C.The west of Santa Catarina is maybe 9b like the west of my state Paraná but not the central tableland!

  I can see on this map that I have a 10a climate!!!! :)(Carambeí is located 19 km north of Ponta Grossa),what exactly means this 10a? ...... In neighbour county temps was near -10`C,so i think this isn´t 10a ...... :( :( !!!

Carambeí, 2nd tableland of the State Paraná , south Brazil.

Alt:1030m. Native palms: Queen, B. eriospatha, B. microspadix, Allagoptera leucocalyx , A.campestris, Geonoma schottiana, Trithrinax acanthocoma. Subtr. climate, some frosty nights. No dry season. August: driest month. Rain:1700mm

 

I am seeking for cold hardy palms!

Posted

QUOTE Eric Hawaii

 .....``Interesting how many of Florida's native trees are decidedly tropical and also native to areas of the Caribbean much closer to the equator.  I think south Florida's climate may be more tropical than one might expect for its latitude.  Perhaps this is due to the exceptionally warm ocean there?  Alberto may be able to confirm or deny my assumption that the same latitude (25 to 27 degrees) in southern Brazil borders much cooler ocean temps, and I suspect that part of Brazil can't grow coconuts as well as the same latitude in Florida.  Alberto?

                                                                                                                                                                     There are ´´cultivated´´ cocos nucifera at the beaches in south Brazil. They look good and healthy in my eyes. the size of the cocos are maybe a little smaller....

   This is my vieuw of the beach of Guaratuba where I am spending my vacation at this moment:

(coconuts and one king palm)

post-465-1169154083_thumb.jpg

Carambeí, 2nd tableland of the State Paraná , south Brazil.

Alt:1030m. Native palms: Queen, B. eriospatha, B. microspadix, Allagoptera leucocalyx , A.campestris, Geonoma schottiana, Trithrinax acanthocoma. Subtr. climate, some frosty nights. No dry season. August: driest month. Rain:1700mm

 

I am seeking for cold hardy palms!

Posted

Alberto, what's the latitude there at Guaratuba?  Do coconut palms grow nicely in other parts of the city?  You know, an interesting thing about coconut palms in Brazil is that when I lived in Rio, I thought the coconut palms did not look very healthy in many places.  I assumed it was because it got too cold in the winter, but now I know that could not have been the problem.  Even though Rio is just barely above the tropic of Capricorn and the winter low temp can get down to the upper 50's on some nights, it is still generally warm enough to have perfectly healthy and beautiful coconut palms.  On recollection, I think the problem was disease or poor soil in certain areas.  Because if you go to the Angra dos Reis islands, which are a little bit south of Rio, there are big beautiful robust coconut palms growing wild where the rainforest meets the beach.

Why not live in the tropics?

Posted

Alberto,

I don't think that map I found is an exact representation of zones in South America.  I doubt if it takes into account some of the higher areas in the mountains of the south.  From what I understand of the climate zones it is based on the lowest average temperatures.  Find a USDA climate map on google, and you should get the temperatures.  You get freezes in many of the high points in the moutains of Sao Paulo, Rio, and Minas Gerais.  I have seen it as cold as 3 C in Sao Paulo.  But, all this being said freezes are very rare in almost all of Brazil.  So, much so that people travel to Santa Catarina every year just to see ice, and maybe some snow.  I saw all of that I need to when growing up so I never had much of attraction to do this.  One of my least favorite activities was cleaning the snow off of the sidewalks. But, then skiing was one of my favorite.

dk

Don Kittelson

 

LIFE ON THE RIO NEGRO

03° 06' 07'' South 60° 01' 30'' West

Altitude 92 Meters / 308 feet above sea level

1,500 kms / 932 miles to the mouth of the Amazon River

 

Manaus, Amazonas, Brazil - A Cidade da Floresta

Where the world´s largest Tropical Rainforest embraces the Greatest Rivers in the World. .

82331.gif

 

Click here to visit Amazonas

amazonas2.jpg

Posted

(Eric Hawaii @ Jan. 19 2007,02:39)

QUOTE
Alberto, what's the latitude there at Guaratuba?  Do coconut palms grow nicely in other parts of the city?  You know, an interesting thing about coconut palms in Brazil is that when I lived in Rio, I thought the coconut palms did not look very healthy in many places.  I assumed it was because it got too cold in the winter, but now I know that could not have been the problem.  Even though Rio is just barely above the tropic of Capricorn and the winter low temp can get down to the upper 50's on some nights, it is still generally warm enough to have perfectly healthy and beautiful coconut palms.  On recollection, I think the problem was disease or poor soil in certain areas.  Because if you go to the Angra dos Reis islands, which are a little bit south of Rio, there are big beautiful robust coconut palms growing wild where the rainforest meets the beach.

Eric,

I think one of the reasons the city palms do not look too good is care and upkeep by the city.  They don't tend to get fertilized as far as I know.  That does not mean that the palms out of the city get regular care either, but I think they have less stress on them at any rate.

dk

Don Kittelson

 

LIFE ON THE RIO NEGRO

03° 06' 07'' South 60° 01' 30'' West

Altitude 92 Meters / 308 feet above sea level

1,500 kms / 932 miles to the mouth of the Amazon River

 

Manaus, Amazonas, Brazil - A Cidade da Floresta

Where the world´s largest Tropical Rainforest embraces the Greatest Rivers in the World. .

82331.gif

 

Click here to visit Amazonas

amazonas2.jpg

Posted

Guaratuba is located :

Latitude - 25° 52' Longitude - 48° 34'

 

  Compared to Rio de Janeiro ,in winter it is colder but frostfree.

  All the palms look Ok in the city.

Carambeí, 2nd tableland of the State Paraná , south Brazil.

Alt:1030m. Native palms: Queen, B. eriospatha, B. microspadix, Allagoptera leucocalyx , A.campestris, Geonoma schottiana, Trithrinax acanthocoma. Subtr. climate, some frosty nights. No dry season. August: driest month. Rain:1700mm

 

I am seeking for cold hardy palms!

Posted

Eric,

I' ll be a bit technical about "saturation", but I will try to be brief.

About the concept of Ecosystem Saturation: Dov Sax, from the Univ.of Georgia is one of the mainstream researchers working on that. He has just presented a poster,  with S.Gaines of The Univ. of S.Barbara (CA), in the Biennial of the Int.Biogeographical Soc. held here in Tenerife a few days ago:

"Ecological Saturation on Oceanic Islands: Is ther 'room' for more plants?"

Conclusions said: " Probabilty of establishment of exotic species does not appear to be decreasing dramatically (...) 1) there is 'room' for many more plant species on these islands, 2)many exotics will continue to become established in the next century, 3) few native plant species will be pushed towards extinction in the near-term"

So we are still far from saturation (if such a thing exists). I believe that "disharmony", rather than "saturation" is the key term to predict future invasions: in what are we still disharmonic to the rest of the world? what are the lacking lineages?

Tom,

Interesting observations of Trade Winds vs. Hurricanes. Like in Hawaii, here we have the cool ever-bothering trade winds but no Hurricans. I also liked your comments about free ranging chicken and their taste for cinder vs. mulching. I have had the same problem last year with 70 feral chicken eating my palms (attracted by mulching). We eventually ate most of them (not the palms, I mean), but they are breeding again.

Eric again,  About palm pruning:

There is a new thick book abouth this subject, in Spanish or Italian, released in Spring 2006 which is obviously unknown in the English-speaking world: La potatura delle palme ornamentali - La poda de las palmeras ornamentales, not scientific but quite technical, loaded with pictures. By Littardi, Moya and Plumed. 180 pages. Give a look:

http://www.aearboricultura.com/comentariolibros.htm

http://www.agricolajerez.com/web....set=200

Dave,

Myrica faya (or Morella? which is the right one?) is our native nitrogen-fixing tree. "He" is the one who is defending our ravines against the wild attack of introduced Acacia spp.

It was surrealistic to see it wild on the Big Island.

Waianae Steve,

Maybe we can cut once and for all the questions about the wild Phoenix cf. sylvestris in Oahu. I think we can "do DNA" at this time of history. I will ask Ray to send some samples, we have people at the Univ. in Gran Canaria doing genetics on Phoenix and we might get the analysis for free.

Carlo, Tenerife

Posted

Great, Carlo!  That was a very nice and useful reply from you!  Dov Sax sounds very familiar as someone I have seen here at University of Hawaii.  I thought he was working here in the botany department, is that possible?  This concept of "saturation" is very interesting.  I put the word in quotation marks because I don't yet understand much about it, but I suspect that it's just a hypothetical condition.  The book you linked to sounds interesting, and fortunately I am able to read Spanish!  From the summaries on those links, it is not clear how much the book might deal with the effects of pruning on palm health, but it would be interesting to get a copy of the book!

I'm sorry i did not send you a PM yet; I'll do that now.

Why not live in the tropics?

Posted

"Saturation" exists, but "equilibrium" does not, as living beings are never as perfect as our schemes. Also some people can't get "saturated" with food or sex and most ecosystem will always have room for 1 more species... and 1 species will always invite more friends.

The book in Spanish is very practical and chiefly deals with knives, gardens and mantainance, but it is so thick (180 pages) and so good (decades of experience comparing so many species), that it is a must reference to start a research.

And back to topic: One of the main weeds in the rainforest areas of Lyon Arboretum in Oahu is Ptychosperma microcarpum, that needs just a few years to get a few meters tall. They call volunteers to chop them and spray with herbicide as it continuously invade their plantings of Pinanga spp. and Geonoma spp.

Carlo

Posted

(Carlo Morici @ Jan. 20 2007,07:30)

QUOTE
"Saturation" exists, but "equilibrium" does not, as living beings are never as perfect as our schemes. Also some people can't get "saturated" with food or sex and most ecosystem will always have room for 1 more species... and 1 species will always invite more friends.

Carlo and other folks:

I've been reading carefully this thread and learning a lot from everyone's posts.

Here in Northeastern Brazil the main ecologic concearns are always targeted in protecting the remnants of the Atlantic coastal forest, originally covering the strip of land around 150 km adjoining the eastern coastline. This rich and highly diversified ecosystem coincides with the greatest precipitation climatic zone, above 1500 mm/year, usually also with deepest rich soils available and thus heavily exploited for agricultural purposes along the centuries. Introduction of exotic species has been somewhat limited in terms of quantity of species since the monoculture pattern (sugarcane, pasture, coconut, banana, tobacco, cotton, fruits...) has prevailed in soil ocupations and the bordering "leftover" parts of this "first class" climatic zone are still covered with pretty dense forest, now legally preserved.

I'm not a botanist but for what I've seen and read around here, no exotic palms have yet been considered an ecological threat to the existing parts of the original forest. The humans, with their blowtorches and chainsaws are probably THE big problems to face, not invasive species for themselves yet...

The largest portion of the brazilian northeastern territory, an area about the size of France, inland away from the coast, is located in a tropical semi-arid climatic zone, considered a type US zone 12 with less than 800 mm and not regularly distributed annual precipitation, in high evaporation, where sparse "caatinga" vegetation prevails, and where introduction of new species is always limited and associated with controlled irrigation farming techniques, and so unlikely to escape and impose harm to a much less exuberant native flora, eventually submitted to cyclic droughts and fewer dispersive factors. In this area, the objective is to replant native flora along the existing water courses (destroyed for logging) and rationally employ the small water resources in irrigation projects, considering the high productivity possible. In that dry region they are now managing to harvest two and a half merlot grapes irrigated crops per year and also cotrolling the climate to produce huge continuous quantities of offseason mangoes, melons, etc, for the european and Japanese markets, with no competition from either our coast, Asia or Central America with their definite and predictable rainy seasons and monsoons.

I'll try to do some research about introduced palms in my region...I wouldn't dare to consider that monocot ornamental species are not yet seen uncontrolled in the wild...or even disturbing systems in "equilibrium".  African oil palms are seen with higher frequency in remote places of our countryside but always associated with human settlements and intentional cultivation...Cocos nucifera? Well..., isn't it a native species?  :)

post-157-1169438483_thumb.jpg

Sirinhaém beach, 80 Km south of Recife - Brazil

Tropical oceanic climate, latitude 8° S

Temperature extremes: 25 to 31°C

2000 mm average rainfall, dry summers

Posted

Well, Gileno, that's the big question, isn't it?  Is Cocos nucifera native to Brazil (or to any part of the neotropics for that matter)?  I have heard that Cocos was not seen in the Americas until after Europeans started to go there, but I think I heard another report saying the opposite.  I would imagine that if Cocos was really pan-tropical, then we should see more species of Cocos because a lot of evolution would have take place over time as it got separated into different isolated populations throughout the globe.

Why not live in the tropics?

Posted

Gileno,

Great explanation of your area.  I have one observation though. I agree that deforestation along watercourses (or anywhere for that matter) is a big problem all over Brazil, but I don't think that the conversion of forest to other uses in these areas has much to do with logging.  Cutting down trees is a consequence of occupation for other activities, principally agriculture and cattle ranching.  There is a big legal problem in Brazil around this issue regarding how to handle lands which are irregular in this respect.  The Federal Environmental Code is quite clear as to what is considered zones of Perpetual Protection on watercourses.  The area along stream beds can not be converted from native vegetation from 30 to 500 meters from the water level depending on the size of the river or stream.  In addition the owner of a property, whether they cleared the land or it was that way when they purchased it are liable for damages and fines to the federal government.  Environmental liablities are passed on to whoever purhases land. This fine is 1450 Reais (about 700 USD) per hectare.  Here in our area it is a common practice for riverside residents (mostly small farmers) to clear land down to the river bank.  I have a friend who got fined over 100,000 USD by IBAMA (the federal environmental agency) for land converted from forest in this zone on a ranch they have and they had bought it that way.  From what my forest engineer tells me this is a big problem nationwide and the government has yet to come up with a solution on how to deal with it.  Well, this doesn't have much to do with invasive palm species, except that if they were to occur they would probably occur in this type of environment.  I also believe there was a lot more contact between pre colombian america and the South Pacific than what is commonly thought.  And, due to the high population density in Amazonia and trade routes within the region at the time it could be very possible that coconuts could be dispersed by humans in either direction.  I think I read somewhere that the Spanish encountered coconuts upon contact with the natives in the northwestern corner of Colombia.  

dk

Don Kittelson

 

LIFE ON THE RIO NEGRO

03° 06' 07'' South 60° 01' 30'' West

Altitude 92 Meters / 308 feet above sea level

1,500 kms / 932 miles to the mouth of the Amazon River

 

Manaus, Amazonas, Brazil - A Cidade da Floresta

Where the world´s largest Tropical Rainforest embraces the Greatest Rivers in the World. .

82331.gif

 

Click here to visit Amazonas

amazonas2.jpg

Posted

Carlo,

They've been using "Morella" in Hawaii, but I checked the Flora of North America forMyrtaceae and it turns out to be a question of whether Morella should be recognized as a subgenus or full genus.  

There's an English-language book,  

"With Broadax and Firebrand: The Destruction of the Brazilian Atlantic Forest" by Warren Dean from University of California Press.  Apparently the destruction started quite early.  One American researcher who's worked in the forest is Wayt Thomas of the NY Botanical Garden.  

Coconut palm is definitely not native in Florida.  There was pre-European cross-Pacific transport of at least one economically valuable plant, the sweet potato.  It came from somewhere on the Pacific coast from Central America to Peru.

Fla. climate center: 100-119 days>85 F
USDA 1990 hardiness zone 9B
Current USDA hardiness zone 10a
4 km inland from Indian River; 27º N (equivalent to Brisbane)

Central Orlando's urban heat island may be warmer than us

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now



  • Recently Browsing

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...