La Conchita, California - could it be a "holy grail" area for Cocos nucifera ???

[paulgila]

I can't tell you how many times I've had to scrap ice off my surf board when dawn patolling Rincon Point about a mile north of La Conchita!

Some of you guys really need to get a grip on reality, California will never be subtropic or anything close...Sorry

good call,bob. this whole thing took the socal coconut debate WAY too far.

[Takil-Explorer]

Well you can still grow bananas comercially where its to cold for coconuts. For example Israel grows bananas. And also in tropical highlands you can find them where they do not grow coconuts. South Africa also has bana farms in areas where you do not see any coconutpalms. And it depends also on the variety of banana.

Alexander

[JEFF IN MODESTO]

Some bananas will fruit in ILLINOIS!

I really doubt is unless they have a really mild winter.... or the plants are protected during winter

.

Even the hardiest bananas are pretty much limited to areas where the ground dont freeze or see temps below 22f.

Basically, if you can grow Oranges, you should be able to grow bananas.... If you can commercially grow oranges, then so too you should be able to grow Bananas commercially.

I doubt I would have much of a problem here in Modesto.... If land prices werent so high.

Least thats my 30 years experiance growing them.

Jeff

[JEFF IN MODESTO]

How 'bout mangoes, breadfruit & mangosteen. must be lilliputian meccas for those annoyingly tender fruits also.

Should be easy to find cocoanuts there, as they're relatively tall plants.

Good exploratory mission. Keep us posted!

PD

Mangoes are subtropical.... sensitive to sub freezing temps... but I grew one here in the SJ valley for about 8 years. It got nipped a little in winter, still produced fruits.

Mangosteen is Strictly tropical, dies if chilled,

I also had a nice Breadfruit for years.... it grew well as an indoor/ outdoor plant. Temps below 50f fry the leaves, otherwise doesnt mind a little chilly weather.

I kept mine indoors under a shop light for the 3 coldest months of the year.

Jeff

[JEFF IN MODESTO]

California, North and south are in sub tropical Climate.

See the link.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subtropics

[Gonzer]

Some of you guys really need to get a grip on reality, California will never be subtropic or anything close...Sorry

My sentiments exactly Bob. Me? I'd much rather grow plants that are compatible to where I live instead banging my head on walls and dreaming "Oh, what if, what if?". These California coconut threads are getting a wee bit redundant.

[amazon exotics]

I that that if Coco's could be grown there they would be growing there now. IMO, after the last two winter's we had here in Fl. and the hit the Coco's took, I would say theres no way they would live in Cali. It's not just about low temps,Cocos need a long duration of heat also.

[amazon exotics]

I can't tell you how many times I've had to scrap ice off my surf board when dawn patolling Rincon Point about a mile north of La Conchita!

Some of you guys really need to get a grip on reality, California will never be subtropic or anything close...Sorry

Hey POGO...It's called "yawn patrol"

[George Sparkman]

There sure is a lot of energy going into this topic.

I have yet to see a coconut palm get past the "conversation piece" stage in California and actually look good.

Happy growing ,

George Sparkman

Cycads-n-Palms.com

[Jim in Los Altos]

California, North and south are in sub tropical Climate.

See the link.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subtropics

Yes, most of CA is considered subtropical. I would classify Cocos as tropical not subtropical palms and a good reason they struggle anywhere in CA and even have their tough times in South FL.

[Walter John]

California, North and south are in sub tropical Climate.

See the link.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subtropics

Yes, most of CA is considered subtropical. I would classify Cocos as tropical not subtropical palms and a good reason they struggle anywhere in CA and even have their tough times in South FL.

Over here in my sub tropical climate, many tropical plants grow without actually struggling, including Cocos nucifera, maybe slower, but still reaching a potential.

[BS Man about Palms]

Some of you guys really need to get a grip on reality, California will never be subtropic or anything close...Sorry

My sentiments exactly Bob. Me? I'd much rather grow plants that are compatible to where I live instead banging my head on walls and dreaming "Oh, what if, what if?". These California coconut threads are getting a wee bit redundant.

[Rusty on Pine Is.]

Aw Gosh, hate to knock heads with the eternally optimistic, but the fact is this.......

........at somewhere around 53-56 degrees Fahrenheit, a coconut ceases to produce carbohydrate......being an autotroph, it can only live productively under the conditions that enable it to make enough 'food' in order to live, grow, and reproduce...

..and like it or not, it only takes two to three weeks at below optimal conditions for Genus Cocos to cark it.....

Tropical, sub-topical, temperate, or zone whatever doesn't mean squat:

Keep it above 53F for the right amount of time and CONGRATULATIONS!!!!

...anything less, and you will have expensive compost.....

Rusty

[avb]

I think Bob is right. Never going to happen. I've been to the same surf spots and had the sand crunch under my feet from being frozen in mid-winter. You might get a Cocos to survive for a short time, but it would eventually succumb to low temps.

I also remember the banana guys in La Conchita using blue plastic bags to cover their fruit and remember thinking it must be to protect it from the cold.

One of my classmates from elementary school had bananas growing in her front yard in Santa Maria that produced fruit most years. It never got ripe enough to eat.

[Brian Bruning]

There is a fairly large Coconut palm in Huntington Beach. I talk with the guy and have some pics somewhere. He didn't know a coconut won't grow in coasta Ca. As well there are stories I've heard from Greg Haines that there were some near the Salton Sea. The owner rented the house out and the tenants didn't water anything so they died. I think if one were to obtain seed in Guaymas Sonora or other end of the line coconuts there would be a better chance of survival. I've seen four natives species of palm in the Guaymas area. It's worth a visit, see the Club Med or Hotel Mar de Cortez both are nice but I prefere the 1920's Spanish cColonia revival of Mar de Cortez which was built by the Arizona railroad as they used Guaymas as the port for Arizona.

[Brian Bruning]

As far as I know Guaymas is the end of the line for Coconuts. Perhaps there are some at Puerto Penasco but I've not been there. Does anyone know the nothern most groves of coconuts in Mexico? The grove at the Hotel Mar de Cortes is or at least was beautiful but I've not been there for 20 years. On the Baja side I saw many Roystoneas in Santa Rosalia but no coconuts.

[Brian Bruning]

Opps! My bad. That pic is in Salinas CA. Here's the real one with Coconuts along the beach.

http://www.bestday.com.mx/Guaymas-San-Carlos/Hoteles/Playa-de-Cortes/

[Palm crazy]

I've always wonder if Avila Beach along with its warm sunny microclimate would be a good place to try exotic palms. Not really sunny warm Socal but I've always wonder if they have enough heat in winter to try?

[Mandrew968]

i suggest we put together an expedition--sponsored by ths IPS & affiliated groups,of course--& search out this "holy grail area for cocos nucifera."

i nominate myself as intrepid expedition leader.matt will be in charge of logistics & snacks. triode,you will be chief medical officer.

lets roll.

The IPS wouldn't get involved unless there's a good chance of finding some obscure Dypsis that looks just like some 50 other obscure Dypsis.

[Walter John]

superCALIfragilisticEXPEDitiousCOCOS.

I just thought I'd add another post to a thread about not being able to grow Cocos nucifera, meanwhile.....

[LJG]

I can't tell you how many times I've had to scrap ice off my surf board when dawn patolling Rincon Point about a mile north of La Conchita!

Some of you guys really need to get a grip on reality, California will never be subtropic or anything close...Sorry

But what about El Conchito 5 more minutes south?

[MattyB]

Or Las Conchitas?

[trioderob]

ok - now this is bordering on the absurd.

Edited May 16, 2011 by trioderob

[paulgila]

what do you mean "now?"

and what do you mean "bordering?"

[palmsOrl]

I find myself being really surprised at the reports of ice on the beach (especially the sand getting "crunchy"). I knew the beaches (much of coastal Cali) are cool to chilly year-round, but thought that freezing along the coast was rare, too rare for reports of ice by beachgoers on PalmTalk. Are there any recent photos of the Huntington Beach coconut?

-Michael

[JEFF IN MODESTO]

ok - now this is bordering on the absurd.

Now Now Now, I think that If I didnt like a message string, I wouldnt read it nor comment on it.

Peace

[BS Man about Palms]

i suggest we put together an expedition--sponsored by ths IPS & affiliated groups,of course--& search out this "holy grail area for cocos nucifera."

i nominate myself as intrepid expedition leader.matt will be in charge of logistics & snacks. triode,you will be chief medical officer.

lets roll.

The IPS wouldn't get involved unless there's a good chance of finding some obscure Dypsis that looks just like some 50 other obscure Dypsis.

IF ONLY that were true!! ..

[paulgila]

it was snarkasm!

[sur4z]

you're all bananas...has dr. darian tried to grow cocos. i've read his canapy creates 8 microclimates.

[Bae72]

I'm intrigued by this. Some of the comments have been worth a chuckle. A bit of snark makes the day go faster. But on topic (vaguely) the whole sub-tropical/temperate climate thing seems useless. I read one book 'Palms don't grow here and other myths' not so long ago and it talked about places that freeze over and have blizzards as being temperate and when talking about Eucalypts mentioned that most won't grow in these temperate US climates because Australian climate is basically sub-tropical to tropical. I'd say if it freezes and/or you get blizzards, it's alpine or polar.

That just don't make any sense to me. I live in the Melbourne region of Australia, at about 37 south of the equator. It's temperate, but the beach sand doesn't get crispy and snow is such a rarity that kids get all excited and their parents tell them about the last time it snowed in the area 20 years beforehand. We get frosts away from the coast but until you get up in the hills, nothing too bad. So I don't understand how on the sea-side in southern California, which I think is hotter than where I am, and so would seem more subtropical gets frosted sand and all that. I think another Aussie chimed in and said that where s/he lived in southern Queensland (over a thousand kilometers closer to the equator) is sub-tropical and cocos grow nicely.

I guess I'm asking is there a standard where climates can be compared between regions and continents in any meaningful sense? It seems that calling a place temperate only tells you that polar bears will find it a bit warm and coconuts a bit cold. Sub-tropical seems to mean, not quite dripping, stinking hot, but too warm for polar bears.

That probably didn't make any sense. I'm still going to grow coconuts in temperate Melbourne. In a greenhouse most likely, but grow they will!

[tim_brissy_13]

Brian, there are a few different climate zoning systems, however, as you've pointed out, there are so many variables that it is near impossible to base what we can grow on any of these systems. We live in an interesting climate - I've never seen below 2C at my house, yet there are so many subtropical palms we cant grow because there is simply not enough heat year round. Some much more tropical climates will actually get freezes more often than us (Florida for example). By the way I've seen an attempt at growing a coconut outside here, it turned to mush after one month of winter.

[Bae72]

Hi Tim. Yeah, you are near the bay I think, and it won't frost there. I think the biggest problem as you point out is the extended cool bleak winter not freezing temperature.

I live inland a bit, and there are frosts, but not so bad. This morning I was out the back at 4:30am spraying my bananas with water (I read somewhere that the state-change from liquid to ice releases heat and that ice crystals form on the outside of the leaf instead of in the leaf) and lit a small smoky fire to add a bit of warm air to stop the frost settling. It turned out the backyard didn't freeze (2C at lowest), maybe because of my actions or just warmth stored by houses. But nearby in the paddocks the grass was frozen, but it wouldn't have hung about for long.

Edited May 18, 2011 by Bae72

[Takil-Explorer]

Wel plant some Howeas downthere in Melbourne! They are good replacements for coco locos. And dont forget to hang some coconuts into it and a bit of white beachsand to complete the picture ...

Alexander

[Bae72]

Wel plant some Howeas downthere in Melbourne! They are good replacements for coco locos. And dont forget to hang some coconuts into it and a bit of white beachsand to complete the picture ...

Alexander

Got a Kentia in a pot. Got other palms too such as Bangalows, Queen (Cocos) palms and Parlor palms. But you also want to grow the plants that are difficult or unusual otherwise you're just doing what everybody else is doing. Hence: Bananas, Frangipanis, Coconuts, Pineapples and so on....

[Stevetoad]

I had one grow in a green house and it still did poorly and after 4 years it died. Temp was always between 65-95. Maybe it's the shorter days during the winter.

[Bae72]

I had one grow in a green house and it still did poorly and after 4 years it died. Temp was always between 65-95. Maybe it's the shorter days during the winter.

Don't say that! I've got a few palms in the greenhouse. One is over 2 years old and seems to be going OK. It was keep inside a bathroom for the first year under a skylight but always above 20C. Now the temperature fluctuates in the greenhouse ( between 14 - 30C ) daily in winter but it gets more light. I have a palm in a similar pot as the 2 year old. It's the same size and I've only had it 6 months. So I'm hoping the greenhouse will prove enough....Although the days are getting quite short.

[Stevetoad]

Bea72 I wish you luck. I had it in my dads orchid green house and the humidity was always very high. Maybe the constant moisture did it in then again it might have been my amazing horticultural skills.

[paulgila]

i thought cocos grew like weeds in "sane-tea."

it could be another "holy grail" for the aforementioned species.

oh wait,those are washies.

nevermind.

[Stevetoad]

Oh yeah there everywhere out here. I have to where a helmet to keep from getting my head knocked by them. Just couldn't get one to grow in a greenhouse.

[paulgila]

thats yer problem right thar,mr.toad,get that dang coconut outta the green house & let it grow free!