Hardiest Livistona

[tank]

The past couple of winters have put the Livistonas in town and in my yard through their paces.

Here is my take on the hardiest to cold and frost in order:

1. L. nitida (17F no damage/ 14F spear pull, minor leaf damage on older leaves, quickly recovered)

2. L. decora (17F slight damage/ 14F spear pull, substantial damage on older leaves, quickly recovered)

3. L. australis (17F slight damage)

4. L. chinensis (17F substantial leaf damage, spear intact)

These were not under canopy.

L. nitida seems to be the winner for me in the cold hardiness category. Seems to be a good choice in North Florida.

I am also interested in anyone's experience w/Livistona fulva or L. alfredii (not that I have ever had the chance to pick up an L. alfredii). There is a palm at the local botanical garden that is listed as L. alfredii, and it is certainly slow, but I don't think the ID has been confirmed. I'll have to post a pic when I get out there. It has never shown cold damage that I'm aware of.

Some nice references

http://207.210.245.133/ms/observations/show_all/show_species.html?sp=Livistona

http://bizmark.8m.com/custom2.html

[Kailua_Krish]

I agree with the L. nitida. Mine last year had some foliar damage but the spear did not pull. This year I dont think it has any. L. decora all had spear pull both this year and last but the leaves look ok, some of the older ones are gone. Supposed L. marie are totally toast. L. mulleri are planted in a slightly warmer spot and all of the leaves are moderately to severely damaged but it is sending out new leaves even in the dead of winter.

All of these are planted without any canopy.

My L. chiniensis all look perfect but are under heavy canopy. My L. saribus that are in exposed locations have lost all their leaves but the ones under heavy canopy look perfect.

-Krishna

P.S. I think our lows were around 21, but I also think the heavy frost did a lot of damage.

[Trópico]

My slightly protected (covered) L. rigida under no canopy did well with minor foliar damage at a minimum of 23.5°F.

[tank]

Funny how things factor in. Frost, while it won't kill a plant, or cause the spear to pull, will still totally defoliate. We had a major frost morning up here were we "only" saw temps at around 24F. This totally defoliated a Sabal causiarum that saw no damage on a different morning at 17F with no frost. Spear is still green though and appears to have started to push with this warm weather.

[Eric in Orlando]

Back in the big 12/89 freeze (2 nights at 19-20F in Orlando with a high inbetween in the mid 30sF), the only Livistona grown around here were L. chinensis and a few L. australis and L. decora. The L. chinensis had varying amount of damage. Those under tree canopy had none or very minor but others had minor to moderate burn. The few L. australis and L. decora I knew of also had moderate or severe burn but survived. Livistona nitida wasn't cultivated around here back then but I have heard it has good hardiness. A palm collector in Maitland just north of Orlando recorded 17F at his house and lost L. australis but L. chinensis survived.

Back in Feb. 1996 we had a freeze here in Orlando, one night at 26F. I had some young palms in my backyard at the time. It was cold enough to defoliate Acrocomia aculeata and Dypsis decaryi out in the open but L. rigida and L. fulva had moderate burn.

My guess is the hardiest Livistona from reports and observations would be this;

L. nitida

L. chinensis

L. australis

L. decora

L. saribus (green petiole form)

L. mariae

Livistona fulva seems to be in the half hardy group along with others such as L. jenkinsiana, L. speciosa, L. benthamii, L. drudei, L. rigida, L. saribus (maroon petiole form) and L. muelleri. Seems they will show damage below about 26-27F and get killed in the low 20sF.

[Kailua_Krish]

Funny how things factor in. Frost, while it won't kill a plant, or cause the spear to pull, will still totally defoliate. We had a major frost morning up here were we "only" saw temps at around 24F. This totally defoliated a Sabal causiarum that saw no damage on a different morning at 17F with no frost. Spear is still green though and appears to have started to push with this warm weather.

I really think that the frost was the source of most of the damage (in some areas) this winter, rather than absolute lows. Its interesting because my P. bipannatifidum (selluom) in Ocala have similar damage to those in New Tampa in the development I am residing in. I think that would only be possible if frost rather than cold were responsible for the damage as this area is much warmer.

After seeing what happened this winter I am starting to believe Livistona mulleri is cold tolerant to 9a but just doesnt like heavy frost, so perhaps a light canopy would fix this. Overall, other than L. nitida it seems that most of the livistonas arent really big fans of frost.

-Krishna

Edited February 1, 2011 by krishnaraoji88

[Patrick]

L. nitida and L. decora look so similar! how do you tell the two apart?

[Eric in Orlando]

L. nitida and L. decora look so similar! how do you tell the two apart?

L. decora has much more deeply divided leaflets. Younger plants of L. decora also are a darker dull green while L. nitida are a brighter green.

[Patrick]

L. nitida and L. decora look so similar! how do you tell the two apart?

L. decora has much more deeply divided leaflets. Younger plants of L. decora also are a darker dull green while L. nitida are a brighter green.

Ahhhh, thank you, Eric

[gyuseppe]

I have in my garden livistona chinensis,nitida,australis, decora,many winters have passed,never damage from the cold

while is 1 year in the garden for livistona mariae and Livistona rigida , no damage to 28.4F no protection !

I also have these Livistona: drudei,fulva,jenkinsiana,saribus,muelleri,but they are still small,are in protection and are repaired

[AggiePalms]

Same here regarding L. chinensis hardiness. I picked up a couple of pots that were being thrown away by a neighbor 6-8 years ago, they rooted into the ground before I could plant them out, but nonetheless have grown very rapidly. Never any problems at all with frost or freezing temps. Very minor leaf burn on oldest leaves down around 20F; they are next to a street at the edge of a live oak canopy.

How about L. decipiens? I have a 10 gallon I would like to plant out, but no one ever mentions it as a relatively hardy species. Any positive thoughts to help it survive, does it need to stay potted?

[mjff]

Same here regarding L. chinensis hardiness. I picked up a couple of pots that were being thrown away by a neighbor 6-8 years ago, they rooted into the ground before I could plant them out, but nonetheless have grown very rapidly. Never any problems at all with frost or freezing temps. Very minor leaf burn on oldest leaves down around 20F; they are next to a street at the edge of a live oak canopy.

How about L. decipiens? I have a 10 gallon I would like to plant out, but no one ever mentions it as a relatively hardy species. Any positive thoughts to help it survive, does it need to stay potted?

L. decipiens is now L. decora. Mine was defoliated last winter at 12F, but the spear didn't pull, and it quickly bounced back. The tree has about 3' of trunk. We'll see what happens this year. I am supposed to get to 10F tonight, 8F tomorrow night, and 12 F the night after that. The Washingtonias already look bad from the snow and ice last night.

[merrillwx]

Hi, Tank:

I've had most of the Livistonas discussed above; the only spp. to survive [probably 10F] has been L. mariae. Its foliage may not be more freeze-resistance than the others, but its total survival was unique!

Best Wishes,

merrill

[floridagrower]

Exposed chinensis look worse for wear than the robustas of comparable size around here. The ones tucked under trees or by buildings are fine and are disregarded in my observations. The decora is hardier to exposed frosts. Also, my buddy has a Nitida out in the country that's easily the hardiest of the bunch.

[war_eagle]

Same here regarding L. chinensis hardiness. I picked up a couple of pots that were being thrown away by a neighbor 6-8 years ago, they rooted into the ground before I could plant them out, but nonetheless have grown very rapidly. Never any problems at all with frost or freezing temps. Very minor leaf burn on oldest leaves down around 20F; they are next to a street at the edge of a live oak canopy.

How about L. decipiens? I have a 10 gallon I would like to plant out, but no one ever mentions it as a relatively hardy species. Any positive thoughts to help it survive, does it need to stay potted?

I have two doubles and one single L. decora. They were all about 3 feet tall overall last winter. We had 3.5 inches of snow one day in December with a low that night of 26. In January we had 3 consecutive nights in the low 20s, the lowest at 19.8. We also had a very wet, cold Feb. All 5 of mine had spears pull, but fronds remained mostly green. They put on fronds so fast you couldn't tell anything had happened by May. Today they are all over 6 feet tall overall. They are getting hammered again right now by three more nights in the low 20s this week with snow/ice possible on thu/fri. I expect them to be okay.

[tank]

Hi, Tank:

I've had most of the Livistonas discussed above; the only spp. to survive [probably 10F] has been L. mariae. Its foliage may not be more freeze-resistance than the others, but its total survival was unique!

Best Wishes,

merrill

Merrill,

I remember your L. mariae, It is a beautiful tree. You're observations on hardiness are invaluable. Kyle had a L. mariae donated for the plantings at UF. I'll have to check and see how its doing soon.

[Darkman]

Hi, Tank:

I've had most of the Livistonas discussed above; the only spp. to survive [probably 10F] has been L. mariae. Its foliage may not be more freeze-resistance than the others, but its total survival was unique!

Best Wishes,

merrill

That's really good to hear Merrill as I am acquiring a L mariae this weekend. I have only seen it once but I think it is about 9' OA. It my be shorter but it is not a small palm. I will be planting it under a live oak canopy to help protect it from frost. It survived 19 last winter but the frost gets the foilage every year. Hopefully I can get it to survive the transplant.

[Tala]

at 23f w/ icicles hanging off them - no damage to decora, australis, nitida, chinensis, saribus (green form only), rigida, mariae (which could be rigida) - the mariae palms historically do not like wet cold, dry stuff is OK. Those palms all out in open full sun exposure. Next group w/ be drudei, fulva, humilis, lanuginosa, muelleri, inermis, victoriae - jenkinsiana appears to be hardier than speciosa here so far. But they're way behind the others. Also carinensis was kinda disappointing, less hardy than 2nd group, not much tougher than rotundifolia.

[obabylive]

2007 dropped to 29F, Jan 2011 dropped to 29f, Feb 1, 2011 dropped to 30F and windy, tonight forecasting 27f and windy. This is my experiience with Livistonas' in the desert:

Chinensis - approx 10yrs in ground from 5gal, 4' overall height, under canopy, no damage

Marie - approx 12yrs from 5gal, 5' of trunk, no protection, no damage

Jenkinsian - approx 4' of trunk from 5gal, 8yrs in ground under canopy, no damage

Drudgei - 4' overal height, 8yrs from 3gal, no protection, 40% leaf damage and counting

Carnivore Gorge approx 5' of trunk 10yrs from 5gal, no protection, no damage

Saribus - 2' approx 10yrs from 5gal, no protection, 50% leaf burn in 2007, struggling since, no damage from 2011 freezes??????

Occidentalis - 3' from 5gal, 10yrs in ground, canopy, 20% leaf burn 2007, 2011 no damage

My thinking is, " if plants been in ground 10yrs or more, time to let it fend for itself." Wouldn't want to protect it know, only to lose it at maturity when its too large to protect....

[Keith N Tampa (ex SoJax)]

My Livistona observations are:

Livistona sari bus (green) never damaged (have had some damage to seedlings)

Livistona nitida: never damaged (only 1 plant to observe)

Livistona decora: minor bronzing on large tree exposed to very high winds while temps were around 25. 4 others no damage

Livistona chinensis: 1 defoliated most winters, another moderate freeze damage last 2 years

Livistona drudei: defoliated every winter. It recovers by end of summer but looks rough for about 6 months a year.

The lowest last winter was 20-22f depending on siting. Lowest this winter ~25f

Back in the big 12/89 freeze (2 nights at 19-20F in Orlando with a high inbetween in the mid 30sF), the only Livistona grown around here were L. chinensis and a few L. australis and L. decora. The L. chinensis had varying amount of damage. Those under tree canopy had none or very minor but others had minor to moderate burn. The few L. australis and L. decora I knew of also had moderate or severe burn but survived. Livistona nitida wasn't cultivated around here back then but I have heard it has good hardiness. A palm collector in Maitland just north of Orlando recorded 17F at his house and lost L. australis but L. chinensis survived.

Back in Feb. 1996 we had a freeze here in Orlando, one night at 26F. I had some young palms in my backyard at the time. It was cold enough to defoliate Acrocomia aculeata and Dypsis decaryi out in the open but L. rigida and L. fulva had moderate burn.

My guess is the hardiest Livistona from reports and observations would be this;

L. nitida

L. chinensis

L. australis

L. decora

L. saribus (green petiole form)

L. mariae

Livistona fulva seems to be in the half hardy group along with others such as L. jenkinsiana, L. speciosa, L. benthamii, L. drudei, L. rigida, L. saribus (maroon petiole form) and L. muelleri. Seems they will show damage below about 26-27F and get killed in the low 20sF.

[Eric in Orlando]

Livistona woodfordii has shown some suprising hardiness. Its native from SE New Guinea to the Solomon Islands. We have a couple juveniles here about 2-3ft and they weren't damaged last winter or this winter so far.

[sonoranfans]

Great discussion, I will use this to expand my cold hardy palms, especially after the frost burn this winter. I have a chinensis multi and am interested in decora for sure. The others seem somewhat uncommon here, that is a shame.

[tank]

Great discussion, I will use this to expand my cold hardy palms, especially after the frost burn this winter. I have a chinensis multi and am interested in decora for sure. The others seem somewhat uncommon here, that is a shame.

Go to the next CFPACs meeting, there always seems to be a variety of Livistonas at the sale. Or put an APB on the palms wanted section. There are lots of folks down your way that grow these. You should be able to grow most in this genus down in Palmetto.

[tank]

There are also a couple sales coming up in the spring.

[tank]

Apparently I've been trying to grow the wrong L. saribus. I've lost a BUNCH of these to the cold. I don't know if I had the red or the green. It's disappointing as a shade grown saribus is probably my favorite Livistonas.

[Eric in Orlando]

Apparently I've been trying to grow the wrong L. saribus. I've lost a BUNCH of these to the cold. I don't know if I had the red or the green. It's disappointing as a shade grown saribus is probably my favorite Livistonas.

The green are much hardier than the maroon petiole form. The maroon will burn around 26-27F

[Eric in Orlando]

Another one of our L. woodfordii, just took the photo today. No damage this winter so far and none last year. Nearby L. robinsoniana, L. rotundifolia and L. endauensis have minor to moderate burn. Amazing since L. woodfordii is from a tropical habitat.

[tank]

Eric what were your low temps? Is that L. woodfordii out in the open. Thanks.

[Eric in Orlando]

We have had 6 nights at 32F or below. 29F has been the lowest but its hit 29F 3 different nights. The duration of below freezing has been less than last.

All 3 specimens have some tree cover. But the other tender Livistona that were damaged are nearby and also under tree cover.

[Kathryn]

I have several L. chinensis and decora and one green petiole L. saribus. All have at least several feet of trunk and no overhead protection. I normally get down to 28°F a few nights each winter and none of the palms are affected. In January 2010 we had several subfreezing nights with the lowest at 22°F. The L. chinensis had leaf burn, but the decora and saribus were fine. I wasn't sure how low of temperatures saribus could take and it’s one of my favorites so I was pleasantly surprised.

[_Keith]

All of my Livistona made it though last year, consectivie lows of 20,21,20 or thereabouts just fine. Most leaf damage on chinensis and one of three saribus. The largest, healthiest, and most exposed saribus did showed no damage. My two decora (decipiens, species) whatever they are showed no damage at all. I got the last from Catherine (Creekside) so she may be able to elaborate more on their lineage. I suspect all of those palms mentioned will outlive me.

[merrillwx]

Hi, Kathryn:

Apologies for being off topic, but what is that beautiful fish you're holding?

Best Wishes,

merrill

[Kathryn]

Hey Merrill – That’s a permit I caught in Belize a few years ago. They are often caught off the coast of Florida, but that was my first. I was surprised by how strong such a small fish could be.

[Walter John]

Very hard to know this one. Some Livistonas go through very cold temps and very hot temps. No idea..

[paulgila]

nothing seems to touch any of the livistona i am growing. the main difference i have noticed is growth rate.

[Eric in Orlando]

I'm curious how hardy some of these "newer" Australian species are;

L. concinna, lanuginosa, and nasmophila

[Eric in Orlando]

And what about L. merrillii ? It is native to the Phillipines. Is it tender like L. rotundifolia or semi hardy like L. woodfordii ?

[merrillwx]

Hi, Eric:

I had L. Merrillii years ago. It was clearly hardier than L. rotundifolia, but I have no info on L. woodfordii.

Best Wishes,

merrill

Edited February 5, 2011 by merrillwx

[Tulio]

I have L. merrillii and lanuginosa and never been bother by the cold in Lutz even these last two winters

[Bay Winds]

I am in Orange Beach, AL.  I am considering purchasing L. Australis for a north facing yard on a windy bay.   The trees are about 10 foot overall in height.  I have heard that Australis do not handle wind or frost, therefore I am very hesitant to purchase.   They are quite expensive. Our coldest temperature was about 20 degrees F last winter plus we had at least one frost.  We can get some fairly strong north winds coming across the bay as well.  I have Sable palmetto’s that handled both Hurricane Sally last September plus the cold/frost last winter.   What can I expect if I decide to install the L. Australis?  Thanks so much for any input!!