Many thanks to those who ruined and caused by post on palm fossils to be driven offtropic and closed. I really appreciate it and love to see my topic hijacked.

I thought it was a fascinating topic, and didn't see all the commotion until it became locked. Some of the comments were a real display of the knowledge pool that exists here on PalmTalk. Is there no way to edit out the off-topic posts and revive it?

But how do you stop people from kept on re-posting, John? That was the problem...

Regards, Ari

But how do you stop people from kept on re-posting, John? That was the problem...

Regards, Ari

As I recall, one person upset the apple cart by drawing attention to their version of how the world began. Quite an extraordinary outburst, which was met with equal wrath. I think these kind of off-topic threads could be salvaged though. IMO, the overall thread topic, under "normal" circumstances was not likely to have gone awry.

That's a shame, Eric. I didn't see the topic and I read almost any topic you post. Always interesting and always informative.

Eric, so sorry to hear this. I found the photos fascinating. Don't give up on posting more in the future because of it. I've learned much from your topics.

Thanks for posting it though! I really enjoyed what I learned about ancient taxonomy off of it. I wish the moderators could just delete comments rather than lock an entire thread (although I understand why they did)

-Krishna

It was a very interesting thread without the off topic comments, but I definitely understand that just deleting the bad comments probably wouldn't have worked.

Eric, that palm fossil was very old, do you know if palmate or pinnate palms appear first in the fossil record?

I am incredibly fascinated in extinct palms or any other species for that matter. Please, keep the discussion going and let's not veer off course again! I have little to no information (only a lot of questions) to contribute but I'm reading, and learning. Did palms differentiate from cycad-like plants back in the cretaceous period? Was there an extinct species that had both feather and fan palm characteristics?

Dear Eric

I understand how you feel....

Love,

kris.

It is good you brought this up Eric. Just a few hours back, before you wrote this, I messaged Bo to say that it was regrettable that the discussion - which could otherwise have been very enlightening, was cut short. I am very keen to understand early evolution of palms and the intermediate forms between palms of today and ancient monocots.

Yes it was a very good topic, imagine what Darwin must have endured in his age. You are in good company Eric.

It is a shame the administrators dont have facility to delete individual posts and ban the troublemakers to prevent them reappearing. Maybe this could be a future feature ?

Eric, I was sorry to see your thread locked, although i can see the reasons behind it.

Its a shame, but a sad fact of life, that there are folks who are at no shortage of opinions.... and apparently, there is also no shortage of the overly incessant desire to let everyone within earshot know exactly what those opinions are.

Sorry it happened, it was a great thread.

Rusty

Eric,

I'm very sorry we had to remove your thread. At this point it would require too much editing to clean it up and revive it, but there's a simple solution. Start a new thread with your initial photo and comment and invite discussion. And this time we'll be more vigilant and any post that strays will be deleted quickly.

Bo-Göran

Stick to your guns Eric and repost.

Eric--

Please do re-start the thread as Bo suggests. I for one never saw the original but find it a fascinating topic and would love to read and see what you had to share.

Stick to your guns Eric and repost.

Ditto, Eric...it was a great thread...it needs to come back!

Rusty

That's a shame, Eric. I didn't see the topic...

I for one never saw the original...

Here's the thread that veered off the rails...

Eric,

I missed this thread. I also vote that it would be good for you to start over and the participants keep within guidelines. I am very intersted in what happened to tropical plants during the ice ages and their interglacials. The area I live has a not really well understood history of these cycles and their impacts on amazonian flora. Manaus for example was still tropical forest altough it had an average temperature 10 C lower than that today. Since the last glacial maximum was thought to have been around 20,000 years ago most of the plants including the palms currently found here were in the forest flora. Our planet has an extremely intersting story to tell and so much is still not known. And, ancient palms are a great subject.

dk

There was some discussion a while back on how Phoenix might be a crossover point between pinnate and palmate palms. John Dransfield posted some very good info there on palm evolution. Can anyone find that thread?

Oopps here it is.

http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=21873&st=0&p=365101&fromsearch=1&#entry365101

Thanks! I will repost the topic.

I have been interesred in prehistoric plants especially during the Cretaceous Period when "modern" angiosperms began appearing and mixing with more ancient conifers, ferns, etc.

I'm not sure which came first palmate or pinnate but from what I have read the Sabalites, Phoenicites, Nypa were amongst the oldest of palms similar to those of today. And then there is whatever the ancestor was that palms and pandans split from and this similarity is still evident in the inflorescence of Nypa, which is very similar to Pandanus.

Thanks! I will repost the topic.

I have been interesred in prehistoric plants especially during the Cretaceous Period when "modern" angiosperms began appearing and mixing with more ancient conifers, ferns, etc.

I'm not sure which came first palmate or pinnate but from what I have read the Sabalites, Phoenicites, Nypa were amongst the oldest of palms similar to those of today. And then there is whatever the ancestor was that palms and pandans split from and this similarity is still evident in the inflorescence of Nypa, which is very similar to Pandanus.

I recall that there was a discussion on here of the evolution of pinnate and palmate palms. I seem to remember that they were first palmate, then evolved into pinnate, and then evolved into palmate again. Although that may be backward now that I think about it The only thing I remember with much clarity is that Nypa-like palms were assumed to be the earliest.

-Krishna

OOPS! Just missed seeing Jerry's thread. That is the one I was talking about!

Edited September 12, 201015 yr by krishnaraoji88

Please understand that we do not and cannot read every single post within minutes of when it is posted. We do eat and sleep, and manage to get a little gardening in here and there.

If you would like to see more threads saved from those who choose to insert personal political, religious, or sexually oriented subject matter, I would like to encourage the membership to take advantage of the "Report" feature. When you read a post that opens the door to discussions about religion, politics, sexual content, etc. "Report" it. That will get a notice to me immediately via email. Then I will see it whenever I check email, which is several times a day. That will prevent the fast-fire back and forth comments that inevitable ensue when the door to controversy is opened.

It is this fast moving back and forth that makes it very time consuming to surgically repair all of the individual posts, and to keep things so that the thread flows coherently. In addition, every time a post was "quoted" needs to be found and corrected as well. Of course the solution is to stay away from controversial discussions unless they are about palms

In other words, the members can police and save threads better than we can. As soon as someone challenges Darwinism with claims about the Bible and creationism, or Al Gore is mentioned in connection with the politics of Global Warming, "Report" it. We will have much more of a chance to save worthwhile threads the earlier troublesome posts are seen.

Its a shame Eric you thread was handled so poorly by some members and even our moderating team. Bo, your post 28 was not viewed by many members in time before they shot off an off topic post in reply to Ben's post. Ben was agressively awaiting any and all replies in Erics thread and the thread could have been saved when you discovered it by simply deleting Bens post #9 making a mod edit and clearing out all the off topic post beyond it.

However you simply decided to sit back and watch the drama unfold.

Eric, is a valued member in my eyes, to see his thread treated like this really upsets me, I hate to stir the pot, but this moderating is really wearing on me and Im guessing other members as well.

Why couldnt the thread be saved, why does Eric have to go out of his way to make a new thread because post #9-27 in the original thread couldnt be erased?

(time explaing the aftermath of this whole ordeal takes more time than doing th job right the first time)

armchair palmite waffleing on about moderation,

Luke

Its a shame Eric you thread was handled so poorly by some members and even our moderating team. Bo, your post 28 was not viewed by many members in time before they shot off an off topic post in reply to Ben's post. Ben was agressively awaiting any and all replies in Erics thread and the thread could have been saved when you discovered it by simply deleting Bens post #9 making a mod edit and clearing out all the off topic post beyond it.

However you simply decided to sit back and watch the drama unfold.

Eric, is a valued member in my eyes, to see his thread treated like this really upsets me, I hate to stir the pot, but this moderating is really wearing on me and Im guessing other members as well.

Why couldnt the thread be saved, why does Eric have to go out of his way to make a new thread because post #9-27 in the original thread couldnt be erased?

(time explaing the aftermath of this whole ordeal takes more time than doing th job right the first time)

armchair palmite waffleing on about moderation,

Luke

Luke,

I don't expect you or others to understand that moderating is a no win situation. In some instances, no matter what action is taken, someone will disapprove. I also don't expect you to understand the considerable time that is involved when answering and explaining to people why their posts were deleted or modified in some way when trying to "save" a thread. The time and effort doesn't end with the simple deletion and modifications to try and let the thread remain. People do not like having their posts deleted or edited, and many times object strenuously with a volley of emails and PMs that I feel obligated to answer.

In addition, in this case Bo warned against further religious references and let the thread remain open. That should have been the end of it, and the thread could have continued on unabated. However, a member refused to heed that warning and posted numerous inappropriate times thereafter. And he probably would have continued to do so even if his subsequent posts were deleted one by one. But we can not "baby sit" threads when members refuse to abide by fair warnings and continue to add fuel to the fire. One warning should be enough.

Luke,

In addition to Dean's excellent explanation I just have to address one comment of yours:

"However you simply decided to sit back and watch the drama unfold."

Wow, sit back and watch the drama unfold! What a concept! Actually, I had very little time, and definitely not enough time to start editing the thread, which is why I added that post. THEN I LEFT! Yes, I left the computer and I left the house and was gone for several hours! Apparently a well kept secret that Dean and I share - going some place once in a while and not being on the computer 24/7. Now, in retrospect I realize it would have been much more fun to sit back and watch the drama unfold! Well, as they say, hindsight is 20-20. I'll have to take that into consideration next time so I won't miss out on all the fun. I do appreciate the suggestion!

Bo-Göran

Now i have a small suggestion to make to the Mod committe is that the topic starter should be given the right to remove the post which he or she deems to be irrevelant to their main topic header..i.e jokes,off beat topics should be censored by the topic starter.If this power is given to members here i think one need not trouble our mod or the committe often.

And even this will not lead to any controversy between the erring members & the mod,i.e mod does not need to give any explinations for the removal of the posts.As the post were deleated by the topic stater himself and not by the mod committe ?

I hope my suggestions are taken in good spirit and i need not say time and again that this forum is run to the best upbeat possible,and most if not all members are happy the way its run.

Love,

kris.

Now i have a small suggestion to make to the Mod committe is that the topic starter should be given the right to remove the post which he or she deems to be irrevelant to their main topic header..i.e jokes,off beat topics should be censored by the topic starter.If this power is given to members here i think one need not trouble our mod or the committe often.

And even this will not lead to any controversy between the erring members & the mod,i.e mod does not need to give any explinations for the removal of the posts.As the post were deleated by the topic stater himself and not by the mod committe ?

I hope my suggestions are taken in good spirit and i need not say time and again that this forum is run to the best upbeat possible,and most if not all members are happy the way its run.

Love,

kris.

Kris,

Thanks for taking the time for a suggestion. Unfortunately that feature is not an option. In fact, I don't know of any forum software that would allow the originator the ability to Moderate their own threads.

Eric,

I was gardening yesterday so missed the computer posting and viewing. It got me to read the thread though --- I will try to post on it contructively and further, I salute Dean for all the efforts on our behalfs

Best wishes,

Ed

(Ed - I had to remove your first comment in this post. Definitely offensive to some forum members - bgl)