New Guinea Highlands

[Jonathan]

New Guinea is the largest tropical island on earth, has plenty of land over 2000m (6500') in altitude, including some mountains up to 5000m (16,000'), and is largely covered in rainforest - home to about 250 species of palms - so where are the all the cloud forest palms?

I'm sure there must be others, but the only species I can think of offhand is Ptychococcus lepidotus, which acording to PACSOA grows at elevations up to 3000m.

This is probably just due to my ignorance, but it seems strange that Central and South America and the Himalayas have produced so many species that will grow in temperate climates (Chamaedorea, Ceroxylon, Parajubaea, Trachycarpus, Caryota, etc....) and New Guinea hardly any.

Is it just because of the inaccessable and generally dangerous nature of the place that a lot more highland species are not in cultivation, or am I missing something else obvious?

Cheers,

Jonathan

[LJG]

I always thought some of you Aussie's had the best collections of the New Guinea stuff. From what I have heard Clayton and Mikey have tons of stuff, many of it still unnamed.

[Tyrone]

Jonathan I think a lot hasn't been researched up there because of the reasons you've mentioned. The sad thing is 80% of it's original rainforest will be gone in ten years, wiping out who knows how many unique species. We destroy much quicker than we discover. Some of the reasons for deforestation are Australian mining companies. Also the streams in some areas are polluted with mercury and cyanide used in gold extraction.

It's dangerous up there. I've heard from people who have worked up there that you can be macheted at an instant if a disagreement breaks out between yourself and the locals. Also reportedly the authorities tend to execute and ask questions later. Not nice. They were eating people only 30 years ago in parts of New Guinea.

Best regards

Tyrone

[aussiearoids]

Several of the Calyptrocalyx are highland dwellers .

[Jonathan]

Len - I'm a long way from the action down here.....hopefully might be visiting Utopia in the next month or so, and it would be nice to know what questions to ask Clayton - dont want to waste his time completely!

Tyrone - I think you're right about all that, my uncle worked at the Uni in Port Moresby in the '80's and it was a pretty rough town by all accounts. He reckons the highlands were like another world compared to even Moresby...basically lawless. The Australian mining companies up there should be bloody well ashamed of themselves - its been a litany of disgrace, and stinks of a colonial power refusing to give up its assets. We should be paying them to not cut the forests down, its crazy.

On a lighter note.....how are your P. lepidotus going?

Michael - can you give us some species names?

Cheers,

Jonathan

[Tyrone]

Jonathan, Of the 20 seeds I bought in, I traded two seeds with a friend who had no success, but out of my 18 I had two come up. One has been faster, was the first to come up and is much bigger having fulling opened it's first leaf, the other one is just opening its new spear. Quite slow, but not much slower than a foxtail at this stage actually. I'll take a picture for you.

I wish I could grow Calyptrocalyx, but there's something I'm not getting right. My seedlings get to the first leaf stage then start brown tipping, and some get to the third leaf and then just completely brown out and die. I don't know what it is. To me they're as hard as Geonoma which do exactly the same thing for me.

Best regards

Tyrone

[Tyrone]

Here is a picture of my two Ptychococcus lepidotus. On the table next to them is my Chambeyronia lepidota's not from New Guinea admittedly but from New Caledonia and I can't be bothered starting a new thread. The name sounds somewhat similar though.

[Tyrone]

Not from New Guinea but on the same table as my P lepidotus is my Dypsis tsaravoasira with a pink new leaf, and my Tahina spectabilis. I got trigger happy.

Best regards

Tyrone

[peachy]

My Ptychococcus lepidotus is turning out to be quite slow, I still have it inside the house though. Calyptrocalyx hollrungii are my favourite of the NG palms. They are so pretty and such tough little things too. They are a fabulous unkillable houseplant and take my horrible cold nights outside without any problems either. I am carefully nursing along a Pigafetta filaris as well (also a NG palm) as they are so quick growing and a very attractive palm as well. He gets carried outside into the sun every morning and brought in every night. On an entirely different topic....I was reading some links from something to something else and learnt that Arenga engleri will grow in the ground in some parts of Pomgolia. (that's England for the non Oz speaking members) Jon when you come through Bris, I have a little A. engleri here that you can have to try out.

Peachy

[Jerry@TreeZoo]

On the New Caledonia Biennial I talked to Michael Ferraro about this. At that time he worked for Nong Nooch Garden as a collector and had just come from New Guinea before going to NC. He said he did not have the opportunity to explore the highlands much but had seen very large, Royal Palm sized palms in the highlands in the distance. I cannot remember everything he said but he said it was a very difficult place to collect. The natives being, in some situations, only a generation or two from being cannibals. He also said that the political situation caused plenty of problems with one side a province of Indonesia and the other side independent.

He said that the highlands were almost completely unexplored as far as plant collecting was concerned. I thought that New Guinea would be the next island of interest in the palm world but it never happened. New Caledonia and Madagascar became the focus instead.

Jerry

[Jonathan]

Not from New Guinea but on the same table as my P lepidotus is my Dypsis tsaravoasira with a pink new leaf, and my Tahina spectabilis. I got trigger happy.

Best regards

Tyrone

...I think its called thread hijacking....

[Jonathan]

My Ptychococcus lepidotus is turning out to be quite slow, I still have it inside the house though. Calyptrocalyx hollrungii are my favourite of the NG palms. They are so pretty and such tough little things too. They are a fabulous unkillable houseplant and take my horrible cold nights outside without any problems either. I am carefully nursing along a Pigafetta filaris as well (also a NG palm) as they are so quick growing and a very attractive palm as well. He gets carried outside into the sun every morning and brought in every night. On an entirely different topic....I was reading some links from something to something else and learnt that Arenga engleri will grow in the ground in some parts of Pomgolia. (that's England for the non Oz speaking members) Jon when you come through Bris, I have a little A. engleri here that you can have to try out.

Peachy

Thats very kind of you Peachy - I might have to take you up on that offer!

When you say C. hollrungii will take your cold nights, are you talking about the sub zero nights you've had???

...Palm Radar, Activate....

Cheers,

Jonathan

[Tyrone]

Not from New Guinea but on the same table as my P lepidotus is my Dypsis tsaravoasira with a pink new leaf, and my Tahina spectabilis. I got trigger happy.

Best regards

Tyrone

...I think its called thread hijacking....

Sorry.

[Tyrone]

On the New Caledonia Biennial I talked to Michael Ferraro about this. At that time he worked for Nong Nooch Garden as a collector and had just come from New Guinea before going to NC. He said he did not have the opportunity to explore the highlands much but had seen very large, Royal Palm sized palms in the highlands in the distance. I cannot remember everything he said but he said it was a very difficult place to collect. The natives being, in some situations, only a generation or two from being cannibals. He also said that the political situation caused plenty of problems with one side a province of Indonesia and the other side independent.

He said that the highlands were almost completely unexplored as far as plant collecting was concerned. I thought that New Guinea would be the next island of interest in the palm world but it never happened. New Caledonia and Madagascar became the focus instead.

Jerry

I wonder what those Royal size palms were.

Best regards

Tyrone

[Jonathan]

On the New Caledonia Biennial I talked to Michael Ferraro about this. At that time he worked for Nong Nooch Garden as a collector and had just come from New Guinea before going to NC. He said he did not have the opportunity to explore the highlands much but had seen very large, Royal Palm sized palms in the highlands in the distance. I cannot remember everything he said but he said it was a very difficult place to collect. The natives being, in some situations, only a generation or two from being cannibals. He also said that the political situation caused plenty of problems with one side a province of Indonesia and the other side independent.

He said that the highlands were almost completely unexplored as far as plant collecting was concerned. I thought that New Guinea would be the next island of interest in the palm world but it never happened. New Caledonia and Madagascar became the focus instead.

Jerry

Jerry,

the PACSOA article about P. lepidotus that I refered to at the start of this thread was by Michael Ferraro - thats what got me thinking about all this. Those Royal sized palms sound very interesting - what could they be?

It would be great to get some first hand information about such a little known palm flora....maybe the IPS could fund a Palm Transect across the PNG Highlands, with Michael as the expedition leader.

I'll man the Base Camp, which will be in a bar in Cairns....

We'll probably discover that Clayton already has every PNG species in his nursery!

Cheers,

Jonathan

[Jonathan]

Not from New Guinea but on the same table as my P lepidotus is my Dypsis tsaravoasira with a pink new leaf, and my Tahina spectabilis. I got trigger happy.

Best regards

Tyrone

...I think its called thread hijacking....

Sorry.

Thats OK, I was just being deliberately terse!

[Alberto]

I begun a same topic some years ago ,but cannot find it. Maybe it was on the´´old forum´´

I was intriged by the a Casuarina sp (´´tjemara´´or´´cemara´´) that some dutch colonizers brought from the highlands of New Guinea and that grows happily here at my place. If the casuarinas are hardy....were are the palms???.... It´s a shame that this thread disapeared....

Edited July 27, 2009 by Alberto

[newcal]

Those Royal palms in the distance, could they be Gulubia longispatha? They apparently grow in central Papua at elevations of between 500 to 4600 feet. Worth trying in any frostless mediterranean climate from all accounts. they grow to 80 feet tall and are the most beautiful in the genus according to Riffle and Craft...cheers Mike Green(NEWCAL)

[Daryl]

My Hydriastele longispathas are very tough palms...slow growing when young, but not fazed by cold. Mine took freezing temps 2 years ago and didn't even get a spot on the leaves.

And as for Calyptrocalyx, I have never had any issues with C.elegans or C.holrungii regarding cold. There are many variations of these species though. One thing I can say is never let C.holrungii dry out as it means instant death, just like Pigafetta.

regards,

Daryl

[ariscott]

Jonathan, Of the 20 seeds I bought in, I traded two seeds with a friend who had no success, but out of my 18 I had two come up. One has been faster, was the first to come up and is much bigger having fulling opened it's first leaf, the other one is just opening its new spear. Quite slow, but not much slower than a foxtail at this stage actually. I'll take a picture for you.

I wish I could grow Calyptrocalyx, but there's something I'm not getting right. My seedlings get to the first leaf stage then start brown tipping, and some get to the third leaf and then just completely brown out and die. I don't know what it is. To me they're as hard as Geonoma which do exactly the same thing for me.

Best regards

Tyrone

Tyrone,

Do you have them in community pots? I worked it out that they don't like any dry wind on their roots. So, next time I get some seeds, I will try individual pots. I always loose mine when I try to prick the seedlings out. The same with geonoma!!!

Regards, Ari

[Jonathan]

Hmmm, all very interesting.

Is anyone growing Calyptrocalyx pauciflorus?

According to another PACSOA article by Michael Ferrero it replaces C. polyphyllus at higher altitudes in the Hunstein Mountain Range in PNG.

There is no mention of what altitude it goes up to....or if another species replaces it even further up, as Ceroxylon and Chamaedorea spp. seem to do in the Andes.

We may never know.

Cheers,

Jonathan

[Tyrone]

Thanks Jonathan for starting this thread. I've wondered about the same thing a few times myself. I'm going to have a look for Hydriastele longispatha.

Ari, yes they are in community pots. I think my problem stems from periods of too much water followed by less water, maybe too hot at times in summer. I find in my hothouse that even though I have it controlled by thermostats and misters etc all it takes is one palm above a small com pot to put out a new leaf and for a couple of weeks the palm below may get very little water until I realise it's not happy, but by then the damage is done. It's also possible that my hothouse is too bright in summer. It's all a big unending learning curve, but I'm getting better I think. One day I will get Calyptrocalyx to do well for me.

A friend of mine in a cooler area is growing C polyphylus and C holrungii really well. In fact he put a 7cm tall C polyphyllus in the ground in an area that got fullsun for part of the day and the thing thrived, got to 30cm tall and then died when he dug it up to move house.

So these PNG palms are worth investigating and learning about IMO, before they're all gone.

Best regards

Tyrone

[Jonathan]

Tyrone - is your friends 'cooler area' on the WA south coast, like Albany or Denmark?

Cheers,

Jonathan

[Tyrone]

Tyrone - is your friends 'cooler area' on the WA south coast, like Albany or Denmark?

Cheers,

Jonathan

No, not that cool Jonathan. He lives half way between Perth and Mandurah in a frosty area. It would only be about 4km from the ocean but it's cold in winter for some reason. Maybe it's a frost hollow, cold air drainage thing.

What Albany and Denmark do have going for them is they never get frost, and it's always humid even in summer, just a bit cool in winter and mild in summer. In the right spot you MAY be able to grow a high altitude Calyptrocalyx down there. I know of Chambeyronia's doing OK down there, which may give you a reference point to work with. My mother-in-law grows great bromeliads in almost fullsun down there without any fuss too.

Best regards

Tyrone

[LJG]

Doc Darian has Gronophyllum chaunostachys (Now Hydriastele chaunostachys) growing in his SoCal garden. Beautiful palm, but real slow. No clue where he got it since that is one palm I have never been able to find or even find a source of seed.

[peachy]

Hmmm, all very interesting.

Is anyone growing Calyptrocalyx pauciflorus?

According to another PACSOA article by Michael Ferrero it replaces C. polyphyllus at higher altitudes in the Hunstein Mountain Range in PNG.

There is no mention of what altitude it goes up to....or if another species replaces it even further up, as Ceroxylon and Chamaedorea spp. seem to do in the Andes.

We may never know.

Cheers,

Jonathan

I did have a C. pauciflorus but it croaked on me for reasons unknown. Just this last 3 weeks a few palms have become decidedly unwell looking, naturally all the ones that weren't cheap or easy to find. The Ptychosperma waiteanums are dropping like flies too, just after they get a lovely new purple leaf, down they go. Calyptrocalyx elegans is really tough Jon, but I don't have one right now. Mine fell victim to a starving pekingese who went on a rampage for fresh greens. Anyhow, I will put a C. hollrungii with the A. engleri for you. If for some unknown reason it starts to suffer, they are a great little houseplant so its a win win . Any other requests while I am still in a magnanimous phase ?

Peachy.

[Jonathan]

Once again you are too kind, oh magnanimous one.

I cant think of anything else offhand - I'll just have to raid your garden!

Cheers,

Jonathan

[Alberto]

...........Calyptrocalyx hollrungii are my favourite of the NG palms. They are so pretty and such tough little things too. They are a fabulous unkillable houseplant and take my horrible cold nights outside without any problems either...........

Peachy

Hi Peachy!

How horrible are this cold nights? Frost? How many degrees? Thanks!

[Alberto]

My Hydriastele longispathas are very tough palms...slow growing when young, but not fazed by cold. Mine took freezing temps 2 years ago and didn't even get a spot on the leaves.

And as for Calyptrocalyx, I have never had any issues with C.elegans or C.holrungii regarding cold. There are many variations of these species though. One thing I can say is never let C.holrungii dry out as it means instant death, just like Pigafetta.

regards,

Daryl

Hi Daryl,

How cold were this´´freezing temps´´ 2 years ago?

If you take a bangalow as a ´´standart´´ how you compare Calyptrocalyx elegans or C.holrungii and Hydristele longispatha to it,regarding cold hardiness? Thanks!

Edited July 28, 2009 by Alberto

[Daryl]

My Hydriastele longispathas are very tough palms...slow growing when young, but not fazed by cold. Mine took freezing temps 2 years ago and didn't even get a spot on the leaves.

And as for Calyptrocalyx, I have never had any issues with C.elegans or C.holrungii regarding cold. There are many variations of these species though. One thing I can say is never let C.holrungii dry out as it means instant death, just like Pigafetta.

regards,

Daryl

Hi Daryl,

How cold were this´´freezing temps´´ 2 years ago?

If you take a bangalow as a ´´standart´´ how you compare Calyptrocalyx elegans or C.holrungii and Hydristele longispatha to it,regarding cold hardiness? Thanks!

Hi Alberto,

We had an overnight low of -1C which was enough to fry a lot of my larger palms. Cold enough for Archontophoenix maxima to have 50% leaf burn. The Bangalows were untouched, as were all of the palms I mentioned in my earlier post...no damage to any of them, not even 'little leaf' after the winter.

regards,

Daryl

[peachy]

Hullo Alberto,

My horrible nights can go down to minus 3 in a normal winter, colder in a freak black frost event. Usually though we seem to sit just above freezing, during the coldest periods of winter. The Calyptopcalyx palms seem to cope with this quite well. However, they are not planted in the open ground. Mine are in pots on the deck, under the carport or wedged between big plants in the garden. While the cold doesnt worry them, I would be doubtful of their resistance to frost.

Peachy