To protect or to not protect

[war_eagle]

I have 3 Foxtails with about 7' trunk that are planted out in the open. They have seen 28 (no frost) before without any protection and didn't blink an eye. The forecast for tonight here in south Houston is for light rain with sleet and snow flurries possible early, then partly cloudy skies and a low between 32 and 34. A low of 32-34 isn't going to hurt these guys, but IF it were to dop below freezing and some ice form on the fronds are we talking major damage to the foliage? Is it worth spending a half hour in the 35 degree rain to wrap them with xmas lights and frost cloth? And if so, would you just tie up and wrap the fronds and spear, or mummify the whole tree from gound up? Thanks for any help.

[BigFrond]

I think it is worth the time to protect them because it will take them a while to grow back. You should wrap the fronds with clear plastic. The root area should be cover with plastic also to prevent the cold water and ice melt from getting into the ground.

[kahili]

I don't think that I would use plastic directly on the leaves, that method tends to do as much damage to the leaves as much as just leaving the leaves exposed to the freezing weather. I would wrap the leaves with some klnd of material (thicker the better) other than plastic first, and then waterproof it with plastic, making sure that the material (blankets, frost blankets etc) can't get wet. I would include the crown in this protection, as well as at least a few feet down the trunk.

Snow and ice act as a type of insulation, so that isn't so bad as long as the leaves are wrapped. I would not worry so much about cold water getting to the roots-esp such a short term storm coming in. If it rains and its 34 degrees-that is still cold water and wouldn't normally bother a palm in this zone. If you wanted to, you could add an extra layer of mulch around the base of the palm.

As for lights, I don't have any experience with adding them-like how close can they be to the leaves (touching them etc-which they would probably as you are wrapping the leaves), but I think if this is short term cold, and the palm can handle 28, then you probably are ok without them.

[PalmatierMeg]

Regarding plastic on palms, here in SW FL when temps fall close to freezing, we are warned by forecasters to NEVER place plastic coverings directly on plants. It can cause more harm than good. So, definitely wrap foxtail fronds in a blanketing material before applying plastic to protect from sleet. If the front passes by fairly quickly and temps do not fall too far below freezing for more than a few hours, you should be fine. Your palm sounds pretty good-sized. I don't think I would mummify the whole thing, just mulch around the base. Or wrap a few strings of Christmas mini-lights around the trunk. Provides warmth and deccoration. My 12' foxtail has gone through several freezes and while the fronds burned, the tree survived. However, it never rains/sleets here at those temps. We need clear skies to let heat radiate out on freezing nights. And temps rise quickly after sun does. So, you have to factor in how long temps stay below freezing into any weather equation - more than several hours could mean big trouble.

[war_eagle]

Thanks for the help. I think I'll tie up the fronds and cover with a blanket and then a tarp/plastic.

Since it's unlikey that our temps will fall below freezing for very long (if at all) I don't think I'll mess with adding extra heat via xmas lights, but I have a few questions for those who do use xmas lights for extra heat. I wrapped a teddy bear palm last night with lights, a blanket, and then a tarp. After the lights were on for about 4 hours the inside temp reached 90 degrees and the outside temp was 36. I decided to turn the lights off since I had to go to sleep and didn't want to risk burning down the tree. I used 2 strings of the regular clear mini-lights (25 watts per string). Is it normal for the temp to get so high? Should I wrap with blankets, then lights, then tarp to reduce the temperature? Maybe use just one string? Thanks for any help.

PalmatierMeg, it's fairly unusual in this area for there to be any precipitation when the temperature is below freezing as well. I remember the two or three times growing up that we had snow flurries and the schools would let us kids out on the playground to see the crazy white stuff falling from the sky. We did have a freak Christmas Eve "snow storm" in 2004 where some of it (<1 inch) actually stuck to the gound, but in my lifetime it has been very rare.

[war_eagle]

Well, I decided to wrap with a blanket, a string of lights, and then a tarp over the top. That should be plenty of protection for tonight. I got everything wrapped up about 5 minutes before the sleet started falling, which has now become actual snow. It's just barely snowing and not sticking to anything, but still a strange sight here in Houston. The temperature at my house is 33.2. Wunderground is predicting a low of 31 tonight, but weather.com, weatherbug, accuweather, and the national weather service have us staying at 33 or 34 tonight. Hopefully wundergound is wrong and all this rain won't become ice. Luckily it is supposed to be sunny and 60 tomorrow and back in the 70s by this weekend, so this cold snap won't last too long.

Here's a picture of the 3 Foxtails all wrapped up.

[paulgila]

great job! maybe you shouldve done a "candy cane " wrap job since its the holiday season

[kahili]

at least you can leave the lights up for awhile....looks very festive!

[gsn]

All I will say is be careful with the rope/Christmas tree lights.

There have been several incidents on this board of palms being roasted/toasted by these lights!

Good luck with them durning your winter,they must be a tough grow there.

[Jeff Searle]

AND......the only other thing to add, I would always water the root system in with plenty of water earlier in the day. You want to make sure the roots are kept wet and will help retain alittle heat underground.

Jeff

[war_eagle]

Thanks for all the help. I decided against using rope lights after finding the reports on this board of those lights burning and killing some palms. I used the regular old mini-lights and put a remote thermometer in the crown of each palm that I wrapped so that I can keep an eye on the temps.

This is what I have found so far. I tested each string of lights with a watt meter and found that they use 23 watts. I wrapped one palm last night with lights first, then a blanket, and then a tarp. It's only about 6' total height and had 2 strings of lights inside. After about 4 hours it hit 90.0 degrees, so I turned the lights off before I went to sleep. I have no idea how hot it would have eventually gotten. Today I wrapped the 3 Foxtails with a blanket first, then lights, then a tarp. There is one string of lights on the trunk (about 7') and one string of lights wrapped around the blanket covering the fronds (about 6'). The bottom 2-3 feet of trunk is exposed, not covered by blanket or tarp. The temps in the Foxtails have stayed in the upper 50s and low 60s.

I was very surprised that just 2 strings of lights, using a total of only 46 watts, could produce enough heat to raise the temperature in a wrapped palm tree to over 90 degrees. It appears that adding the blanket first then the lights makes a consider difference in the temperature inside the wrapping. Also, the Foxtails are about twice as tall, so there's less power per foot in those setups. It probably wasn't necessary to add the lights for this particular cold front, but it'll be good practice for a real freeze I guess.

[PalmatierMeg]

Thanks for photos and description. I think I will do something similar (blanket wrap + mini-lights) for my 8' Areca concinna if we get a freeze here. If I can keep it above 40F (actually it has sailed through 39F already this winter) it should do fine.

[ghar41]

Thanks for all the help. I decided against using rope lights after finding the reports on this board of those lights burning and killing some palms. I used the regular old mini-lights and put a remote thermometer in the crown of each palm that I wrapped so that I can keep an eye on the temps.

This is what I have found so far. I tested each string of lights with a watt meter and found that they use 23 watts. I wrapped one palm last night with lights first, then a blanket, and then a tarp. It's only about 6' total height and had 2 strings of lights inside. After about 4 hours it hit 90.0 degrees, so I turned the lights off before I went to sleep. I have no idea how hot it would have eventually gotten. Today I wrapped the 3 Foxtails with a blanket first, then lights, then a tarp. There is one string of lights on the trunk (about 7') and one string of lights wrapped around the blanket covering the fronds (about 6'). The bottom 2-3 feet of trunk is exposed, not covered by blanket or tarp. The temps in the Foxtails have stayed in the upper 50s and low 60s.

I was very surprised that just 2 strings of lights, using a total of only 46 watts, could produce enough heat to raise the temperature in a wrapped palm tree to over 90 degrees. It appears that adding the blanket first then the lights makes a consider difference in the temperature inside the wrapping. Also, the Foxtails are about twice as tall, so there's less power per foot in those setups. It probably wasn't necessary to add the lights for this particular cold front, but it'll be good practice for a real freeze I guess.

After many attempts to grow this palm in my area (USDA zone 9b, Sunset Zone 14) Ive given up. There are, as of yet, no reports of Wodyetia bifurcata growing in Northern California. Even in the East Bay area, in the coveted Sunset Zone 16, no luck.

I have had trees that have made it through freezes, looking better than nearby A. cunninghamiana's. The A.Cunninghamianas often pull out of it, the W. bifurcata's are dead by March 1st.

Even though you and I are both in USDA 9b, it is my humble opinion that.....the number of hours of heat you recieve is much more important than the short subfreezing lows this palm is exposed to. We are currently experiencing temps between 35F and 60F daily....whereas parts of Texas and Florida that experience lower extreme lows, warm into the 70's and even 80's the following days!

This palm starves to death here in our "cool winter, with mild freeze" areas...but apparently grows in Houston, Orlando and other "warm winter, with extreme low" cities. Ditto Roystonea regia.

Again just my humble observations.

[war_eagle]

Glenn, they do seem to love our hot, humid summers. I planted them in March 2007, so this is only their second winter. Last winter was very mild, it got down to 28 one night and between 30-32 only a handful of times. After several 9b-type winters here lately, I'm starting to see a lot of Foxtails around town, but it's just a matter of time before our string of mild winters runs out. In the great (or horrible) freezes of the 1950s and 1980s it got down to low teens and single digits here in Houston, so I have no doubt that Foxtails are not a good longterm option for this area. But, they are beautiful, relatively cheap, and fast growing trees. I will protect these as long as it's feasible and after that they are at the mercy of Mother Nature. I picked up a couple of A. cunninghamiana this fall, so it's good to hear that they are at least a little more hardy than the Foxtails. They are probably not a good longterm option here either, but it's worth a shot.

Here they are in March 2007 (with P. roebelenii):

[war_eagle]

And in October 2008:

[war_eagle]

Another October 2008:

[Big Tex]

I have 3 Foxtails with about 7' trunk that are planted out in the open. They have seen 28 (no frost) before without any protection and didn't blink an eye. The forecast for tonight here in south Houston is for light rain with sleet and snow flurries possible early, then partly cloudy skies and a low between 32 and 34. A low of 32-34 isn't going to hurt these guys, but IF it were to dop below freezing and some ice form on the fronds are we talking major damage to the foliage? Is it worth spending a half hour in the 35 degree rain to wrap them with xmas lights and frost cloth? And if so, would you just tie up and wrap the fronds and spear, or mummify the whole tree from gound up? Thanks for any help.

How did your foxtails do? Mine is so tall I just can't cover it anylonger. I Have the base area surrounded in hibiscus to that protectsmuch of the trunk pretty well. the trunk that is about four feet and higher I wrapped in a blue insulation all the way to the new spear. The fronds were unprotected. So far it came through with no problems. I did climb up on a ladder about a week ago and sprayed the fonds with that Anti-Stress 2000 so I feel that helped quite a bit. The bottom frond you see that looks dead is, it was aleady dropping off.

[ghar41]

Glenn, they do seem to love our hot, humid summers. I planted them in March 2007, so this is only their second winter. Last winter was very mild, it got down to 28 one night and between 30-32 only a handful of times. After several 9b-type winters here lately, I'm starting to see a lot of Foxtails around town, but it's just a matter of time before our string of mild winters runs out. In the great (or horrible) freezes of the 1950s and 1980s it got down to low teens and single digits here in Houston, so I have no doubt that Foxtails are not a good longterm option for this area. But, they are beautiful, relatively cheap, and fast growing trees. I will protect these as long as it's feasible and after that they are at the mercy of Mother Nature. I picked up a couple of A. cunninghamiana this fall, so it's good to hear that they are at least a little more hardy than the Foxtails. They are probably not a good longterm option here either, but it's worth a shot.

Sounds like great reasons to give Foxtails a try, they are attractive.

I'm not sure whether A. cunninghamiana is going to be "hardier" than the Foxtail for your area. It is much more tolerant of the extended 40F-60F degree winter high temperatures here.

You may find that Foxtails are "hardier" in your area because they like the number of hours/days above 60F (or 70F) you have. Even though mine always looked better than the A.C.'s a week after a major freeze, Foxtails "starve" by March in our cold (not freezing) temperatures here. It'll grow in your USDA 9a but not in my 9b, likely because your average winter temperatures are higher.

Keep us posted....It'll be interesting to see which one is hardier. Thanks,

[war_eagle]

BigTex, I uncovered them yesterday (the morning after our 'blizzard') and I cannot find any noticeable damage. The temperature inside the wrapping never went below 48, so I think they should be okay, but I won't really know for a couple of weeks I guess.

I was a little worried this morning because we had a very heavy frost on the ground and I had left the Foxtails uncovered. But, the frost only formed on the ground and the air temperature about 5 feet above the ground, where my outdoor thermometer is mounted, never went below 35.6. It's still fascinating to me that the temperature on the ground can be several degrees lower than the temperature just a few feet above the ground, but it happens during these radiational type frosts. The only casualties I have found so far are a few banana trees, which were purple/black this afternoon, and a few bell pepper plants that were left uncovered. Hopefully that's all the damage, but we'll just have to wait a few weeks to find out.

What about you, how did your Foxtail fare?