tall Acrocomia totai but young

[merrill]

Hi, Tala:

Kew has lumped all Acrocomia into aculeata, crispa, hassleri, and media. It would be fascinating if simple and bifid leaves were both found in any of the four.

Best Wishes,

merrill

[Alberto]

The A.totai variety (spiny trunk,little fruits) I saw in Rio grande do Sul,west of State Paraná and north of the state São Paulo. In Minas Gerais I saw the A. aculeata variety (with remnants of ....?on the trunks,bigger fruits)

[Tala]

well we know bifid leaves come out of aculeata, crispa and media (the one in P.R.) anyway. I would love to get my hands on some hassleri, Dr. Henderson infers they are bifid as well from PoA lit. I really think we are on to something with totai being a simple-leafed sdlg. Let's see if anyone else can show us some other sdlg-size Acrocomia here.

[edbrown_III]

The A.totai variety (spiny trunk,little fruits) I saw in Rio grande do Sul,west of State Paraná and north of the state São Paulo. In Minas Gerais I saw the A. aculeata variety (with remnants of ....?on the trunks,bigger fruits)

Alberto,

but what about the seedling leaves? are these consistently simple? I have a larger Acrocomia aculeata from zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz near Cuiba that has spiny trunk and smaller fruit but bifid leafs as seedling.

[tank]

Merrill,

Last time I was out at Russell Adam's place (in October), his Acrocomia was flowering. I think this was the first time that he noticed it flowering. Hopefully it will start producing fruit.

[merrill]

Hi, Jason:

Thanks for that info. Perhaps we can barter cycad hybrids w/ Russell. I'll call.

Best Wishes,

merrill

Edited November 26, 2008 by merrill

[edbrown_III]

Kelen,

Donde pais estan los Acrocomia totai vivan? ( Permisso, mi lengua espanol es rudimentario), Nosotros discussemos las folhas differencias en el link en main forum.

attentemente

Ed Brown

Dear Ed,

I have readed your discussion about the eophyll issue in the parallel english forum, in my experience germinating Acrocomia seeds (former A. totai in southeast Paraguay), this criterion is arguible to be a secure method to separate the "species ? or variations?", I noted that a small percentage (about 5 %) of seedlings eophyll are bifid even if all the seeds came from a single mother palm. For me the only way to distingish between the "species?" is to compare the trunks, A totai never have persistent leaf-bases attached to the trunk (as you see in the pictures above). The former A totai is extended from south of Brasil, Bolivia, Paraguay and north Argentina.

The Bailey´s work divide the Acrocomias "species?" in two kinds depending on this last criterion. I ignore if the others mencioned are really another species or just variations (A totai is highly variable in several aspects: leaves length and form, fruit size and colours, number and size of spines, head size, etc). I suspect there are just 2 o 3 differents species (previously described as A. totai, A. hassleri and A. sclerocarpa) highly variables and naturally adapted to its zones. Only more investigation in Acrocomia genetics will solve this dudes.

I suspect that several described Acrocomias are just A. totai introduced to another habitats (A. media, A. mexicana, all A. aculeata without persistent leafbases, including the Amazonic "mucajá"), there is good evidence that this palm was introduced gradually from south to north, upto Central America and Mexico in the past. Look at this article.

Pindo

no recibí aun noticias tuyas del email personal que te envié, lo recibiste?

Gastón de Córdoba

sos un poco ingrato conmigo, espero la respuesta a mi último email (de hace varios meses atrás), espero aunque sea una foto de las Acrocomias que resisten tan bajas temperaturas en Córdoba. Están fructificando y floreando en esta época como sucede aquí?

Saludos,

Eduardo.

Theres a parallel dialogue on the spanish language forum ,

Note they live in the habitat of these plants and see variation that we cant possibly see in Florida-- He talking about this variation of bifid vs single eophylls in A. totai --- sort of interesting perspective contra conventional wisdom of Central Florida folks. This offered to invite some lively debate--- I learn alot from Dave and others opinions talking about one of my favorite subjects.

Best regards

Ed

[gyuseppe]

acrocomia totai of 2 years.

[Tala]

I don't see how you can separate species on whether or not leaf bases fall off. I would hypothesize this is heavily influenced by various environmental factors, (rain, wind, or lack of, animals i.e. squirrels climb up & down mine as if the spines did not exist). I think you have to go on reproductive parts as main course of action, then look at overall habit. For instance totai palms are much smaller in all parts that what we see here as "typical" aculeata. Smaller fronds, stems, fruit & seed, plus the growth rate is slower than typical aculeata. There probably are much less species than what was listed in the old mono but more than what we are currently seeing: hassleri, crispa, aculeata, totai correct? Also I am enjoying this discussion and learning alot, many thanks to all participants. Keep it coming!

here is pic of my totai sdlgs. They are still sending up simple leaves. This the 1st time any have sprouted (waited 4 yrs), none have bifid leaves as yet. But many of them formed a 2nd and in one case a 3rd palm off the seed after I dug them up. You can observe this in the pic.

[Tala]

gyuseppe - I don't see any spines on your palm, are they present? They should be by now, lots of them. I do see a heel tho', they all have that.

[gyuseppe]

Yes! have this spine !, even if the photos are not seen,germination and duration 18 months,

[pindo]

Friends...A aculeata single and bifid seedlings

follow this link

http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?sh...mp;#entry275062

post 62

Regards

[Tala]

this not environmentally influenced, different species to be sure, we seem the same here in cen. Fl. From the an older thread I can't find the totai descrip. off an old monograph is what fit the simple leaf'd palms the best. Most likely totai will be officially resurrected, we just have to get the "right" botanist involved.

[pindo]

More pics....

http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?sh...mp;#entry280418