Rhopalostylis sapida

[Tropical Jeroen]

I have two small specimens of Rhopalostylis sapida and they are quite different. the plants are from the same age ( about 2,5 years old) and very different looking.

one has divided leaves of about 5 segments

the other one's leaves are still undivided and remain undivided.

can someone tell me if there are more variations within this species or not?

regards, jeroen

[Joe palma]

Jeroen,

There is a variant to sapida and it is called "Chatham Island" or "oceana".  I have seen some proport that there are others (Great barrier Island) but I don't know about them.

There is also a variant to the baueri and it is called "cheesemanii". Very awesome!

How many fronds on the undivided plant? Can you post a picture?

[Tropical Jeroen]

(Joe palma @ Mar. 06 2008,13:51)

QUOTE

Jeroen,

There is a variant to sapida and it is called "Chatham Island" or "oceana".  I have seen some proport that there are others (Great barrier Island) but I don't know about them.

There is also a variant to the baueri and it is called "cheesemanii". Very awesome!

How many fronds on the undivided plant? Can you post a picture?

Yes, i also have a small Rhopalostylis cheesemannii.

more robust than sapida.

regards, jeroen

[quaman58]

Jeroen,

I posted a similar question a couple years back, after I had obtained R. sapida "Little Barrier Island". It has a distinct "heel", unlike my others. A very informative New Zealander replied and explained in some detail that R. Sapida is one of those species that varys a lot from plant to plant. I got the feeling that regardless of area of origin, it can disply markedly different size and form.

Bret

[osideterry]

At Clarke's place I saw mature Chatham Island types alongside regular R. sapida and R. bauri. Chatham looks almost as much like bauri to me. More spread out, and not so bulbous crownshaft.

Anyone else seen mature Chatham Island rhopies that would comment?

[Tropical Jeroen]

i have never seen a mature one.....

[Joe palma]

Pogobob (Robert DeJong, San Clemente, CA, USA) has a mature one in his yard that is awesome. Several clear feet of trunk (don't remember how much exactly) and is producing viable seed. If you go by that one, it has a very bulbous crownshaft, larger than most sapida I have seen (which is larger than baueri).

Maybe Palmzilla (Braden, Bob's son) can post a pic of the beauty! Others, Deezpalms or BS, might have a shot of it as well.

Here is the pic (several months old)  of the one I have, but mine has no crownshaft yet!

before planting

in ground

[Pivi]

Can someone please post an image of seed that is starting to germinate?

[DippyD]

yo joe...when you gonna sale me some of your 15 gallons?????

[Joe palma]

Hopefully soon Brett!  

Petar,

I have some of these Chatham Is. seeds sprouting for me recently. I will post a pic later.

[DippyD]

do you have 15 gal available or are all yours seedlings still? what price range are we looking at lets talk and make some deals im eger to start planting up the back yard.

brett

[Pivi]

(Joe palma @ Mar. 07 2008,01:05)

QUOTE

Petar,

I have some of these Chatham Is. seeds sprouting for me recently. I will post a pic later.

Thanks Brett

[Palm Hound]

I think the Chatham Is or Oceana was reportedly faster growing.

[joe_OC]

Don't know what form of R. Sapida mines is, but I am sure luvin it...

[malcthomas]

As a New Zealander, I always marvel at the photographs of Nikau grown outside their country of origin. They are beautiful.  Here, and in particular mine, are tatty and ratty and apart from the newest leaves, browned off.  I guess it is because they are being grown in a  country not reciveing 'the roaring 40's' (winds) nor have the mite causing all the browned leaflet ends.  

The bifid leaves of a seedling are quite distinctive between sapida and baueri/cheesemanii.  Sapida being much finer and a deeper, glossy green.

As for the Chatham/Pitt Islands sapida being called 'Oceana'....this is purely a commercial name.  These were also being marketed because of their pink petioles in older junvenile plants.  There may be an element of truth in this but a lot depends on growing conditions.  I took photographs one year of petiole colour of Chattham, Kermadec and main land sapida (growing on my property) that all had pink petioles for comparison and no one was able to identify them apart based on colour.  

When your seedlings get a little older, petiole colour is quite distintinctive between sapida and baueri.  Baueri being very brown...sapida green.  Baueri and Cheesemanii also have much longer petioles in seedlings and juvenile trees than sapida.  Petioles shorten with maturity...

cheers...Malcolm

[malcthomas]

Pivi

Is this what you were looking for.

I have found that a palm that germinates adjacently like Rhopalostylis/Archontophoenix etc will have bifid leaves as opposed to a remote germinator that will have a strap/entire/undivided first leaf.   Can any botanist comment on this?

cheers...Malcom

[malcthomas]

Jeroen

In light of my above post, all Rhopalostylis, no matter what species or form have bifid leaves.  I would suspect that you have a rogue seedling.  Is there still a seed attached?  If it is infact a Nikau, it would have germinated adjacently.  

cheers...Malcolm

[Gary]

chatham island seedlings are almost the same as cheesemannii but never seen any reddish colour in first couple of leaves on chathams as you often do on cheesemannii.Chatham seedling leaves are darker green and wider leaflets than other forms of sapida.I supply the seeds of these to Tobias Spanner so if origin is him I could tell you more if it was area named.

 Gary

[Tyrone]

Malcolm, I have a couple of Rhopies that have almost black petioles. What are these meant to be in your opinion. I bought them as "feather duster palms". Don't you love nurseries that don't know what they're selling.

Gary, I've got some Chathams that I grew from seed from RPS. Are they wild collected ones? Do you have a pic of a Chatham adult? Just wondering.

Best regards

Tyrone

[osideterry]

From Joe's photos it looks like the Chatham Isalnd type does have more of a spread out shape than the formal shuttlecock shape of the regular sapida. It also has a longer petiole length, which is more like a baerii.

joe_OC - That is the most pefect R. sapida I've ever seen. What size pot is that?

[joe_OC]

Thanks, Terry...

It's in a 15 and have to admit that I felt the  same way about it.

[DippyD]

how long does it take to germinate these little seeds? and what do you feel the best way to go about it? ???

[Jason Baker Portugal]

I have sapida seeds from malcom. The leaves are finer and it is slower growing than the oceana seedlings I have. Oceanas leaves are wider looking more like a howeas leaves in width. I find oceana more interesting looking. Jason

[Gary]

Tyrone-the seeds from Tobias are wild collected off Pitt Island which is another island in the chatham group.It may vary a little in appearance island to island but still is a sapida from this group of islands.Rhopalostylis forms differ greatly with every area form of them,and much depends on light and growing conditions.I have them wild in my back yard growing in a saltwater creek and in other places with full sun and little moisture ,so 2different looking palms.You can found pic of various area forms on my yahoogroup nzpalmcycad or on nz palm society official website

Gary

[malcthomas]

Tyrone...

In my opinion, dark brown almost black is the Norfok Island Nikau (baueri)...These will have quite long petioles compared with the Chatham Island/Mainland R.sapida.

Long petioles is certainly an indicator that the plant is not sapida but as mentioned, at maturity there is no such distinction between sapida and baueri/cheesemanii in the length of their petiole.

cheers...Malcolm.

[Tyrone]

(malcthomas @ Mar. 13 2008,19:46)

QUOTE

Tyrone...

In my opinion, dark brown almost black is the Norfok Island Nikau (baueri)...These will have quite long petioles compared with the Chatham Island/Mainland R.sapida.

Long petioles is certainly an indicator that the plant is not sapida but as mentioned, at maturity there is no such distinction between sapida and baueri/cheesemanii in the length of their petiole.

cheers...Malcolm.

Thanks Malcolm. These are a really black colour. Real nice. Will post pics soon.

Best regards

Tyrone

[surferjr]

In my opinion they're are many different types of Rhopalostylis...may be 8 or more, I own  5 different ones...in the wild you can see them as they're different in the groves on the beaches in the fields and rivers??, maybe they hybride easy not sure.  But these are one of the best tropical looking palms for cold temps....when they get big few palms can match, as they always look good.  I have 100+ in my yards, just in case we get a really bad freeze!!  

Maybe someone can post Phil Morgans Chatman island, we all think, MONSTER! ???

[Palmzilla]

did someone say chatham island? Here is a shot of the beast a few days back. This pic dosen't give this palm the justice it deserves, it's way fatter in person, looks constanly pregnant like a male seahorse...stay tuned for more shots...i'll try to capture the fatty better mananna

[Palmzilla]

here is an update. Night shot. Look at the red seeds....anyone interested????

[Palmzilla]

una mas

[Tyrone]

Palmzilla, I know how big those seeds are. That's a monster Rhopie. Well done.

Best regards

Tyrone

[DippyD]

that rhop looks great...hope i can get some seeds or seedlings when you have them availble