Jubaea Chilensis in AZ?

[ahosey01]

Hey guys,

 

Been monitoring the temps in the yard since moving to this new place in Wickenburg.  One thing is for sure - at the bottom of the valley I am, the diurnal temperature variation is wild.  We will have 110+ in the summer with a < 60 degree overnight low.  We're still in the 70's and even low 80's in the daytime, but we've hit 27 and 29 briefly overnight.  I have protected nothing and for whatever reason, my more cold-intolerant plants don't seem to care.  I have an Aloe marlothii, Aloe vaombe, Rhapis excelsa, and Pachycereus schotii that haven't flinched.  Those lows were a couple weeks back now.

Anyways - I wanted to try Jubaea chilensis.  I've heard they don't do well down in Phoenix because they can't take months of desert/urban heat.  However, I've read conflicting reports - including a guy who said he grew a couple in Rancho Mirage, CA.  Regardless, I have a feeling they may do well given the wild overnight lows we have here during the summer.  It's a nice daily 10+ hour break from the Sonoran desert heat.

Any thoughts?  Let me know!

[Fallen Munk]

The heat might be ok if you can keep it watered.  Ideally they love Mediterranean climate with cool wet winters and dry hot summers.  Mine do great here in Oregon, not sure I'd try it where saguaro cacti grow.

[necturus]

No idea about the Jubaea. Be careful with the Aloe vaombe. It will die in the low 20s.

[Mr.SamuraiSword]

5 hours ago, ahosey01 said:

Hey guys,

 

Been monitoring the temps in the yard since moving to this new place in Wickenburg.  One thing is for sure - at the bottom of the valley I am, the diurnal temperature variation is wild.  We will have 110+ in the summer with a < 60 degree overnight low.  We're still in the 70's and even low 80's in the daytime, but we've hit 27 and 29 briefly overnight.  I have protected nothing and for whatever reason, my more cold-intolerant plants don't seem to care.  I have an Aloe marlothii, Aloe vaombe, Rhapis excelsa, and Pachycereus schotii that haven't flinched.  Those lows were a couple weeks back now.

Anyways - I wanted to try Jubaea chilensis.  I've heard they don't do well down in Phoenix because they can't take months of desert/urban heat.  However, I've read conflicting reports - including a guy who said he grew a couple in Rancho Mirage, CA.  Regardless, I have a feeling they may do well given the wild overnight lows we have here during the summer.  It's a nice daily 10+ hour break from the Sonoran desert heat.

Any thoughts?  Let me know!

There is a guy who has a few near south mountain in Phoenix, they need lots of water, and tend to have some frond burn in the summer sun.  

[ahosey01]

2 hours ago, necturus said:

No idea about the Jubaea. Be careful with the Aloe vaombe. It will die in the low 20s.

Yeah, I use the tried-and-true winter protection method of crossed fingers. Works sometimes, others not.

[necturus]

Trust me, I've done the same and killed a huge number of plants as "experiments", including Aloe vaombe. Here we often go five or even ten years without getting that low, but when we did, adios. The plant was right beside the southside of the house as well. 

Aloe marlothii and ferox are proven winners for me - survived twenty degrees with a frost cloth and only mild damage to the tips of leaves. I have a lot of Aloe "experiments" going on right now. Aloe striatula is another great proven winner.

[Fallen Munk]

13 hours ago, Mr.SamuraiSword said:

There is a guy who has a few near south mountain in Phoenix, they need lots of water, and tend to have some frond burn in the summer sun.  

It's alive but looks like it is suffering for sure.   I imagine the growth rate is next to nil in that heat.

[Austinpalm]

19 hours ago, ahosey01 said:

Anyways - I wanted to try Jubaea chilensis.  I've heard they don't do well down in Phoenix because they can't take months of desert/urban heat.  However, I've read conflicting reports - including a guy who said he grew a couple in Rancho Mirage, CA.  Regardless, I have a feeling they may do well given the wild overnight lows we have here during the summer.  It's a nice daily 10+ hour break from the Sonoran desert heat.

Any thoughts?  Let me know!

So long as you are wanting more of a "look what I am able to keep alive" vs. "big specimen palm to show off" go for it.  Find at least a 10 gallon sized plant and put it in some shade and keep watered.  I was able to do that in Austin.  Highest high temps not as high as yours I'm sure, but I expect the night time lows and humidity are higher for most of the year.  It never grew fast, but it did grow.  Maybe 1-2 fronds a year.  I never worried about it in the wintertime, only the summer.  I expect that will be your time of most concern.  Just get a good sized one and plant it about this time of the year, so it will have a while to get established before dealing with next summer. Good luck!

[Mr.SamuraiSword]

7 hours ago, Fallen Munk said:

It's alive but looks like it is suffering for sure.   I imagine the growth rate is next to nil in that heat.

Theres four of them and apparently they are quite stagnant in growth, there was five apparently but one was killed by rats or bugs

[Fallen Munk]

17 minutes ago, Mr.SamuraiSword said:

Theres four of them and apparently they are quite stagnant in growth, there was five apparently but one was killed by rats or bugs

As if they don't grow slow enough in an ideal environment...

[EastCanadaTropicals]

Maybe in the shade they'll be okay

 

 

[EastCanadaTropicals]

In the shade in the coolest microclimate they might work but in the colder parts of Arizona, They have to put it in a warm microclimate

Edited December 8, 2020 by EastCanadaTropicals

[Matt N- Dallas]

There are several in Austin and Dallas growing in part & full sun that have been growing fine w/ adequate summer water.  I have one in central Dallas that has been growing since 2003- I get about six leaves a year.  

[ahosey01]

5 minutes ago, Matt N- Dallas said:

There are several in Austin and Dallas growing in part & full sun that have been growing fine w/ adequate summer water.  I have one in central Dallas that has been growing since 2003- I get about six leaves a year.  

Can I see pictures??

[Fallen Munk]

15 minutes ago, Matt N- Dallas said:

There are several in Austin and Dallas growing in part & full sun that have been growing fine w/ adequate summer water.  I have one in central Dallas that has been growing since 2003- I get about six leaves a year.  

That must be getting massive by now.  Do you have photos?

[Matt N- Dallas]

I haven’t taken any recent pics. It was planted as a 3 gal size plant, so it’s not massive as they are slow growing.  It’s slow pace has picked up in the last three years since the trunk has fattened up.  Here it is pictured in 2015 in Dallas z8b: 

 

[Matt N- Dallas]

There were several very large jubaeas transported to Dallas from CA in 2010 by the owner of the Dallas World aquarium.  Here’s a thread on the one planted at the aquarium:

https://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?/topic/26368-is-anyone-missing-a-jubaea-in-california/#

 

[Fallen Munk]

11 hours ago, Matt N- Dallas said:

I haven’t taken any recent pics. It was planted as a 3 gal size plant, so it’s not massive as they are slow growing.  It’s slow pace has picked up in the last three years since the trunk has fattened up.  Here it is pictured in 2015 in Dallas z8b: 

Looks nice!  Hoping mine looks close to that after next growing season.  Mine is first year in the ground and it's just creeping along so far.

[ahosey01]

1 hour ago, Fallen Munk said:

Looks nice!  Hoping mine looks close to that after next growing season.  Mine is first year in the ground and it's just creeping along so far.

I've got a nice spot that is mostly bright shade - save for a couple hours a day - which I think would work well for this palm.

Can't wait for a new leaf to push out every 6 months!  LOL.

[Fallen Munk]

6 minutes ago, ahosey01 said:

I've got a nice spot that is mostly bright shade - save for a couple hours a day - which I think would work well for this palm.

Can't wait for a new leaf to push out every 6 months!  LOL.

I haven't been counting how many fronds mine grew this year from when I planted it in the spring.  Seems like it's barely growing until I look at photos to compare.  It was a pot bound 5 gallon.

[LivistonaFan]

11 minutes ago, Fallen Munk said:

I haven't been counting how many fronds mine grew this year from when I planted it in the spring.  Seems like it's barely growing until I look at photos to compare.  It was a pot bound 5 gallon.

 

 

We should compare the growth rates of our Jubaeas over the next years. If I am correct, you are located at 44-45°N, 150 ft altitude and I am located at 43-44°N, 1450 ft altitude.

Both locations have a warm Mediterranean climate (Csb). Main differences are that your summer night temperatures are quite a bit lower as well as your winter record lows. Average high temperatures are almost identical.  My plant (planted in late summer 2018) might be slightly bigger than yours for now, but it doesn't get any additional irrigation at all whereas yours presumably does? Due to major drought stress in summer and some workers cutting 11 green leafs in total during the last two years it almost looks like my Jubaea has grown backwards.

(photo was taken on September 28th, 2020)

(photo was taken on October 30th, 2020)

[Fallen Munk]

20 minutes ago, LivistonaFan said:

 

We should compare the growth rates of our Jubaeas over the next years. If I am correct, you are located at 44-45°N, 150 ft altitude and I am located at 43-44°N, 1450 ft altitude.

Both locations have a warm Mediterranean climate (Csb). Main differences are that your summer night temperatures are quite a bit lower as well as your winter record lows. Average high temperatures are almost identical.  My plant (planted in late summer 2018) might be slightly bigger than yours for now, but it doesn't get any additional irrigation at all whereas yours presumably does? Due to major drought stress in summer and some workers cutting 11 green leafs in total during the last two years it almost looks like my Jubaea has grown backwards.

Sounds like a plan.  Probably the biggest difference I can see is one you already mentioned, irrigation.  I water the heck out of mine in the summer.  Meaning I don't let it dry out at all.  And then we get heavy rain during fall, winter, and spring.  From my research, these love water, just like Trachycarpus, as long as it drains.  I water them just like my Trachy's.  My soil is sandy loam on top because of raised beds, but almost pure clay below that. 

[necturus]

I'd like to try one in Houston. Anyone in Texas ever seen these for sale? Or does Patric sell pure Jubaea?

[Fusca]

3 hours ago, necturus said:

I'd like to try one in Houston. Anyone in Texas ever seen these for sale? Or does Patric sell pure Jubaea?

Joseph sells them.  The only other time I've seen one for sale at a nursery in Austin a couple of years ago (The Great Outdoors).  They had a large 15-gal for $200.  They don't always have the same inventory for palms but they often sell unique palms.

[necturus]

Yeah, I have definitely never seen them at The Great Outdoors, and I usually visit few times a year. But I agree, they get a lot of interesting and random stuff from time to time. 

[Matt N- Dallas]

Patric has sold them in the past.  I don’t know what his current availability is.  

[LivistonaFan]

 

12 hours ago, LivistonaFan said:

 

 Sorry, the second photo is actually from October 30th, 2018. 

That really shows the poor evolution. It definitely has less leafs now than in 2018, but at least the base got a bit wider. Astonishingly, the Livistona chinensis behind it (planted the same week) seems to be better established.

12 hours ago, Fallen Munk said:

Sounds like a plan.  Probably the biggest difference I can see is one you already mentioned, irrigation.  I water the heck out of mine in the summer.  Meaning I don't let it dry out at all.  And then we get heavy rain during fall, winter, and spring.  From my research, these love water, just like Trachycarpus, as long as it drains.  I water them just like my Trachy's.  My soil is sandy loam on top because of raised beds, but almost pure clay below that. 

Indeed, that would be the biggest difference. I have roughly measured the leaf growth of my Jubaea: From early November 2019 to mid June 2020 it has grown ~2.5 leafs and from mid June to early September (which should be its main period of growth) it hasn't even pushed a spear fully out. When I saw it again in September, the newest spear even looked a little dry, whereas all my other palms looked good. I hope that it just needs a little more time to establish and then will grow considerably faster in the near future. 

 

 

[Fallen Munk]

9 hours ago, LivistonaFan said:

 

Indeed, that would be the biggest difference. I have roughly measured the leaf growth of my Jubaea: From early November 2019 to mid June 2020 it has grown ~2.5 leafs and from mid June to early September (which should be its main period of growth) it hasn't even pushed a spear fully out. When I saw it again in September, the newest spear even looked a little dry, whereas all my other palms looked good. I hope that it just needs a little more time to establish and then will grow considerably faster in the near future. 

I'll have to start counting new fronds next year.  I think mine pushed out four from May to September.  So one per month and it was fresh in the ground in May so I'm hoping for at least that next season when the roots go deep.  I also fertilized the heck out of it.  Slow release palm fertilizer, plus straight ammonium sulfate for pure nitrogen.

[SailorBold]

On 12/6/2020 at 1:26 PM, ahosey01 said:

Hey guys,

 

Been monitoring the temps in the yard since moving to this new place in Wickenburg.  One thing is for sure - at the bottom of the valley I am, the diurnal temperature variation is wild.  We will have 110+ in the summer with a < 60 degree overnight low.  We're still in the 70's and even low 80's in the daytime, but we've hit 27 and 29 briefly overnight.  I have protected nothing and for whatever reason, my more cold-intolerant plants don't seem to care.  I have an Aloe marlothii, Aloe vaombe, Rhapis excelsa, and Pachycereus schotii that haven't flinched.  Those lows were a couple weeks back now.

Anyways - I wanted to try Jubaea chilensis.  I've heard they don't do well down in Phoenix because they can't take months of desert/urban heat.  However, I've read conflicting reports - including a guy who said he grew a couple in Rancho Mirage, CA.  Regardless, I have a feeling they may do well given the wild overnight lows we have here during the summer.  It's a nice daily 10+ hour break from the Sonoran desert heat.

Any thoughts?  Let me know!

The only experience I can add is from observing my Jubaea x Butia F3 hybrid..  The dry heat doesn't bother it at all.. neither does the alkaline water (pH around 7.8-8.0)  For me.. butia doesnt like the water (im thinking) maybe heat is a slight factor as well.. but I cant say for sure.  Well what Im saying is.. the Jubaea blood is doing pretty well here.. definitely not as hot as where you are.. but we had 100+ days of 90f  ~25 days of 100..   I do water it everyday tho via drip irrigation- so maybe constant consistent moisture is the key..  Go for it!

Edited December 14, 2020 by SailorBold

[Matt N- Dallas]

Here’s a couple growing in Dallas z8b

[DallasPalms]

Any idea about how that one held up through Uri? Since we are fairly hot with 'some' winter (we are actually 8a the last few years in Dallas) Does the more hot climate affect Jubaea cold hardiness?

My first Jubaea seeds just popped I hope to have some growing trunk in a few years

On 12/14/2020 at 9:23 AM, Matt N- Dallas said:

Here’s a couple growing in Dallas z8b

 

Edited October 8, 2021 by DallasPalms

[OC2Texaspalmlvr]

@Matt N- Dallas Damn I could only wish for a Jubaea that size what a beautiful specimen

T J