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louisrui

Arenga ryukyunensis

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louisrui

Hi,

I'm new to this forum. My name is Louis and I live in Japan, 9a.

I lived in Okinawa (Ryu-kyu new name) for 1 year (11a). I brought back some plants, including Arenga ryukyunensis.

I heard that the most close palm is Arenga engleri, which is cold hardy to -6 degrees Celcius. Would someone know

if it would be reasonable to think that Arenga ryukyunensis is also cold hardy to -6C?

I attached a pic of my palm.

Thanks for your help,

Louis

post-7623-0-05426700-1364193607_thumb.jp

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Kailua_Krish

Here in Florida it is thought that Ryukyuensis is more cold tolerant than Engleri by a few degrees. If your climate is 9a then it should be fine, I have these planted all over my yard (though most are still small) and I live in 9a too. They need overhead canopy though or some way to keep frost off.

-Krishna

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Cindy Adair

Welcome! To my knowledge, no one in Virginia (8b on the coast) grows this palm outside.

Great to hear from you across the world from a country I've never had the privilege of visiting.

Palmtalk has been very helpful to me and I've met many nice folks, both online and in person at the last Biennial in Thailand.

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louisrui

Thanks you for your quick answers!

@Krishna: I should have brought back much more specimens then ... I have only one of them and I'm affraid to loose it :D Only small trees in the garden too!

@Apaandssa: Thanks for your welcome :D Happy to know you too! I have never been to Virginia either ^^ Palm enthusiasts Biennial in Thailand must be a great meeting to attend!

Louis

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Shirleypalmpaws

Louis, welcome to Palmtalk, and thank you for posting about your special palm. I wasn't here when it happened, but back in the winter of 1989, a super duper horribly terrible cold event took place in Florida. Eric from Orlando wrote a very good report (click here for source of quote*),

"yes, we have both forms here at Leu Gardens. The Ryukuy form gets 5-6ft tall and flowers, while the Taiwan form gets 10-12ft. The last time it was cold enough to damage these palms was the big 12/89 freeze. The records show that the Ryukyu form had some minor burn but the Taiwan form had severe burn and some stems were killed."

*Hoping that link works---here it is again, just in case, and scroll down for it: http://50.57.99.44/forum3/viewtopic.php?t=3377

CFPACS - View topic - Arenga ryukyuensis,new species,formerly a ...

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gyuseppe
last year we had - 4 degrees celsius,is also a bit of snow
Arenga micrantha ,Arenga engleri, Arenga ryukyunensis : no sign of suffering ,leaf intact !
phoenix rupicola leaf all burned
  • Upvote 1

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louisrui

Krishna, would you have some pictures of your garden? I'm really curious to have a look on how you arranged the Arengas ^^

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louisrui

Thanks you Threepointtwowhites and Gyuseppe!

Do you think it could stand -10 for some hours?

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Shirleypalmpaws

Louis, I don't know the answer but betting that someone will know how many hours the '89 big freeze lasted. I love your palm! :wub: ---Shirley

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Brahea Axel

There are healthy large washingtonia in Yokohama south of Tokyo, so I can't imagine that you, being further south, could not grow the arengas. Especially with the hot and humid Japanese Summers, arenga should thrive for you.

I did look up the averages for Nara, and with the average low being -1C during the Winter, it usually means the extremes will be more like -5C, and you may need to protect your arengas during cold spells. Especially given the terrain around Nara, the city looks like it sits in a bowl where cold air drainage is probably responsible for the rather chilly lows. I would bet that up in the hills around Nara it's a lot milder at night, and you could grow all sorts of things. Especially since your Winters are drier than the Summers. In fact, further East towards Osaka, the average low is 1C instead of -1C, so there does seem to be quite a difference in terms of microclimates.

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louisrui

@ Thanks Shirley, I'm transmitting the love to my palm ;D

@ Axel, Thanks for your research, I feel sorry I had you searching so much for me :D Actually I live in Nara prefecture, but up in the mountains on the far east of the province (奈良県吉隠 for google map). In Nara city they have almost a 10a, and 80km south they have a real 10a (Monstera, king Palm etc) and 10b but only on the shore: there is a warm marine flow coming from the south, and it's like that all over Pacific coast, that's why Yokohama and some part of Tokyo are hotter than here, even if they are some hundred km north! It's full of micoclimates, you are right. Summers are really tropical, and everything grow crazy (for my best pleasure :).

I have a Phoenix Canariensis doing very well in the garden, it's only 3 years though, but it has not been burned at all during the winter.

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gyuseppe
Hello Louis
if your Phoenix canariensis was not burned,you can grow many species of palm trees!
  • Upvote 1

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louisrui

Is there a place I could find a list of those palm?

Actually I bought it as Phoenix canariensis and it seems to be one, might have to take some pic and have it identified :D

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Kailua_Krish

Krishna, would you have some pictures of your garden? I'm really curious to have a look on how you arranged the Arengas ^^

There are some old photos in a thread somewhere on here but I dont have any recent ones and its changed quite a bit. I'll try to get some when I'm back home from school next month. Even with the photos theyre not all that large so they may be less than impressive. What Ive used them for in the landscape is in a mixed border with other tropicals (Philodendron selloum, Chamaeadorea microspadix, Gingers, bamboo, ect) to screen out my neighbors house. Ive also mixed them in with other large planting beds to add a large tropical accent (once they grow of course).

-Krishna

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Kailua_Krish

@ Thanks Shirley, I'm transmitting the love to my palm ;D

@ Axel, Thanks for your research, I feel sorry I had you searching so much for me :D Actually I live in Nara prefecture, but up in the mountains on the far east of the province (奈良県吉隠 for google map). In Nara city they have almost a 10a, and 80km south they have a real 10a (Monstera, king Palm etc) and 10b but only on the shore: there is a warm marine flow coming from the south, and it's like that all over Pacific coast, that's why Yokohama and some part of Tokyo are hotter than here, even if they are some hundred km north! It's full of micoclimates, you are right. Summers are really tropical, and everything grow crazy (for my best pleasure :).

I have a Phoenix Canariensis doing very well in the garden, it's only 3 years though, but it has not been burned at all during the winter.

This may help some

http://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?/topic/36128-help-selecting-palms-in-9a-fl/

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louisrui

Thank you much Krishna for the explanations!

Too bad I can't keep the Philodendron, because it really has a tropical look (Well I'd prefer the Monstera but ..).

Chamaeadorea microspadix are beautiful too!

I have got a beautifull Raphis excelsa variegated on my terrace,

covered by a plastic roof and the winds.

I keep it outside all the time but it is a really slow grower.

Instead of the Philodendron I use the Fatsia japonica which grow naturally here in the jungle to give some lushy aspect ^^

Louis

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Kailua_Krish

Any reason you can't grow the philodendron? They are hardy in a 9a climate

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louisrui

I tried once, maybe it was not a pure Philodendrum selloum, but the leaves turned yellow then it died. I have no canopy at all. It dies at -3'C, doesn't it?

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Kailua_Krish

I tried once, maybe it was not a pure Philodendrum selloum, but the leaves turned yellow then it died. I have no canopy at all. It dies at -3'C, doesn't it?

Thats interesting, maybe the variety you have there isnt as hardy as the one we have here in Florida. With even a small amount of canopy they have tolerated colder than that. The trunks will die when you get much below -7C but there is a variety called 'Hope' that is grown in much colder climates as a die-back perennial

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Alicehunter2000

Welcome Louisrui, You will find this website very beneficial for not only palms but for other tropical looking plants as well. There are quite a few of us that have a similar (9a) climate. My new yard is about to become a nice test area for zone pushing and will be growing many of the things that would also work for you.

I have a small A. engleri that will be put in the ground this summer about the size of your Arenga. Unfortunately, from the research, I have worries that Arenga does not do well in a coastal environment (doesn't like salt air). Again, Welcome to Palmtalk.

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Phoenikakias

Welcome Louisrui, You will find this website very beneficial for not only palms but for other tropical looking plants as well. There are quite a few of us that have a similar (9a) climate. My new yard is about to become a nice test area for zone pushing and will be growing many of the things that would also work for you.

I have a small A. engleri that will be put in the ground this summer about the size of your Arenga. Unfortunately, from the research, I have worries that Arenga does not do well in a coastal environment (doesn't like salt air). Again, Welcome to Palmtalk.

How much salt in the air is the crucial question. If the palnt is going to be placed right next to seashore I have not a clue, but 200 m inland mine looks OK and it prospers. Another potted specimen few dozen meters away from coast seems to do fine.

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louisrui

Hi AliceHunter2000! Thanks for your welcome message.

Actually in Okinawa where the Arenga ryukyunensis is originated from, there is a lot of salt brought by the numerous Typhoon.

(I moved back here, abandoning a 12a for a 9a because of the typhoons)

I never spotted any mark of damage on a palm, though they are always under another tree, which might prevent the SALT+UV destructive combo?

I have spotted some near the shore.

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Alicehunter2000

Well that is welcome news about A. engleri, I really want to be able to grow one but was afraid that it wouldn't like the coastal conditions. I am a bit back from the coast approx. 200 meters and at 10 meters elevation so maybe it will not be too detrimental. When you are 9a ...you are really limited as to what pinnate palms can grow.

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louisrui

Yes, I'd love to have many more palms ... but well :P I tried to move into a tropical Island but the narrowness got on my nerves... so I stick with my 9a.

I'd say that even inside my house it's around 10a because of the bad insulation of Japanese traditional houses.

@AliceHunter2000, what else do you grow like pinnate palms?

@ Hi Hammer ^^

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Alicehunter2000

Butia species are the standard for around here, there is one in just about every yard. Syagrus romanzoffiana is starting to be more popular here, however, they are marginal. Luckily they grow very fast. Hybrids between the two or "mule palms" are becoming more and more available and are a great choice. There are several other cocoid hybrids as well. We have several hybridizers on Palmtalk who sell them.

Of course Phoenix species palms.....I particularily like P. roeb. hybrids, they have a softer look than some of the larger species. Phoenix canariensis P. sylvestris are two commonly planted palms....P. dact. (medjool) is another.

I will be trying C. microspadix trunking form and Dypsis decipiens which are the only two crownshafted palms that might grow here.

C. radicalis is a small attractive palm.

Would love to try Rhopalostylis sapida but it will most likely be to hot and humid for them.....same with Parajubaea sunkha.

Attalea cohune might be worth a try....if you have room.

If you don't mind spines, you could try an Acrocromia species.

If you live in a very dry 9a such as parts of California....there are many more that you could try. Unfortunately, I live where the winters can be cold and wet and with frost

There may be some others that I am forgetting....but if you live in 9a....you might want to really start liking palmate palms.

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Kailua_Krish

Butia species are the standard for around here, there is one in just about every yard. Syagrus romanzoffiana is starting to be more popular here, however, they are marginal. Luckily they grow very fast. Hybrids between the two or "mule palms" are becoming more and more available and are a great choice. There are several other cocoid hybrids as well. We have several hybridizers on Palmtalk who sell them.

Of course Phoenix species palms.....I particularily like P. roeb. hybrids, they have a softer look than some of the larger species. Phoenix canariensis P. sylvestris are two commonly planted palms....P. dact. (medjool) is another.

I will be trying C. microspadix trunking form and Dypsis decipiens which are the only two crownshafted palms that might grow here.

C. radicalis is a small attractive palm.

Would love to try Rhopalostylis sapida but it will most likely be to hot and humid for them.....same with Parajubaea sunkha.

Attalea cohune might be worth a try....if you have room.

If you don't mind spines, you could try an Acrocromia species.

If you live in a very dry 9a such as parts of California....there are many more that you could try. Unfortunately, I live where the winters can be cold and wet and with frost

There may be some others that I am forgetting....but if you live in 9a....you might want to really start liking palmate palms.

You may want to give it a go with a small P. sunkha. Mine is still growing strong (I think I've had it about 4-5 yrs now) but it grows much more slowly in our climate. It never looks bad though!

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Phoenikakias

Butia species are the standard for around here, there is one in just about every yard. Syagrus romanzoffiana is starting to be more popular here, however, they are marginal. Luckily they grow very fast. Hybrids between the two or "mule palms" are becoming more and more available and are a great choice. There are several other cocoid hybrids as well. We have several hybridizers on Palmtalk who sell them.

Of course Phoenix species palms.....I particularily like P. roeb. hybrids, they have a softer look than some of the larger species. Phoenix canariensis P. sylvestris are two commonly planted palms....P. dact. (medjool) is another.

I will be trying C. microspadix trunking form and Dypsis decipiens which are the only two crownshafted palms that might grow here.

C. radicalis is a small attractive palm.

Would love to try Rhopalostylis sapida but it will most likely be to hot and humid for them.....same with Parajubaea sunkha.

Attalea cohune might be worth a try....if you have room.

If you don't mind spines, you could try an Acrocromia species.

If you live in a very dry 9a such as parts of California....there are many more that you could try. Unfortunately, I live where the winters can be cold and wet and with frost

There may be some others that I am forgetting....but if you live in 9a....you might want to really start liking palmate palms.

I second that :winkie: ! Why on heck are so many available cold hardy palmate genera and so few pinnate? :badday:

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Alicehunter2000

I forgot one......Allagoptera arenaria.

Yes Phoeny, it sucks not to have the choices that those in just a slightly warmer climate have....if only I were living in 9b...lol.

Krishna...really! I didn't know anyone was successfully growing these in Florida....will definitely give it a go.

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Kailua_Krish

I forgot one......Allagoptera arenaria.

Yes Phoeny, it sucks not to have the choices that those in just a slightly warmer climate have....if only I were living in 9b...lol.

Krishna...really! I didn't know anyone was successfully growing these in Florida....will definitely give it a go.

Yeah, the one in Leu gardens looks nice too, it's about 2-3 years older than mine I think. They are about as slow as a D. Decepiens though for me. They rapidly grow from strap to pinnate but slow down quite a bit then. I maybe get 4 leaves a year but its been fine through drought and heavy rainy seasons. I planted mine in a mix of sand and limestone rocks but have no idea if this is necessary.

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Phoenikakias

I forgot one......Allagoptera arenaria.

Yes Phoeny, it sucks not to have the choices that those in just a slightly warmer climate have....if only I were living in 9b...lol.

Krishna...really! I didn't know anyone was successfully growing these in Florida....will definitely give it a go.

Yeah, the one in Leu gardens looks nice too, it's about 2-3 years older than mine I think. They are about as slow as a D. Decepiens though for me. They rapidly grow from strap to pinnate but slow down quite a bit then. I maybe get 4 leaves a year but its been fine through drought and heavy rainy seasons. I planted mine in a mix of sand and limestone rocks but have no idea if this is necessary.

Maybe this way plant will be forced to root steadier.

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Kailua_Krish

I forgot one......Allagoptera arenaria.

Yes Phoeny, it sucks not to have the choices that those in just a slightly warmer climate have....if only I were living in 9b...lol.

Krishna...really! I didn't know anyone was successfully growing these in Florida....will definitely give it a go.

Yeah, the one in Leu gardens looks nice too, it's about 2-3 years older than mine I think. They are about as slow as a D. Decepiens though for me. They rapidly grow from strap to pinnate but slow down quite a bit then. I maybe get 4 leaves a year but its been fine through drought and heavy rainy seasons. I planted mine in a mix of sand and limestone rocks but have no idea if this is necessary.

Maybe this way plant will be forced to root steadier.

The main point of it was to increase the alkalinity of the soil (for some reason I thought that Parajubaeas dont like acid soil) and to make sure the drainage was very good. The original mound planting has sunken into the surrounding soil but it seems stable!

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WestCoastGal

Welcome Louis. Glad you found the forum and really hope you will share photos of palms growing in your area. We have a number of countries represented in membership but off hand I don't think I've noticed anyone else from Japan post. I know that a number of cold hardies originated there so am interested in what is commonly grown.

I'm sure it's been a bit challenging to "down zone" compared to what you were use to before. I'd love to grow Arenga where we are at and should be able to but need to work on creating some more canopy first in the yard. I'd also like to add some P selloum. I see it in a few places in my neighborhood but it is growing under an eaves. See that you say you are lacking canopy also. It does make it harder starting out. Since we are in similar situations I'll be interested to see what you add to your yard and how it does over time.

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louisrui

Hi WestCoastGal, thanks for your message.

Well, I started to modify a typical Japanese garden (small trees, all cloud-shaped),

so the only trees that could create rapidly some canopy would be the Osmanthus fragrans.

I have to keep in mind that we have typhoon too, though we are squared by mountains.

How is your weather? With 9b you could easily have P selloum, don't you? I think you could

even have Monstera deliciosa if you have a canopy. What a chance!

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Palmə häl′ik

Can I see your O. fragrans? I too have several of these.... Not a pretty shrub, but the fragrance makes up for it...

I think they call it TeaTree or something like that down here in the S.E. USA Maybe TeaOlive?

Ive heard of the enormous ones in China...

Maybe Okinawa too? I used to live there in 1975 & '76. Kadena AFB.... Expo 75! Gate2 St! :-)

Lotsa Sago cycads there....

-Ray.

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louisrui

Hi Palme Halik,

Yes, Okinawa is the natural habit of the numerous Cycas revoluta you can see there.

I have 2 O. fragrans, a Silver (white flowers) and a Gold (yellow flowers). I got really big here

so the fragrance is quite unbearable, like if you would perfume yourself with WC deodorant!

I'll take some picture today when it warms a little up ^^

Here in Japan the name means "Gold/silver rhino tree", don't ask me why it's rhino, no idea!

I envy you Florida weather! I have been there when I was a child, still have wonderful memories.

There was so much alligator everywhere, did you guys fix that, lol?

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palm tree man

It seems to be a problem that the southern most US experiences. I have two in the lake by my home; on second thought there might even be more than two. lol What palms are you growing in Japan? You guys have been so innovative and have such wonderful gardens that seem to seamlessly harmonize with nature. To me every garden should have a Koi pond, I am working on one in the near future. Yes, I also love fish and animals as well as plants. lol

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palm tree man

David, P Sunkha are being grown in Georgia even in South West Georgia which is above Tallahassee which can get fairly cold. Honestly, I have not checked to see how they fared this winter but they can stand more heat than the others and are a great size which does give us some promise. I am trying one myself just because some seed that I put in a pot four years ago finally sprouted! Don't give up on these guys; some seed can take years it appears. :)

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Alicehunter2000

Or maybe just go large...lol..its good to know that there might be a chance here.

I wonder what happened to Louis. ...this poster from Japan?

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palm tree man

He probably just hadn't checked his email. If I wasn't in IT, I probably would not every day either. :) David should we try Arenga R? Is it that much better than Arenga E for us? They are so similar but R is so much shorter but is supposed to be slightly tougher. What do you think buddy?

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