Butia x Jubaea F1 or F2

[buffy]

I live in northeast Texas. Zone 8A/8B borderline these days. We average around 50" of rain per year.  Would a Jubaea drown here. Would an F1 have enough rain tolerance or should I go to the F2 and get additional wet tolerance plus faster growth. Has anybody seen a mature F2? How big do they get? I know it's all variable, but I'd like to do some visualization. I've seen a picture of a Jubaea in San Francisco that looked close to mature. They get plenty of rain. Any opinions in general on the matter.

[merrill]

Hi, Buffy:

There was at least one JXB for many years at Fairchild T. G.  near former front gate.  It wasn't as vigorous as other of these various mixtures in less tropical environments.  

The F2, [JXB]XB, is very vigorous, tends to be self-sterile, but otherwise fertile.  My F2 is quite heavy and about 20 feet tall w/ about 8 inflorescences per year.  

The F3, [(JXB)XB]XB, tends to be at least somewhat fertile.  Gary Hollar might be able to give better statistics on that.  

Necessarily, we're dealing w/ small populations here.   Reverse crosses are quite different; have even less  experience W/ them.

Best Wishes,

merrill

[buffy]

How old is your F2?

[merrill]

Hi, Buffy:

In my experience. all these hybrids slow considerably in growth rate as they age.  Our guess is that it is over thirty years now.  Its growth was phenomenal the first few years.   merrill

[mjff]

Buffy,

I don't know that the problem for a Jubaea would be drowning in your area, but rather the combination of hot and humid.  I have several large Jubaeas in San Angelo, but our humidity levels are much lower than NE TX.  Of course, if you plant a Jubaea or Butiagrus in a low lying area with poor drainage you will probably have a problem with either of them.

[merrill]

Hi, BuffY:

My impression is that XButyagrus can withstand wet feet much better than JXB.  Ask Ed Brown and Mrs. Bishock.  merrill

[Matt N- Dallas]

Hi Buffy,

I have a jubaea and two F2 jubaea x butia hybrids here in Dallas.  Tony in Dallas has a jubaea and an F1 hybrid.  All were fine in 2007 with our record 50" of rain.  All are growing in well drained soil also.  Where do you live in NE TX?

[buffy]

I live two hours east in Longview. Are the xButyagrus cold tolerant in Zone 8A/8B? I have a fine sand gently sloping into the creek bed with red clay underneath. My yard is a lot better than most of East Texas, but nothing like your deep black soil in Dallas. We do stay a couple of degrees warmer in most winters than you do though. Do y'all know anybody that offers the xButyagrus? Acquistion seems a lot more likely than my fantasy of the Jubutyagrus hybrid.

[Alicehunter2000]

Tim Hopper at hybridpalms and Elaine at Moultriepalms

[Matt N- Dallas]

Hi Buffy,

I have two butyagrus growing.  I would say they are marginal in z8- that is they are fine until we have a zone defining winter or another 1980's winter.  Dallas has really not had cold enough temps to damage a butyagrus since 1989.  The temps did drop to the low teens in 1996- but I don't know of any in-ground butyagrus here then.  Mine have been in ground for the last four years and have not been damaged.  The lowest temps experienced have been 18*.  I agree with David- Tim Hopper has very nice butyagrus.  I bought a one gallon plant from him four and a half years ago.  It is an excellent specimen and is now 6' tall.   Grant at Horticultural Consultants in Houston has butyagrus also.

[PalmGuyWC]

For those who are new to the world of hybridization, the mother palm is always listed first, such as Butiagrus, (Butia X Syagrus). I'm not trying to promote or cut anyone out, but I believe Patrick Schafer in N. Calif. has the largest selection of hybrid cocoid palms. I'm not sure what he has that's available, but some of the crosses he has  done include: Butyagrus, Bujubeagrus, Jubaea X Butia, Jubaea X Bujubaea, Butia X Parajubaea, Butia X Bujubaea, Syagrus X Bujubaea, (and coming soon, maybe) Syagrus X Parajubaea. He has also done Syagrus X Jubaea, and vice versa.

He may have done other crosses, but I can't keep up with Patrick's crosses. He also crossed Jubaea X allogopteria, but only two of the plants survived, and they are growing very slowly. It seems any cross using Jubaea as the mother plant is very slow in it's juvinile years, and then they speed up as they get older.

Since a lot of these hybrids are new to cultivation, many have not been cold tested yet, so it remains to be seen how hardy they will be to cold. Butia X Parajubaea is reported to have taken 18F (-8.5C) with no damage.

My Butia X Jubaea was not damaged in the '89 freeze with a low of 14F (-10C)., but the Butiagrus was severly burned, but recovered. This coming growing season, Patrick hopes to use more exotic Syagrus pollens to cross with Butia, Jubaea and Bujubaea.

Dick

[merrill]

In Gainesville, Florida [JXB]XB survived 10F with some loss of foliage.  

This same freeze killed one out of nine XButyagrus after the meristems were cut back to live tissue.

[Gaston in Argentina]

At the front of my house theres a public park, the past week i did transplanted from my backyard this JubaeaXButia.-

Seeds come from a Jubaea growing close to Butias.-

[Gaston in Argentina]

Here´s another picture.-

http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/3344/sinttulo2uc1.jpg

[PalmGuyWC]

Nice photos, Gaston. That's the first time I've seen a Jubaea X Butia cross that size. It seems to have more of the Jubaea characteristics, but looks more stretched out and with some arching of the fronds.

Dick

[Gaston in Argentina]

Dick

and very fast growing.-

I think i will know them fruiting someday....

Cheers.

Gaston, AR

[PalmGuyWC]

I thought I would bump this thread as someone in another thread wanted to know what a Jubaea X Butia looked like. Gaston has provided a nice picture of his. A Butia X Jubaea would have more arching fronds and look more like a Butia.

Dick

[iamjv]

Here is a photo of my BxJ (left palm in the photo) for comparison.... BTW that is a great looking palm that Gaston posted. Jv