Trachycarpus South Texas

[PricklyPearSATX]

I've got a trachy that came with my house.  It is about 25 years old, 15 feet tall, growing in the shade and looks pretty good.  

However, I've been looking at other trachys around my neighborhood.  The visible ones are in full sun.  (Like at the local taco hangouts)  They look horrible.  They have very little foliage.  They are very very tall with very skinny trunks.  They are probably about 20 years old.

Residential plants growing in full sun, also look horrible. They also have little foliage.  Their petticoats haven't been overly pruned.  The older green fronds just "fall down".  It looks sad.

My neighbor has two growing.  One that is in the shade actually has a petticoat.  The other one gets more sun.  It's too tall and doesn't have enough foliage.

Can these look decent in South Texas if they are grown in the shade?

Or are they all pretty much duds?

[NBTX11]

PricklyPear,

The ones grown in sun will look poor, imo, although I have many decent looking ones in shaded areas.  The climate just isn't right for them to look their best in full sun.

I guess my next question is why would you want to grow one, unless its for a small area.  I think there are better palms to grow for the San Antonio area.  There are plenty of cold hardy palms that will thrive and look much better than trachycarpus which I am sure you have seen around town.  I am not a trachy fan for this area, if you can't tell.

[PricklyPearSATX]

It is for a small area.  The area is also shaded.  (I have one of those courtyard entries)

That is why.  I'm not crazy about them either.  I'm just getting started with palms.

[NBTX11]

Oh, ok.  They are very good for courtyards and small shaded areas.  Maybe group a couple together, and it will look good.  I personally wouldn't make it may centerpiece palm in front yard, but that's just me.  Keiththibodeaux recently posted a thread about cold hardiness for palms in zone 8b and 9a that may be of interest to you.  Would give you an idea of the types of palms you can grow here.

[faith bishock]

Depends on the species -  & care, of course.  A specimin planted in a residential yard would probably get more  care & fertilizer than one planted  in a commercial landscape.  As my Dad told me, you can't argue with success.

[happ]

Don't trachycarpus prefer cool summers?

[PricklyPearSATX]

Jim:  I wouldn't make them a centerpiece either.  LOL- I don't think I've seen anyone who has.  Or if they try, they look so sad that they end up pulling them out of their yard.  

Thanks for the info and I will check out Keith's list.  

Happ:  The majority of our landscape shrubs are imported  from Japan and China.  So, we try and sometime succeed with cool climate plants.

San Antonio needs to get a little more creative in the palm department.  

I see so many residential mistakes.  The one I see most often:  Palms, planted too close to the  foundation.   Something that  looks  cute in a pot, turns out to be monster 20 years later.

I'm also seeing queens in full sun in front yards.  They seem to be replacing the trachys and look even sadder.  They are a disgusting yellow.  I wonder if it's LY?

Anyway, I'm here to learn.

[spockvr6]

PricklyPear-

Id say your answer is in your palm!  Its 25 years old, growing in shade and looks good.  Therefore, these palms apparently will grow well in your climate in the right location.

[jimbiz]

Prickly

If I remember correctly, there are some interesting examples of Trachycarpus growing in the courtyard of The McNay Art Museum on New Braunfels.  They appeared to be very healthy.  Now that I recall, also check out the courtyard of the Menger.   Several healthy specimens are growing there as well.

It would seem that the more maintenance invested in a palm, the better it will look.  Maybe the Trachycarpus in your neighborhood are not very well maintained.

The yellowing of Queen Palms in San Antonio is due to manganese defiecincy not lethal yellowing and is easily remedied.  Go to HEB, buy some Epsom Salts, add 2 tbps per gallon of water, and apply around base of palm.

If you want a palm for your shaded entranceway, try Rhapis, one of the hardier Chamadoreas, or one of the hardier Licualas, which you will have to protect from frost/freezing.

[edbrown_3]

They seem to take the heat here in North FL... I started them as a understory of Palms with Livistona.  It was under a pine canopy. Pines started shading too much about 8 years into the process so I started thinning out. This has been a gradual transittion to higher sun light.

The Trachycarpus are about 6-10 feet tall know. The Livistona about he same size.   I have removed the pines gradually.

This is to make a nice palm forest. Its a mix of taller Livistona (They grow a bit faster) and slightly shorter Trachycarpus fortunei and martianus. I mixed in some Rhapis excelsa &substillus to add to understory.  It gives the effect of being in the Asian  tropics in North Florida.

Best regards

Ed

Best regards,

Ed

[FRITO]

Ed, sounds nice, do you have phoos of this Asian tropic area?

Trachys do well here in the fla panhandle. where we get hot humid summers, similar to san antonio I would guess but we have more annual rainfal.

here is a local spceimen growing in part shade under live oak canopy

another part shade

pair in full sun

[NBTX11]

(spockvr6 @ Jan. 20 2008,08:57)

QUOTE

PricklyPear-

Id say your answer is in your palm!  Its 25 years old, growing in shade and looks good.  Therefore, these palms apparently will grow well in your climate in the right location.

They will grow, but many look sad with small crowns.  Too much heat.  We get weeks of 100F (38-40C) and many months of 90F temps.  It's hotter here than in FL by 5-10 degrees in summer and we get less rainfall.  It is very humid though due to proximity to gulf.

[spockvr6]

(syersj @ Jan. 20 2008,15:38)

QUOTE

(spockvr6 @ Jan. 20 2008,08:57)

QUOTE

PricklyPear-

Id say your answer is in your palm!  Its 25 years old, growing in shade and looks good.  Therefore, these palms apparently will grow well in your climate in the right location.

They will grow, but many look sad with small crowns.  Too much heat.  We get weeks of 100F (38-40C) and many months of 90F temps.  It's hotter here than in FL by 5-10 degrees in summer and we get less rainfall.  It is very humid though due to proximity to gulf.

Prickly pear said his looked good!

So.....it sounds like the answer is to grow them in shade and they will be fine.

[GREENHAND]

They grow good in the Dallas area. Those taco joints proberly dont take care of them. they do better in privite gardens.

[_Keith]

South Texas = San Antonio.  Tad, where are you?  

Anyway, here in South Louisiana there are many Trachys.  They were the main survivor of the 89 freeze, so there are many really old ones around too.  The ones that were taken care of look great, and the ones that have obviously had no care in the last 20 years are OK too, but they do have those long skinny trunks.   They are also 30+ years old.

Love your Trachys for one day, after the Arctic express, they may be all you have left to love.

Keith

Trachys are tough.

[GREENHAND]

here is a couple of picts of some in 8 b.

[GREENHAND]

another

[GREENHAND]

one more

[NBTX11]

(keiththibodeaux @ Jan. 21 2008,12:07)

QUOTE

South Texas = San Antonio.  Tad, where are you?  

Anyway, here in South Louisiana there are many Trachys.  They were the main survivor of the 89 freeze, so there are many really old ones around too.  The ones that were taken care of look great, and the ones that have obviously had no care in the last 20 years are OK too, but they do have those long skinny trunks.   They are also 30+ years old.

Love your Trachys for one day, after the Arctic express, they may be all you have left to love.

Keith

Trachys are tough.

Keith,

San Antonio = South Texas

Rio Grande Valley = DEEP South Texas

North of San Antonio (for example from Waco to Austin) = Central Texas.

San Antonio is generally considered the northern edge of South Texas.  Also known as South Central Texas.

[NBTX11]

(keiththibodeaux @ Jan. 21 2008,12:07)

QUOTE

South Texas = San Antonio.  Tad, where are you?  

Anyway, here in South Louisiana there are many Trachys.  They were the main survivor of the 89 freeze, so there are many really old ones around too.  The ones that were taken care of look great, and the ones that have obviously had no care in the last 20 years are OK too, but they do have those long skinny trunks.   They are also 30+ years old.

Love your Trachys for one day, after the Arctic express, they may be all you have left to love.

Keith

Trachys are tough.

I can't love trachys, they look to much like thin hairy sticks with small crowns around here.

They do look ok if taken care of, but we have much better choices around here.  W. Filifera, W. Hybrid Robusta, Sabal Mexicana, Sabal Palmetto, Phoenix Canariensis, etc. ALL made it through the 80s freezes in San Antonio, so they are permanent.  These are more attractive palms imo, so why would I want to plant a palm that I don't necessary care for.  Trachy wouldn't be the only palm left after a bad freeze here and I suspect not in southern Louisiana either.

[_Keith]

(syersj @ Jan. 21 2008,14:35)

QUOTE

(keiththibodeaux @ Jan. 21 2008,12:07)

QUOTE

South Texas = San Antonio.  Tad, where are you?  

Anyway, here in South Louisiana there are many Trachys.  They were the main survivor of the 89 freeze, so there are many really old ones around too.  The ones that were taken care of look great, and the ones that have obviously had no care in the last 20 years are OK too, but they do have those long skinny trunks.   They are also 30+ years old.

Love your Trachys for one day, after the Arctic express, they may be all you have left to love.

Keith

Trachys are tough.

Keith,

San Antonio = South Texas

Rio Grande Valley = DEEP South Texas

North of San Antonio (for example from Waco to Austin) = Central Texas.

San Antonio is generally considered the northern edge of South Texas.  Also known as South Central Texas.

As for what is, or is not in South Texas, I should have put a smiley face in that one.  As a true southernor might say "I ain't got no dog in that hunt."

[Zac in NC]

San Antonio needs to get a little more creative in the palm department.  

You obviously haven't been to see Father Leo at the Catholic Seminary in town.  He's growing a ton of stuff. And LOL at the areas of Texas. Where is Richard to say Trachies? Why plant Trashycarpus.  When I get my own place in Austin, I'm going to push the limits. Clay is really pushing them in South Austin.

Zac

[palmdudetx]

Prickly Pear,

Jim in the New Braunfels area is exactly right on. There are many palm species that will do well in your area. The only problem is that most nurseries do not stock a lot of them. However, due to the internet, most can be purchased from mail order palm nurseries and palm sales. ( check out the local palm chapters in your area.)

My experience with Trachys has been that they do not like full sun exposure to our hot afternoon summer sun.

Some shade from afternoon sun keeps them looking better.

Marvin

Southern Waller County,Tx.

[PricklyPearSATX]

We aren't the only ones with hairy sticks.  Here is a link I found to Old Windmills in North Carolina.   Many look nice, but a few have the hairy stick look.  

http://www.garysnursery.com/OldWindmills.html

I've gotta  check out the Oblate Grotto. (Fr. Leo's garden)

Nothing like praying in a beautiful garden!

[Zac in NC]

(PricklyPearSATX @ Jan. 23 2008,18:29)

QUOTE

We aren't the only ones with hairy sticks.  Here is a link I found to Old Windmills in North Carolina.   Many look nice, but a few have the hairy stick look.  

http://www.garysnursery.com/OldWindmills.html

I've gotta  check out the Oblate Grotto. (Fr. Leo's garden)

Nothing like praying in a beautiful garden!

Its worth checking out( the grotto). Coming originally from NC, Trachycarpus is what I can grow, aside from the few other very hardy palms. Gary's is a greta site too( and he's a very nice guy) He's the Godfather of palms in NC.

Zac

[edbrown_3]

Frito,

Heres a late reply as I didnt shoot any pictures until yesterday Heres a few photos of the Trachy carpus understory

Best regards

Ed

[edbrown_3]

another near Bamboo

[edbrown_3]

Trachycarpus

[edbrown_3]

Arenga part

[edbrown_3]

Chuniophoenix part

[edbrown_3]

I dont take as good of photos as Zac Keith, Greenhand Frito y others but wanted to keep this thread going

Best regards

Ed

[PricklyPearSATX]

I like that Asian tropical look.  It's my kind of yard.

A little harder to acheive in San Antonio, but believe it or not, I'm slowly getting there.

The pics are great!!

[PalmGuyWC]

I live in N. Calif, and Tracheycarpus grow very well for me, but I have cool nights, winter and summer. Day time tems. in the summer climb above 100F several times a year.  If I had it to do over, I would have planted fewer T. fortunei, as they tend to get broken up in strong wind and they look kind of ratty when they get tall. One of mine must be over 35 feet.

My first choice with the Trachs. is T. wagneranus. It's just as cold hardy as fortunei, but it has stiff leathery fronds an will take wind. It's slightly smaller than fortunei, and in my opinion is much prettier. I think they all look better with some afternoon shade. Trachs. have a reputation for being slow, but given plenty of water and care, they grow rather fast.

Dick

[ghar41]

(PalmGuyWC @ Jan. 27 2008,20:03)

QUOTE

I live in N. Calif, and Tracheycarpus grow very well for me, but I have cool nights, winter and summer. Day time tems. in the summer climb above 100F several times a year.  If I had it to do over, I would have planted fewer T. fortunei, as they tend to get broken up in strong wind and they look kind of ratty when they get tall. One of mine must be over 35 feet.

My first choice with the Trachs. is T. wagneranus. It's just as cold hardy as fortunei, but it has stiff leathery fronds an will take wind. It's slightly smaller than fortunei, and in my opinion is much prettier. I think they all look better with some afternoon shade. Trachs. have a reputation for being slow, but given plenty of water and care, they grow rather fast.

Dick

Good point, Dick.

Notice the leaves on this 18 ft. ct T. wag  located in the "Cold Hardy" area in my front yard. See how the leaves can be seen easily from a distance.  T Fortunei's break up and look ratty.

[ghar41]

Just my opinion...but I think the crowns are far superior.  

Hope you guys can find them in your area.  Get em mail order if you can.  Good Luck.  

[JimR]

I've got a trachy that came with my house. It is about 25 years old, 15 feet tall, growing in the shade and looks pretty good.

However, I've been looking at other trachys around my neighborhood. The visible ones are in full sun. (Like at the local taco hangouts) They look horrible. They have very little foliage. They are very very tall with very skinny trunks. They are probably about 20 years old.

Residential plants growing in full sun, also look horrible. They also have little foliage. Their petticoats haven't been overly pruned. The older green fronds just "fall down". It looks sad.

My neighbor has two growing. One that is in the shade actually has a petticoat. The other one gets more sun. It's too tall and doesn't have enough foliage.

Can these look decent in South Texas if they are grown in the shade?

Or are they all pretty much duds?

PricklyPear--

I was pretty astonished to come upon your post. I guess I would have to ask where in SA you live. Trachys are pretty much a staple in residential and commercial planting in most of the area I am familiar with (North Central inside the loop through downtown). In general they seem to grow great in either full sun or deep shade. There are a bunch of good looking ones in Breckenridge park that are very shaded. Trachys are generally supposed to be thin (compared to something like the even more common Washintonia filifera) and their leaf crowns are certainly not as wide as some other species, but I do find them attractive.

BTW--I did have a large (c. 25 ft.) Trachy die mysteriously on me last year. It just got some sort of wilt and declined. Nothing seemed to help. Is there a type of fusarium wilt that affects Trachys?

Someone prepared a great map of palms growing downtown showing a bunch of different species. I think it is too large to upload, but I can shoot you a copy if you like.

As to other species that grow here, there are lots, depending on where you are. San Antonio contains several very distinct climates. Both Home Depot and Lowes have tons of Bottles and Foxtails on sale right now. Neither of which have much of a chance outside, although I do know of one Foxtail planted in my neighborhood that made it through last Winter. I do not think I would try it though.

[FRITO]

Missed the end of this thread somehow. glad it was bumped!

Ed, Thanks for the pics, love those little arenga seedlings! I am germinating some and have had some trouble.

Glenn, Nice yard shot. that waggie is massive and I love that chamaerops too.

[NBTX11]

I've got a trachy that came with my house. It is about 25 years old, 15 feet tall, growing in the shade and looks pretty good.

However, I've been looking at other trachys around my neighborhood. The visible ones are in full sun. (Like at the local taco hangouts) They look horrible. They have very little foliage. They are very very tall with very skinny trunks. They are probably about 20 years old.

Residential plants growing in full sun, also look horrible. They also have little foliage. Their petticoats haven't been overly pruned. The older green fronds just "fall down". It looks sad.

My neighbor has two growing. One that is in the shade actually has a petticoat. The other one gets more sun. It's too tall and doesn't have enough foliage.

Can these look decent in South Texas if they are grown in the shade?

Or are they all pretty much duds?

PricklyPear--

I was pretty astonished to come upon your post. I guess I would have to ask where in SA you live. Trachys are pretty much a staple in residential and commercial planting in most of the area I am familiar with (North Central inside the loop through downtown). In general they seem to grow great in either full sun or deep shade. There are a bunch of good looking ones in Breckenridge park that are very shaded. Trachys are generally supposed to be thin (compared to something like the even more common Washintonia filifera) and their leaf crowns are certainly not as wide as some other species, but I do find them attractive.

BTW--I did have a large (c. 25 ft.) Trachy die mysteriously on me last year. It just got some sort of wilt and declined. Nothing seemed to help. Is there a type of fusarium wilt that affects Trachys?

Someone prepared a great map of palms growing downtown showing a bunch of different species. I think it is too large to upload, but I can shoot you a copy if you like.

As to other species that grow here, there are lots, depending on where you are. San Antonio contains several very distinct climates. Both Home Depot and Lowes have tons of Bottles and Foxtails on sale right now. Neither of which have much of a chance outside, although I do know of one Foxtail planted in my neighborhood that made it through last Winter. I do not think I would try it though.

Foxtails don't have a chance. You're lucky if you can keep one alive for a couple winters here. Although, I also did see one make it through the last winter. I saw several queen palms that had some burn, and they are supposedly much hardier. And we only got down to the mid 20s.

[Mark_NoVA]

Trachycarpus comes from mountainous areas (actually, nobody knows for sure exactly where T. fortunei comes from, as it has been cultivated for thousands of years in China, but other Trachycarpus species are from mountainous areas from India through China), and thus as expected don't thrive in lots of heat. And you'd expect that like most other plants, they require a little more shade the further south and hotter you get, so they should be expected to grow better in shade in your area.

By the way, here on the East coast, T. wagnerianus is considered slightly more cold-hardy than T. fortunei.

One interesting idea for you is to grow a beautiful but less-cold-hardy Trachycarpus, such as T. princeps.

[Tomsky]

T. wagneranus has a nice thick wooly trunk.

Jack