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Cocothrinax no ID

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This Cocothrinax was labeled as argentea or argentata, but when I posted it in past years I was advised it didn't key to either. I am still waiting for its first flowers. It does have some silver color on the leaf underside but it is modest.

It has been a good grower. I thought it was time to solicit thoughts on a species id again. Here it is...

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33.0782 North -117.305 West  at 72 feet elevation

Tracy, was that a Jungle Music purchase? I have a spitting image from them; argentata if I recall..

Bret

 

Coastal canyon area of San Diego

 

"In the shadow of the Cross"

I have one too!

Let's keep our forum fun and friendly.

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I must have a palm from the same source. I bought mine from Jungle Music as well. I've seen your previous posts about it and have wondered if there was any official ID.

Hey! I bought one from Phil as well . Mine was not labeled and when I posted pics here I was told it was C. Barbadensis. Mine is about the same size . It grows slow and steady. Jungle Music had a few Cocothrinax species when I was there about 20 years ago so not sure if mine is the same as yours. Very small when planted and full afternoon sun . The fronds on the one I got don’t stay stiff and tend to relax with age . It has an orange-ish hastula . HarryIMG_4214.jpeg

Trunk is pretty typical CocothrinaxIMG_4213.jpeg

The fronds are more relaxed a year or so after opening IMG_4211.jpeg

Orange colored hastula. I’ve got this one labeled Cocothrinax Barbadensis. I was at one of Jungle Music’s sales many years ago and Phil had some that had no label and were too little to identify . These pics are from when I posted a while back ( couple of years?) . Someone on PT said it was Barbadensis. Since these photos were taken , and seeing others , I started giving it more water and feeding it . I believe mine is a different species than yours.

Hey Harry, it’s a little bit difficult to tell in your picture, but my observation is that barbadensis has a leaf that is not fully circular. Sorry for the less than great picture, but here’s a couple shots I took this morning.

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Bret

 

Coastal canyon area of San Diego

 

"In the shadow of the Cross"

That "Jungle Music argentata" is certainly not argentata. I used to live in a forest of them on Big Pine Key and we had large specimens on our property. C. argentata doesn't have those beautiful, neat, light-colored mummy-wrappings you show here, Tracy, and what fiber argentata does have doesn't extend down that far below the crown; and the leaves have a different form, they have a bit of a wave and the tips droop, it's not one of the "stiff" Coccothrinax. Also, I think you'd never see C. argentata attain the sizes you have here, when grown in coastal SoCal, in any reasonable time-span. It is slow even in a tropical climate.

But these also don't look at all like the C. barbadensis/C. alta I know, which, as Bret notes above, doesn't have a blade fully encircling the hastula (mine here only cover a little over a half-circle). Though it's the species I always expect to see growing near the coast, since it may be the fastest-growing. This is why it's the one you really find in the trade in Florida on any sort of scale (often sold there as C. alta), it's maybe the only profitable one to grow. I have quite a few of them here in Palm Springs and have acquired them both from Phil and from Florida sources...and they match, so I think what Phil has sold (at least recently) as that species, does seem to be accurately labeled.

I remember several decades ago, it seemed the most common one you'd see in SoCal was C. miraguama, and I have a feeling that may be what this is. The mummy-wrappings in particular on your beautiful specimen. I planted a miraguama at my old apartment-building in West Hollywood in the mid-90s (probably bought from Phil), and this looks somewhat similar in my memory, I remember how beautiful the wrappings were...unfortunately that one was removed at some point in the intervening years so I am relying on old memories. Some of the photos of miraguama on Palmpedia really resemble yours, though of course you have to assume that their pictures are accurate as well. But you might want to try to key it out in that direction (and note there are three subspecies with differences in the fibers...see Paul Craft's book on the Palms of Cuba).

Phil has also carried C. montana in the past...I bought a "Coccothrinax sp." from him a year or so ago and spoke to Ricardo at the nursery about it, he said in his recollection they had carried C. montana in the fairly recent past, and I am inclined to believe what I bought there as "sp." may be that one, but it's very stiff, definitely looks different to me from what you're all showing here.

Hopefully someone with some good Cocco-chops from Florida will chime in here with a more authoritative idea. This genus is a really underused one, in my opinion, just the right size for home gardens, especially courtyards, and I wish there wasn't so much confusion with all the species (and that more species were readily available)...also I wish they grew a little faster, but at least there are a couple of them that grow well in a variety of climates. The nice thing is that they're very ornamental from youth, so there's no reason to decide against planting them and enjoying them, at any size.

Michael Norell

Rancho Mirage, California | 33°44' N 116°25' W | 287 ft | z10a | avg Jan 43/70F | Jul 78/108F avg | Weather Station KCARANCH310

previously Big Pine Key, Florida | 24°40' N 81°21' W | 4.5 ft. | z12a | Calcareous substrate | avg annual min. approx 52F | avg Jan 65/75F | Jul 83/90 | extreme min approx 41F

previously Natchez, Mississippi | 31°33' N 91°24' W | 220 ft.| z9a | Downtown/river-adjacent | Loess substrate | avg annual min. 23F | Jan 43/61F | Jul 73/93F | extreme min 2.5F (1899); previously Los Angeles, California (multiple locations)

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