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Need help from you Sabal masters

dalmatiansoap
dalmatiansoap
in DISCUSSING PALM TREES WORLDWIDE

Featured Replies

Sabal are rare palms here so there's nothing much to compare with. It's seed grown by myself and I germinated lot of various Sabals in past years, from all around the world. It's relatively fast palm here being in ground for last 4 years, probably 6-7 years from seed. Almost 3m length petiole + leave on older leaves.

Any ideas what species it belongs to?

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    We have a saying in Greek like wish I had previously the recently obtained knowledge. That fits also in present case. Never miss taking pictures of the mother Sabal specimen, which you had gathered seeds from, focusing especially on reproductive organs, that is inflorescences. The more perspectives you use for the shots and the more close ups, the more will be the chances of a positive identification of both parent and offspring, provided that neither of them is actually a hybrid.😵‍💫 Otherwise you would have to wait about 20 years since germination for the offspring to reach maturity. All I can tell from those pictures is, that palman makes up around the half of the blade. This feature could exclude several spp.

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    Definitive ID of most sabals is done through inflorescences. They are tough or impossible to ID when young. I would rule out sabal palmetto, petioles are too rounded on the back in cross section. How big is the leaf? Looks pretty big.

    Formerly in Gilbert AZ, zone 9a/9b. Now in Palmetto, Florida Zone 9b/10a??

     

    Tom Blank

    • Like 2
    • Author

    @sonoranfans probably a bit more of 3ft from costa to tip of leave. 30 leaflet each side

    Sabal blackburniana?

    Palms - 1 Bismarckia nobilis, 2 Butia odorata, 1 BxJ, 4 BxS, 1 Chamaerops humilis, 1 Chamaedorea cataractarum, 1 Chamaedorea elegans, 1 Chamaedorea microspadix, 1 Chamaedorea radicalis, 1 Hyophorbe verschaffeltii, 1 Livistona chinensis, 1 Livistona nitida, 1 Phoenix canariensis, 2 Phoenix roebelenii, 1 Phoenix sylvestris, 1 Ravenea rivularis, 1 Rhapis excelsa, 1 Sabal bermudana, 4 Sabal palmetto, 1 Sabal minor, 2 Syagrus romanzoffiana, 3 Trachycarpus fortunei, 4 Washingtonia robusta
    Total: 37
    47 minutes ago, JLM said:

    Sabal blackburniana?

    Is that a valid name?

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    Hmmm. @dalmatiansoap it’s a nice Sabal whatever it turns out to be!

    Looks kind of silvery; uresana maybe?

    Let's keep our forum fun and friendly.

    Any data in this post is provided 'as is' and in no event shall I be liable for any damages, including, without limitation, damages resulting from accuracy or lack thereof, insult, or lost profits or revenue, claims by third parties or for other similar costs, or any special, incidental, or consequential damages arising out of my opinion or the use of this data. The accuracy or reliability of the data is not guaranteed or warranted in any way and I disclaim liability of any kind whatsoever, including, without limitation, liability for quality, performance, merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose arising out of the use, or inability to use my data. Other terms may apply.

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    • Like 1
    4 minutes ago, DoomsDave said:

    Hmmm. @dalmatiansoap it’s a nice Sabal whatever it turns out to be!

    Looks kind of silvery; uresana maybe?

    Uresana crossed my mind as well, due to the color. IN the first two pics and the last pic I immediately though uresana. But I have no confidence in ID'ing small sabals. It is surely not a palmetto though. I see plenty of palmettos here, NOPE.

    Formerly in Gilbert AZ, zone 9a/9b. Now in Palmetto, Florida Zone 9b/10a??

     

    Tom Blank

    2 hours ago, Phoenikakias said:

    Is that a valid name?

    Seems valid to me.

    Some think its just a hardier form of Sabal domingensis though, so it really depends on how you feel about it. Which speaking of, this could also be Sabal domingensis.

    Palms - 1 Bismarckia nobilis, 2 Butia odorata, 1 BxJ, 4 BxS, 1 Chamaerops humilis, 1 Chamaedorea cataractarum, 1 Chamaedorea elegans, 1 Chamaedorea microspadix, 1 Chamaedorea radicalis, 1 Hyophorbe verschaffeltii, 1 Livistona chinensis, 1 Livistona nitida, 1 Phoenix canariensis, 2 Phoenix roebelenii, 1 Phoenix sylvestris, 1 Ravenea rivularis, 1 Rhapis excelsa, 1 Sabal bermudana, 4 Sabal palmetto, 1 Sabal minor, 2 Syagrus romanzoffiana, 3 Trachycarpus fortunei, 4 Washingtonia robusta
    Total: 37

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    2 hours ago, JLM said:

    Seems valid to me.

    Some think its just a hardier form of Sabal domingensis though, so it really depends on how you feel about it. Which speaking of, this could also be Sabal domingensis.

    It’s not valid. Kew lists it as a synonym of Sabal palmetto. I will say though that S ‘blackburniana’ I’ve seen appear larger and different to S palmetto. I suspect S blackburniana as described was found to be the same as S palmetto so it was synonym used, but since then the name has been erroneously applied to different plants.

    As above, Sabal are difficult to ID at this size. I’m far from able to provide a positive ID, but to me it looks like it might be one of the very large group ones like S uresana, domingensis, causiarum or maritima.

    Tim Brisbane

    Patterson Lakes, bayside Melbourne, Australia

    Rarely Frost

    2005 Minimum: 2.6C,  Maximum: 44C

    2005 Average: 17.2C, warmest on record.

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    • Like 2
    38 minutes ago, tim_brissy_13 said:

    It’s not valid. Kew lists it as a synonym of Sabal palmetto. I will say though that S ‘blackburniana’ I’ve seen appear larger and different to S palmetto. I suspect S blackburniana as described was found to be the same as S palmetto so it was synonym used, but since then the name has been erroneously applied to different plants.

    As above, Sabal are difficult to ID at this size. I’m far from able to provide a positive ID, but to me it looks like it might be one of the very large group ones like S uresana, domingensis, causiarum or maritima.

    I personally can't call it a palmetto if its so much larger than a palmetto. I just call it how I see it.

    Looking at S domingensis I would be more inclined to think that. Of course a true ID won't come without an inflorescence anyways.

    Palms - 1 Bismarckia nobilis, 2 Butia odorata, 1 BxJ, 4 BxS, 1 Chamaerops humilis, 1 Chamaedorea cataractarum, 1 Chamaedorea elegans, 1 Chamaedorea microspadix, 1 Chamaedorea radicalis, 1 Hyophorbe verschaffeltii, 1 Livistona chinensis, 1 Livistona nitida, 1 Phoenix canariensis, 2 Phoenix roebelenii, 1 Phoenix sylvestris, 1 Ravenea rivularis, 1 Rhapis excelsa, 1 Sabal bermudana, 4 Sabal palmetto, 1 Sabal minor, 2 Syagrus romanzoffiana, 3 Trachycarpus fortunei, 4 Washingtonia robusta
    Total: 37
    6 hours ago, JLM said:

    Seems valid to me.

    Some think its just a hardier form of Sabal domingensis though, so it really depends on how you feel about it. Which speaking of, this could also be Sabal domingensis.

    4 hours ago, tim_brissy_13 said:

    It’s not valid. Kew lists it as a synonym of Sabal palmetto. ... since then the name has been erroneously applied to different plants.

    This. It may also well be, that in certain regions and/or nurseries the use of this term has been standardized and is applied only on a certain form of Sabal. But to the rest of us, who do not live around, the term is not useful for description.

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    • Upvote 1

    Better post also some detailed pictures of hastula

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    • Like 1

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