How to kill a palm to more easily edit it

[DoomsDave]

Happy Mothers Day in the US. It’s been a mother of a day here in La Habra; tried to remove an Archontophoenix maxima and it fell the wrong way, and hassles ensued dealing with it.

I have other Archontophoenix I want to remove, and I’d like to kill them first, then wait for them to dry out at which point they lose 90-95% of live weight and become MUCH safer to handle. One method suggested is to use a very high salt saline solution funneled into holes drilled in the trunk.

Any thoughts, experiences to share?

 

[DoomsDave]

Edited a palm and it tried to edit me.

 

 

 

 

[richnorm]

Yikes!  They're so much bigger on the ground!   I have an 8 metre pole saw, long ladders and climbing ropes to deal with trees without branches crashing down onto plantings below.  I tie off (which sometimes requires climbing) then cut and lower in manageable sections.  I don't think killing the palm would save much weight. If in doubt just write the cheque!

[DoomsDave]

6 minutes ago, richnorm said:

Yikes!  They're so much bigger on the ground!   I have an 8 metre pole saw, long ladders and climbing ropes to deal with trees without branches crashing down onto plantings below.  I tie off (which sometimes requires climbing) then cut and lower in manageable sections.  I don't think killing the palm would save much weight. If in doubt just write the cheque!

Well it’s a lot more than it used to be and I want to DIY this.

[happypalms]

Tricky an organic method to kill a palm. High salt solution is one way!  I trust you want to keep your soil organic and not use a herbicide. I do know with bananas they use diesel injected into the suckers to kill them. But I don’t think this is the sort of thing you’d want in your soil. Just overfertilise it with some prilled urea!!! 

[sonoranfans]

Those are massive and pretty close to the house!  I had a thought that you could pre drill a few holes and put copper nails in the trunks.  I have killed a ficus benjamina stump that wouldn't die with stump rot etc this way.  It kept coming back till I put the copper nails in.   It took a few months to kill it, now Im waiting for the rot to set in.  The Cu nails themselves will need a hole drilled as they are mostly copper and not stout like iron nails.  I purchased them on amazon.   Dave, I remember your archies from 15 years ago, I didnt realize they got this big!  I will cut back fertilizer and irrigation water on mine.  I see royals come down here after drying out, seems like they dont topple but just waste away.  A dry palm is likely less than 1/3rd the weight of a live one.  Might be better to let them dry out before felling them.  It does prevent a garden redo for years I expect.  After seeing these pics I am looking around my yard at what will one day come down.  I used to think I wanted fast growing big tall palms, at some point my view changed due to aesthetics, but now safety and removal are looming larger.  

[DoomsDave]

1 hour ago, sonoranfans said:

Those are massive and pretty close to the house!  I had a thought that you could pre drill a few holes and put copper nails in the trunks.  I have killed a ficus benjamina stump that wouldn't die with stump rot etc this way.  It kept coming back till I put the copper nails in.   It took a few months to kill it, now Im waiting for the rot to set in.  The Cu nails themselves will need a hole drilled as they are mostly copper and not stout like iron nails.  I purchased them on amazon.   Dave, I remember your archies from 15 years ago, I didnt realize they got this big!  I will cut back fertilizer and irrigation water on mine.  I see royals come down here after drying out, seems like they dont topple but just waste away.  A dry palm is likely less than 1/3rd the weight of a live one.  Might be better to let them dry out before felling them.  It does prevent a garden redo for years I expect.  After seeing these pics I am looking around my yard at what will one day come down.  I used to think I wanted fast growing big tall palms, at some point my view changed due to aesthetics, but now safety and removal are looming larger.  

It’s important to note that palms vary a lot in wood weight and density.

Some, like Syagrus and Caryota have heavy hard wood. Others, like royals and Archontophoenix have very light, spongy wood. 

I had three royals die at my place when they were mature size, about 30-40 feet (10-13 M) tall. All were left standing and only felled after they were thoroughly dried out months later. They were relatively easy to handle; the wood was very light covered with hard but not impenetrable “bark.” None had fallen over of their own accord by the time they were felled. I would say they weighed about 10% of their live weight; certainly no more than 25%. HUGE difference in handling.

[Phoenikakias]

How tall was the Archontophoenix? Was it difficult for you to behead it? In such case you would remove as many as possible of the fronds and the cut off the part right below the crownshaft.

[DoomsDave]

48 minutes ago, Phoenikakias said:

How tall was the Archontophoenix? Was it difficult for you to behead it? In such case you would remove as many as possible of the fronds and the cut off the part right below the crownshaft.

Much MUCH too tall for me to behead it. about 25 feet 8.3 M of trunk plus crownshaft. No way to get up there.

[Phoenikakias]

46 minutes ago, DoomsDave said:

Much MUCH too tall for me to behead it. about 25 feet 8.3 M of trunk plus crownshaft. No way to get up there.

Oh, I understand...

[DoomsDave]

15 hours ago, richnorm said:

Yikes!  They're so much bigger on the ground!   I have an 8 metre pole saw, long ladders and climbing ropes to deal with trees without branches crashing down onto plantings below.  I tie off (which sometimes requires climbing) then cut and lower in manageable sections.  I don't think killing the palm would save much weight. If in doubt just write the cheque!

Tell me more about that 8 meter pole saw! Who makes it, where'd you get it how much was it? 

[aztropic]

1 hour ago, DoomsDave said:

Much MUCH too tall for me to behead it. about 25 feet 8.3 M of trunk plus crownshaft. No way to get up there.

Where there's a will, there's a way. Home depot rents 32 foot tall ladders for $50. I rented the ladder, edited my Bismarck, and had the ladder checked back in at 3 hours time. Planning out the job ahead really makes things go smoothly.👍

 

aztropic 

Mesa, Arizona 

[DoomsDave]

12 minutes ago, aztropic said:

Where there's a will, there's a way. Home depot rents 32 foot tall ladders for $50. I rented the ladder, edited my Bismarck, and had the ladder checked back in at 3 hours time. Planning out the job ahead really makes things go smoothly.👍

 

aztropic 

Mesa, Arizona 

You go right the hell ahead! Come visit and I'll have you do it . . . I'm too old for this ladder stuff. (Thought about that too.)

[alzo]

I heard they fall over backwards if scream expletives at them.

[Harry’s Palms]

Be super careful my friend! We need you and these palms are heavy enough to make angels. I know you have more to do and every one of them can be deadly. Harry

[richnorm]

5 hours ago, DoomsDave said:

Tell me more about that 8 meter pole saw! Who makes it, where'd you get it how much was it? 

https://www.thewarehouse.co.nz/p/detachable-pole-pruning-saw-8m-tree-trimmer-saw-shearing/M35933274.html?srsltid=AfmBOoqky_t1lEeb_ukZqVmgEp-_yyIkSHzlEB9JfcXXWNzCfdeCaCLDDr0  It's close to this one.  Poles screw together very securely and there are two heads (one pruner and one saw).  I bought a good quality blade but honestly it came with two which are really good. Dirt cheap!  I have a large Monterrey pine above a Jubaea hybird and was easily able to log and lower a large limb in sections which was obstructing growth. I also did the same with a huge Schizolobium. The blade has a hook which allows you to place the ropes easily.  

[sonoranfans]

Most expensive palm you will ever buy is the tall one who needs a trim every two years.  I never envisioned having to cut down my archies or royals.  I have to trim my phoenix rupicolas but I don't think they will ever get tall enough to out grow my 18' pole saw.  The longer the pole saw, the harder it is to use.  As time has gone by I have appreciated the palms that self shed and don't grow to the sky so fast.  Slow growth is good!

Dave, how old were those archies?  And did you ultimately find the maxima to be a bigger palm than the others?

[DoomsDave]

1 hour ago, sonoranfans said:

Most expensive palm you will ever buy is the tall one who needs a trim every two years.  I never envisioned having to cut down my archies or royals.  I have to trim my phoenix rupicolas but I don't think they will ever get tall enough to out grow my 18' pole saw.  The longer the pole saw, the harder it is to use.  As time has gone by I have appreciated the palms that self shed and don't grow to the sky so fast.  Slow growth is good!

Dave, how old were those archies?  And did you ultimately find the maxima to be a bigger palm than the others?

My big Archies are about 15-20 years old from seed. Which they produce prodigious quantities of. I’d say tuckeri and the late Slapsie Maxie were roughly the same size.

[Stevetoad]

Some interesting ideas here. I never thought about killing the palm and letting it desiccate and dry up before whacking g it down. seems like a smart idea to have it do less damage.  

[DoomsDave]

5 hours ago, Stevetoad said:

Some interesting ideas here. I never thought about killing the palm and letting it desiccate and dry up before whacking g it down. seems like a smart idea to have it do less damage.  

I agree, but the rub appears to be how to kill it if you can’t do the orthodox chop off the head method.

[sonoranfans]

18 hours ago, Stevetoad said:

Some interesting ideas here. I never thought about killing the palm and letting it desiccate and dry up before whacking g it down. seems like a smart idea to have it do less damage.  

LOL I am currently watching a neighbor who had a broken irrigation system in sand.  4 royals are wasteing away even with our (NOT THIS YEARS) rains.  They shrivel up from the grow point down.  It takes a few years for them to come down.  If you think aobut it and use Google AI's estimate of 63-64% water from an oil palm, it means 2/3rds of the weight can be lost in dessication.  And it occurs from the top down so the tendency to topple shrinks with dessication/time.   Ive also seen abandoned field nurseries where some royals waste away.   The guy up the street has 3of 4 where the crownshafts are gone and the trunk is continuing to dry up and dissappear top down.  I walk my dog by there everyday.  As the thing dries out and loses height there will be less of a damage risk dropping it.  I have thought about this a lot as I do have a fat royal with 25' of clear trunk.  Its not a coke bottle so much.  I'd say 28 in ch minimum trunk diameter with a max probably 5" more than that.  A simple calculation on water weight is using water alone based on 64lb ft3 says that tree is 8000 lbs of water in the trunk with one third of that wood which is not counted in the weight.  I would estimate 10,000 lbs for the trunk overall if wood is 0.8 the density of water and 33% the volume of the trunk.  Who wants to chop down such a tree and then have to carry those 5 tons of wet trunk away?  It could easily be 1/3rd of that weight and if you let it dry out and crumble you have mulch you can spread, and not have to carry away at all.  Im still thinking about it for the day if it comes in my lifetime.