Well, that happened! Livistona fulva rapid decline.

[Jonathan]

This L fulva went from healthy to this in under two weeks...no idea what happened but there are six others within a 5m radius that all look like the healthy one below. This is in a fairly wild part of the garden, hence the weeds, but I don't think that's a factor. Rainfall has been reasonable lately, temperature mild to warm.

The patch of dead grass immediately below the victim is very suspicious, I suspect something fungal maybe.

Any thoughts?

[Phoenikakias]

Check for Rhizoctonia or Thielaviopsis. Imo this plant is already a goner, at least take advantage of its demise and bring the whole plant to an expert for autopsy and biopsy. Sorry to say it, but it is is possible that fungus will spread out in the future to the rest of your palms through mycelia unless you resort to biological or chemical prevention.  But first you have to make sure of the culprit. Btw my first fulva in the ground had the same death symptoms. I did not verify the actual death cause, of which omission am still very sorry, but this particular part of the garden was heavily infested by Rhizoctonia.  

[happypalms]

Hmm no fertiliser I take it. Phytophera I suspect! Patch of dead grass African black beetle grub may have had a go at the roots or even eaten up the middle to the heart, that cane grub is a pain. 

[Jonathan]

1 hour ago, Phoenikakias said:

Check for Rhizoctonia or Thielaviopsis. Imo this plant is already a goner, at least take advantage of its demise and bring the whole plant to an expert for autopsy and biopsy. Sorry to say it, but it is is possible that fungus will spread out in the future to the rest of your palms through mycelia unless you resort to biological or chemical prevention.  But first you have to make sure of the culprit. Btw my first fulva in the ground had the same death symptoms. I did not verify the actual death cause, of which omission am still very sorry, but this particular part of the garden was heavily infested by Rhizoctonia.  

Agreed, I reckon it's a goner, just wondering why, and like you mentioned, it would be good to prevent any further infections. I'll look into Rhizoctonia and Thielaviopsis, thanks for the heads up.

[Jonathan]

37 minutes ago, happypalms said:

Hmm no fertiliser I take it. Phytophera I suspect! Patch of dead grass African black beetle grub may have had a go at the roots or even eaten up the middle to the heart, that cane grub is a pain. 

Probably not fertilizer...I only use organics but just thinking about this, I did put a decent heap of dynamic lifter or some similar chook poop fertilizer on them a while back. Maybe phosphorus burn? Can't imagine it was enough to cause that amount of damage though??

Cane grubs would freeze to death down here, wouldn't they Richard!?!

[happypalms]

16 minutes ago, Jonathan said:

Probably not fertilizer...I only use organics but just thinking about this, I did put a decent heap of dynamic lifter or some similar chook poop fertilizer on them a while back. Maybe phosphorus burn? Can't imagine it was enough to cause that amount of damage though??

Cane grubs would freeze to death down here, wouldn't they Richard!?!

I would freeze to death down there, so I can’t see why a grub wouldn’t. Organic xtra the pelletised chicken poo is a no no in my garden it has all that extra potash and stuff. I have burned palms before with it. So now it’s just dynamic lifter for me it is only sawdust and chicken poo. The organic xtra not for me and my garden. This is where a garden diary is handy to have, what did I do and when certainly helps.

[Jonathan]

9 hours ago, happypalms said:

I would freeze to death down there, so I can’t see why a grub wouldn’t. Organic xtra the pelletised chicken poo is a no no in my garden it has all that extra potash and stuff. I have burned palms before with it. So now it’s just dynamic lifter for me it is only sawdust and chicken poo. The organic xtra not for me and my garden. This is where a garden diary is handy to have, what did I do and when certainly helps.

Interesting. I'd never heard of Organic Xtra, it looks quite good though, with all the added bells and whistles, maybe in small doses perhaps?

Here's the analysis of the one I use most regularly, pretty basic but have had no problems with it in the past. Citrate soluble phosphorus is slow release, so can't imagine that's an issue. 

 

[happypalms]

1 hour ago, Jonathan said:

Interesting. I'd never heard of Organic Xtra, it looks quite good though, with all the added bells and whistles, maybe in small doses perhaps?

Here's the analysis of the one I use most regularly, pretty basic but have had no problems with it in the past. Citrate soluble phosphorus is slow release, so can't imagine that's an issue. 

 

Organic xtra you havent heard of that one because we keep all the good stuff for ourselves up here. Perhaps I used a bit too much on my marojejya darinii in the container at the time and I almost lost it, so iam scared of it now. But for in the ground it should be fine. Your fulva to pack up and die the way it did just suddenly it may have been a fungus. I take it Phytophera is in Tassie. Perhaps just to cold and wet, was your soil amended if so that could e the source of the problem. The one I got from you is doing fine in the ground in my garden! 

[Tyrone]

I use pelletised chicken manure all the time even in the planting hole with soil I remove from my chicken pen and have never had an adverse reaction. I use Rooster Booster from that nationwide chain of stores that starts with B then a U. You get it. I very much doubt the problem is fertiliser burn. Only roundup destroys that quickly (2 weeks)

Anyway I think it is a soil pathogen that has killed it stone dead. I’ve had similar things happen here in wetter areas and sort of randomly. Normally the main spear stalls, rots out, then falls over leaving the older leaves intact but the palm is essentially dead then. For all the leaves to give up at once though kind of says a root disease/pathogen. 

[Jonathan]

9 hours ago, Tyrone said:

I use pelletised chicken manure all the time even in the planting hole with soil I remove from my chicken pen and have never had an adverse reaction. I use Rooster Booster from that nationwide chain of stores that starts with B then a U. You get it. I very much doubt the problem is fertiliser burn. Only roundup destroys that quickly (2 weeks)

Anyway I think it is a soil pathogen that has killed it stone dead. I’ve had similar things happen here in wetter areas and sort of randomly. Normally the main spear stalls, rots out, then falls over leaving the older leaves intact but the palm is essentially dead then. For all the leaves to give up at once though kind of says a root disease/pathogen. 

Yep, I suspect that's the case, weirdly  it's not in a wet spot but on a pretty steep, well drained slope.

Rooster Booster is my go-to fertiliser too...that's what the analysis table above is from. Good stuff!

[happypalms]

2 hours ago, Jonathan said:

Yep, I suspect that's the case, weirdly  it's not in a wet spot but on a pretty steep, well drained slope.

Rooster Booster is my go-to fertiliser too...that's what the analysis table above is from. Good stuff!

You gotta try five in one it’s the go! 

[tim_brissy_13]

3 hours ago, Jonathan said:

Yep, I suspect that's the case, weirdly  it's not in a wet spot but on a pretty steep, well drained slope.

Rooster Booster is my go-to fertiliser too...that's what the analysis table above is from. Good stuff!

Is the soil quite sandy Jonathan? It kind of looks a bit like nematode damage - it tends to cause very quick decline in all fronds leaving a bit of green in the spear. I quick way to check is to rip out the palm and check for nodules on the roots. Really just a bit of a wild stab in the dark and I’m not really experienced at all with soil pathogens. I would say though that I’d almost certainly rule out fertiliser burn. As Tyrone says, no way it’s going to do that much damage that quickly. 
 

Co incidentally my L fulva declined this summer. But much more slowly. I dug it out a couple of months ago and put it in a pot. I suspect in was in too deep shade and possibly drainage issue, but honestly the soil seemed ok when I dug it. Perhaps as a species they are a bit sensitive to various issues at this size (mine is a similar size to yours above). 

[Phoenikakias]

52 minutes ago, tim_brissy_13 said:

Is the soil quite sandy Jonathan? It kind of looks a bit like nematode damage - it tends to cause very quick decline in all fronds leaving a bit of green in the spear. I quick way to check is to rip out the palm and check for nodules on the roots. Really just a bit of a wild stab in the dark and I’m not really experienced at all with soil pathogens. I would say though that I’d almost certainly rule out fertiliser burn. As Tyrone says, no way it’s going to do that much damage that quickly. 
 

Co incidentally my L fulva declined this summer. But much more slowly. I dug it out a couple of months ago and put it in a pot. I suspect in was in too deep shade and possibly drainage issue, but honestly the soil seemed ok when I dug it. Perhaps as a species they are a bit sensitive to various issues at this size (mine is a similar size to yours above). 

Co incidentally nr 2 an expert inspected my declining Chamaedorea microspadix clamp and put me uproot a whole sucker, in order to check for nematodes, but it turned out finally Rhizoctonia.

[Jonathan]

8 hours ago, tim_brissy_13 said:

Is the soil quite sandy Jonathan? It kind of looks a bit like nematode damage - it tends to cause very quick decline in all fronds leaving a bit of green in the spear. I quick way to check is to rip out the palm and check for nodules on the roots. Really just a bit of a wild stab in the dark and I’m not really experienced at all with soil pathogens. I would say though that I’d almost certainly rule out fertiliser burn. As Tyrone says, no way it’s going to do that much damage that quickly. 
 

Co incidentally my L fulva declined this summer. But much more slowly. I dug it out a couple of months ago and put it in a pot. I suspect in was in too deep shade and possibly drainage issue, but honestly the soil seemed ok when I dug it. Perhaps as a species they are a bit sensitive to various issues at this size (mine is a similar size to yours above). 

This is down at Cradoc Tim, duplex soil, so sandy loam over clay, with a hardpan about 100mm thick between the two, maybe 300mm down. We've deep ripped to 600mm and planted into the riplines, drains freely.

I'm thinking fungal issues most likely, though haven't had any other issues like this so far.

[PalmatierMeg]

I’ve tried fulva and had no luck keeping it alive. Replaced it with L drudei, which is slow - not enough sun? - is doing well. Nematodes and fulva make sense.

[Jonathan]

11 hours ago, PalmatierMeg said:

I’ve tried fulva and had no luck keeping it alive. Replaced it with L drudei, which is slow - not enough sun? - is doing well. Nematodes and fulva make sense.

Maybe one of these boys crossed Bass Strait!

Would have thought drudei would do well for you Meg? I've seen them in habitat north of Townsville growing in sand nearly right on the beach. Pretty similar climate to south Florida, hot with cyclones!?!

On the other hand, the Blackdown Tablelands where fulva comes from can be pretty damn cold at night in winter.

[PalmatierMeg]

Jonathon, your info makes perfect sense. Fulva is likely too heat sensitive for my climate. Mine died so definitively I decided not to apply my "3 strikes" rule and go straight to "out".

BTW, last week I watched a Public Broadcast System documentary on some of the animals on Tasmania. Very cool. David Attenborough narrated and anything he does is great. Love that guy - 100 y.o. and still carrying on.