Bentinckia condapanna seedlings

[meridannight]

I successfully germinated these in 2023, and they've kind of grown and growing, but this species is not doing so well for me as my other palms. I have a very good track record with full tropical species of palm (Licuala mattanensis, for example, grows without a hitch for me) and most palm species I've tried so far are doing great and seem unkillable. For example, I have no issues with growing Livistona benthamii, Caryota kiriwongensis, Archontophoenix alexandrae, Hyophorbe verschaffeltii, Chrysalidocarpus leptocheilos, Astrocaryum standleyanum -- to name a few, all young palms of 2-5 years of age. 

But my Bentinckia seedlings just look unsightly. Are they more difficult when young? Do they not want temps above 25ºC (80ºF) for long periods? My growth environment is at 25C/80F and up for 10 months a year. Only drops colder for a couple of months during winter, down to ca 18-20ºC/64-70ºF. Humidity is 60-90%. They're in a shaded position, never having got full sun exposure. They've had plenty of water, I water them pretty much the same as my Chrysalidocarpus leptocheilos. Should I be watering them more like my Archontophoenix alexandrae (I haven't been giving them that much water)? They are in containers. They get fertilized, with additional Fe, Mg supplementation.

I really like this species and would love it to get it to grow for me. I know sometimes some seedlings are runts, and there's nothing to do about that. Just thought I'd ask if it strikes people as odd with all the other species I'm successfully growing that these don't do well for me. I'm about to transplant them tonight, and I'll take a few pictures of how bad they look at 3 years of age.

[flplantguy]

They don't like hot night temps, their native range is higher elevation in the Western Ghat's and is more subtropical in temperatures than tropical. They struggle in Florida most of the time due to this. I have seedlings that are doing well with cool weather for now but summer will be hard on them, however they arrived from Hawaii in August during a heatwave and survived so they are not hugely wimpy. 

[happypalms]

This may sound a bit awkward but you have to change what you’re doing, as you say you can grow other varieties not a problem, this is because you are using the same technique. Look at what your doing, and do it differently too what you normally do. This could mean less water or fertiliser, more air or light, perhaps more shade, even your soil mix . Whatever your doing change it, look at your climatic conditions low humidity high humidity, cool conditions. Also a change is as good as a holiday. Bit without change you’re not going to make difference, only get the same results failure. Think like a plant! 

[meridannight]

Here they are, total runts.
I would understand if this was a result of some sort of change, but they have always been like this for me. Ever since they germinated. Leaf tips brown easily, or rather, half the leaf browns easily. And just slow and unattractive. The growth itself is steady and stable, they just never make healthy-looking leaves. The seeds were not fresh, but they germinated readily. Seeds were definitely Bentinckia condapanna. So, maybe the fact that the seeds were already quite aged, maybe that's where the reason lies (I have got runts from old seeds of other plants before, but not from palm seeds). 

They did have mealies for a while, 1.5 years ago. But those got eradicated already long ago.

Anyway, they have now been repotted. No root rot. The potting medium always stays moist, but drains very well. They were started from seed in August 2023. They had been in the same container since December 2023. I'll try and see if I can get them to do better, but if they keep it up like this I see little reason to keep a spot for them. I'll have to try again when fresh seeds show up. 

 

 

[meridannight]

7 hours ago, flplantguy said:

They don't like hot night temps, their native range is higher elevation in the Western Ghat's and is more subtropical in temperatures than tropical. They struggle in Florida most of the time due to this. I have seedlings that are doing well with cool weather for now but summer will be hard on them, however they arrived from Hawaii in August during a heatwave and survived so they are not hugely wimpy. 

Hm. I will have to see if I can't find a cooler night spot for them then. My nights are not that cool. Maybe 23ºC/73ºF, not much of a cooldown in their growth environment. I do keep them in a growth house where the temps just don't drop much during the night time.

I did research them when I started growing them, but either I missed the fact that they need a night time cooldown, or --more likely-- decided to try regardless of my nights staying hot.

[meridannight]

4 hours ago, happypalms said:

This may sound a bit awkward but you have to change what you’re doing, as you say you can grow other varieties not a problem, this is because you are using the same technique.

I do use the same technique as for some of my other palms. They get more or less the same treatment and live in the same conditions as my Licuala mattanensis var. paucisecta, Chrysalidocarpus leptocheilos, and Caryota kiriwongensis. They're watered regularly, but not as much as A. alexandrae or Livistona benthamii which are soaked and sometimes kept with wet feet.

Thanks for the advice. I already moved 2 of them to a different spot after transplanting. Will see if it helps.



 

[happypalms]

1 minute ago, meridannight said:

I do use the same technique as for some of my other palms. They get more or less the same treatment and live in the same conditions as my Licuala mattanensis var. paucisecta, Chrysalidocarpus leptocheilos, and Caryota kiriwongensis. They're watered regularly, but not as much as A. alexandrae or Livistona benthamii which are soaked and sometimes kept with wet feet.

Thanks for the advice. I already moved 2 of them to a different spot after transplanting. Will see if it helps.



 

The mix you have them in is wrong, the great germinater Merc psilakis (rip) had all of his seedlings in a mix very similar looking to you’re one, everyone who got his plants had trouble growing them after receiving them. The word was out that if you had his plants repot them!

[meridannight]

Here are my Caryota kiriwongensis, Licuala mattanensis var. paucisecta, Chrysalidocarpus leptocheilos, and Livistona benthamii (Golden version). Not pampering these others in any way. They just grow nicely on their own.



 

[meridannight]

1 minute ago, happypalms said:

The mix you have them in is wrong,

Okay. It's loam, perlite, vermiculite, and coco coir. No peat moss. 

[happypalms]

14 minutes ago, meridannight said:

Okay. It's loam, perlite, vermiculite, and coco coir. No peat moss. 

A good mix I use is coco coir 60 percent 25 percent good quality potting mix and 15 percent perlite, also a volcanic crushed rock powder a few handfuls to a wheelbarrow load. You can tweak the recipe to your preference, it’s a warm mix for tropical plants in the cool climates. Good luck.

[flplantguy]

The look tells me heat for sure, aim for 55 to 65 at night (65 to 79 is ok too) and 75 to 85 days (can be hotter if nights are cooler) and they will be happier. High humidity of course. I did some digging into some weather stations in their native range, and it's quite a bit cooler than one would think at the latitude sometimes. A grower in Sri Lanka stated ver confidently that they must be at elevation there and the other species at low elevation. Maybe try Bentinkia nicobarica if you can and see how it does in that warmth.  It will not tolerate chill at all compared to condapana.

[realarch]

Your climate, wherever you are, sounds similar to mine here in Hilo, although not sure of your rainfall. B. condapanna are vigorous growers here, practically exploding out of the pots after the seedling stage. Your’s appear to be stretched, so obviously not getting enough light. B. condapanna here go into full sun at an early age and I just use a mix of half garden soil and half commercial mix and let them go. We usually get enough rainfall that supplemental watering isn’t necessary. Once germinated, they grow outside under shade cloth before going into full sun. One caveat, Hilo full sun is a bit different because of our cloud cover, high humidity and high rainfall. 

I’ll have to dig up a few photos and post. 

Good luck.

Tim

[realarch]

Here’s a photo of B. condapanna seedlings almost ready to be planted out. 

Tim

[Kim]

People in Southern California are successfully growing these where night temps can be cold, as in low 40sF.  Listing your location as Tropical Lair is clever but not especially helpful when seeking advice. Take your Bentinckia palms out of those smothering "growth house" conditions to an outdoor location where they can get some fresh air and sunlight. Unless you are in snowy conditions, of course. ❓

[Jonathan]

10 minutes ago, Kim said:

Listing your location as Tropical Lair is clever but not especially helpful when seeking advice.

This is a good point...its pretty hard for anyone to help you with climate specific advice if you insist on using enigmatic location details. 

Until further evidence is provided, my guess is your tropical lair is in England, lol.

[richnorm]

These are magnets for sucking insects and want to be grown in the weather.  You may have mites causing that leaf damage.

[tim_brissy_13]

Just my self indulgent contribution to this thread - I’m pretty proud of this one. 
 

Comments above are correct. These are tolerant of cool and even occasional cold nights. Mind in Melb, Aus occasionally has frost settle on the fronds with temps down to -1.5C /29F. Last winter we had about 10 frosts with temps at or below 2C/36F and the monthly average minimum temperature during the coldest month was barely above 5C/41F. Only minor cold spotting as a result. It’s also seen a few days up around 44C / 111F with very low humidity this summer and shown no ill effects to occasional exposure to these conditions. Our night times nearly always cool down significantly which may help. For reference, this one is in an east facing garden. It gets filtered morning sun until about midday. 
 

Happy to have this one growing here. There aren’t many palms that can grow here with those huge pinnate leaflets divided at random which just appears so tropical like in many Pinanga and Areca sp. 

[meridannight]

13 hours ago, flplantguy said:

The look tells me heat for sure, aim for 55 to 65 at night (65 to 79 is ok too) and 75 to 85 days (can be hotter if nights are cooler) and they will be happier. High humidity of course. I did some digging into some weather stations in their native range, and it's quite a bit cooler than one would think at the latitude sometimes. A grower in Sri Lanka stated ver confidently that they must be at elevation there and the other species at low elevation. Maybe try Bentinkia nicobarica if you can and see how it does in that warmth.  It will not tolerate chill at all compared to condapana.

I think you're right. I've been reading over what Florida growers have posted on growing these, and Florida is usually a pretty good gauge for what I can and cannot grow (I'm aware inland Florida is different than coastal, and I've counted with that). I'm never gonna get 55º nights here. As soon as April rolls around it'll be 90-95ºF during the day and around 77ºF at night. I have kept them in a growth house which always keeps nights warmer than outside, so it looks like they're moving out now. But it is what it is, unless I throw them into the fridge for the nights, it's never going down to 12ºC/55ºF. 

Thanks for your input. I will keep them as cool as I can during night time, but it might not be good enough for them (in which case I will try to rehome them with someone who has more suitable conditions). I will look into nicobarica, they look nice although not as colorful. But probably a better idea for me. 

[meridannight]

6 hours ago, realarch said:

Your climate, wherever you are, sounds similar to mine here in Hilo, although not sure of your rainfall. 

B. condapanna are vigorous growers here, practically exploding out of the pots after the seedling stage. Your’s appear to be stretched, so obviously not getting enough light. B. condapanna here go into full sun at an early age and I just use a mix of half garden soil and half commercial mix and let them go. We usually get enough rainfall that supplemental watering isn’t necessary.

I'm somewhere between Hawaii and coastal Florida in climatic terms, I would put it. My rainfall is not as good as yours, about half as much as Hilo. I do need to water during the summer, usually daily if it's sunny. Out they go now, and I will acclimate them to full sun and see how they do. Thanks for your help.
 

[meridannight]

5 hours ago, Jonathan said:

This is a good point...its pretty hard for anyone to help you with climate specific advice if you insist on using enigmatic location details. 

My location won't help much, as there aren't other growers from where I am over here on these forums. And I am aware I am not getting climate-specific advice. Answers will still give me context and reference. I've been able to successfully grow many different species of palm, all following advice/descriptions from growers from other parts of the world and by looking up the species native environment. It's not true you only need advice from other local growers to be able to understand what a plant needs. 

In this age of online tracking and AI, I am simply not giving out any personal details about myself on the internet at large, and that includes my specific location. Think of that how you please, that is my right.

***
Thanks for everyone who offered advice.

 

[Kim]

Don't instantly move them to direct all-day sun. Only morning exposure for maybe 2-4 hours to start. See how they do. Gradually shift them to more sun if they are responding positively. 

[meridannight]

3 hours ago, Kim said:

Don't instantly move them to direct all-day sun. Only morning exposure for maybe 2-4 hours to start. See how they do. Gradually shift them to more sun if they are responding positively. 

Yup. They'll go out into a shade first, then to lighter shade, till eventually full sun. I've burned my plants before being too quick with acclimating them to full sun, so I'll err on the slow side. 

[Jonathan]

6 hours ago, meridannight said:

My location won't help much, as there aren't other growers from where I am over here on these forums. And I am aware I am not getting climate-specific advice. Answers will still give me context and reference. I've been able to successfully grow many different species of palm, all following advice/descriptions from growers from other parts of the world and by looking up the species native environment. It's not true you only need advice from other local growers to be able to understand what a plant needs. 

In this age of online tracking and AI, I am simply not giving out any personal details about myself on the internet at large, and that includes my specific location. Think of that how you please, that is my right.

***
Thanks for everyone who offered advice.

 

That's all good.

Everyone has their own threshold for privacy...I figure that if my details haven't been stolen, sold and abused 100 times already then I'm well ahead of the game!

Hope your Bentinkias pull their socks up and get on with life.

[Jonathan]

9 hours ago, tim_brissy_13 said:

Just my self indulgent contribution to this thread - I’m pretty proud of this one. 
 

Comments above are correct. These are tolerant of cool and even occasional cold nights. Mind in Melb, Aus occasionally has frost settle on the fronds with temps down to -1.5C /29F. Last winter we had about 10 frosts with temps at or below 2C/36F and the monthly average minimum temperature during the coldest month was barely above 5C/41F. Only minor cold spotting as a result. It’s also seen a few days up around 44C / 111F with very low humidity this summer and shown no ill effects to occasional exposure to these conditions. Our night times nearly always cool down significantly which may help. For reference, this one is in an east facing garden. It gets filtered morning sun until about midday. 
 

Happy to have this one growing here. There aren’t many palms that can grow here with those huge pinnate leaflets divided at random which just appears so tropical like in many Pinanga and Areca sp. 

Good stuff Tim, I think that's worthy of a bit of self indulgence! Would not have suspected this would survive in Melbourne, but that probably applies to most of your garden. Well done!