Pindo, Mule or Alfredii for front yard?

March 1

13 hours ago, TropicsEnjoyer said:

ok that’s understandable, i prefer pinnates too. just was making a suggestion. a royal would look really nice if you do get one, as long as you’re willing to deal with the fronds that drop periodically. i was thinking Phoenix rupicola would look great too, but you say you want a statement not an accent

This is why these forums are awesome. I have never thought of this palm. I think it looks very nice. General nurseries don’t carry these, they’re not really palm geeks in my area. I’ve asked multiple people here where to go, but no one responds. I wish there was a list of preferred nurseries. That would make things easy.

I think I’m gonna go with the Pindo. Its hardy, survives my climate well and looks good.

March 1

On 2/26/2026 at 8:07 PM, SCVpalmenthusiast said:

These are averages. The summer is hotter than that in recent years. It’s probably 98 degrees on average from July to September. But tbh the winter is mild. The lowest temperature this winter has been 35 degrees for an hour or two in the morning last week. Ive never seen below freezing in the 13 years I’ve lived here. But historically its had some temps drop below freezing in some of the foothill areas.

The biggest problem with tropical palms isn’t the cold its the dry heat in the summer. The fronds get fried from lack of moisture. That’s why palms like Kentias or kings need to be under a canopy in the shade where there isn’t intense sun. At least that’s what im told. A lot of these nurseries would probably say your garden in Nor Cal is impossible lol.

The moisture in the summer is the killer. The royals are used to Florida high heat with high humidity. I wish I could grow those. My taste is very tropical 😭

I lived near phoenix arizona for 10 years, so arid I do understand. 110F+ 32 days a year and 6% humidity in the 105-110 degree range in spring. I understand the arid question, and roytals will do better than kentias and kings in that kind of arid. That said royals need water to be happy, plenty of water in an arid climate. Kings(cunninghamiana) dont like direct sun in florida either, they look unhappy in direct half day sun here. Majesty are slow growers, so if you want a 25' tree in less than 10 years its not a majesty. the size of the open area above ground matters, some of these like a royal will get wide and drop big leaves. Looks like you want an accent tree, not shade. I suggest you take some of the palms that are recommended and look at some pics to decide what you like. In that climate in a smallish spot I might pick a braea clara, thought hey are not crownshafted, the leaves of a blue one are gorgeous and they get white inflorescences plus they are very desert compatible. They do grow more slowly, almost like a majesty.

March 1

2 hours ago, sonoranfans said:

I lived near phoenix arizona for 10 years, so arid I do understand. 110F+ 32 days a year and 6% humidity in the 105-110 degree range in spring. I understand the arid question, and roytals will do better than kentias and kings in that kind of arid. That said royals need water to be happy, plenty of water in an arid climate. Kings(cunninghamiana) dont like direct sun in florida either, they look unhappy in direct half day sun here. Majesty are slow growers, so if you want a 25' tree in less than 10 years its not a majesty. the size of the open area above ground matters, some of these like a royal will get wide and drop big leaves. Looks like you want an accent tree, not shade. I suggest you take some of the palms that are recommended and look at some pics to decide what you like. In that climate in a smallish spot I might pick a braea clara, thought hey are not crownshafted, the leaves of a blue one are gorgeous and they get white inflorescences plus they are very desert compatible. They do grow more slowly, almost like a majesty.

I want a center piece tree. Here’s my vision a pindo palm as the anchor. A burgundy cordyline australis, red and orange dipladenias, calla lillies, to the side of the pindo birds of paradise, at the base soft tip agave, burnt burgundy agave. Something like this, this is survives well in my climate. A mixture of tropical and Mediterranean.

Im not an experienced palm grower, I would love a royal palm, but I don’t have the confidence that it would survive or look good. I definitely want to grow some more tropical palms in the backyard where I can experiment. Do you guys recommend buying small ones online? That way if they die its not a huge financial burden.

Edited March 1 by SCVpalmenthusiast
Added last part

March 1

There are private growers that can help you . I have met them here on Palm Talk. You may have to drive an hour or so but the experience is priceless. I met @DoomsDave here a couple years ago ( has it really been that long?) and made a couple trips to his jungle . He has very good knowledge and experience to share , not to mention some very friendly kitty cats that patrol his garden. Not like going to a nursery , or buying on line( not for me) . He has introduced me to some palms that I would not have thought about on my own . All of them are growing very well . The bonus is spending time with Dave , never disappointing. A few “gems” that came home with me. Harry

Cyphophoenix Nucele

‘Dypsis Lanceolata ( now Chrysalidiocarpus)

Rohpalostylus Bauri Cheesemania

I have 5 or so Chamaedorea Ernesti Augusti that came home

Dypsis Basilonga on the left and Chamaedorea Plumosa on the right.

March 1

3 hours ago, SCVpalmenthusiast said:

I want a center piece tree. Here’s my vision a pindo palm as the anchor. A burgundy cordyline australis, red and orange dipladenias, calla lillies, to the side of the pindo birds of paradise, at the base soft tip agave, burnt burgundy agave. Something like this, this is survives well in my climate. A mixture of tropical and Mediterranean.

Can't argue with that! Happy planting and growing!

March 2

I found a place called palm plantation that have the alfredii at the size I want. Im in a dilemma now. Which should I choose? IMG_5206.jpeg.399e67fc555de361f3b0709e98238315.jpeg

Everything I read says they can handle high heat and are hardy to 25 degrees. I don’t think we’ve ever been lower. At least not within the last 20-30 years.

Anyone have any experience with coconut queens? Are they worth the higher price tag? Will they provide the tropical look im after?

Edited March 2 by SCVpalmenthusiast
Queen edit

March 2

3 hours ago, SCVpalmenthusiast said:

I found a place called palm plantation that have the alfredii at the size I want. Im in a dilemma now. Which should I choose?

Everything I read says they can handle high heat and are hardy to 25 degrees. I don’t think we’ve ever been lower. At least not within the last 20-30 years.

Anyone have any experience with coconut queens? Are they worth the higher price tag? Will they provide the tropical look im after?

I think that’s a majesty there. Double the frond length of the Pindo, and double the base size of the majesty for your model.

March 2

My only concern is the space. The Butia needs a radius of 6 to 8 feet. Beccariophoenix, double that. 12 to 15 ft radius for fronds.

March 2

4 hours ago, SeanK said:

My only concern is the space. The Butia needs a radius of 6 to 8 feet. Beccariophoenix, double that. 12 to 15 ft radius for fronds.

How about the coco queen?

March 2

A rupicola is a statement tree and more sun tough than butias. I had a butia in arizona, the summer sun was tough on it, it obviously yellowed on a number of the older leaves, it loved winter though. A Phoenix rupicola is a very tropical looking, very sun tough palm. I planted mine because of how beautiful they were at treeland in chandler arizona. They are good to a cold 9B, maybe a warm 9A. I have a triple, its a big statement but you can see this shot focuses on one of them. They never look pale or yellowish. Even now we are in a severe 5 month drought (we are only allowed 1 water day a week) they look happy. Rupicolas are subject to a 6 month dry season in habitat. The ones in arizona looked just like mine, bright green.

March 2

1 hour ago, sonoranfans said:

A rupicola is a statement tree and more sun tough than butias. I had a butia in arizona, the summer sun was tough on it, it obviously yellowed on a number of the older leaves, it loved winter though. A Phoenix rupicola is a very tropical looking, very sun tough palm. I planted mine because of how beautiful they were at treeland in chandler arizona. They are good to a cold 9B, maybe a warm 9A. I have a triple, its a big statement but you can see this shot focuses on one of them. They never look pale or yellowish. Even now we are in a severe 5 month drought (we are only allowed 1 water day a week) they look happy. Rupicolas are subject to a 6 month dry season in habitat. The ones in arizona looked just like mine, bright green.

Are they planted in groups like roebellinis? Is that a majesty behind?

March 2

1 hour ago, SCVpalmenthusiast said:

Are they planted in groups like roebellinis? Is that a majesty behind?

I bought (3) P. rupicola palms and planted it as a triple about 3-4' apart. The rupicola is about 10-12' wide in crown, a bigger palm than roebelinii. As a triple its kind of big(20'+ wide) THey appear more lush than roebeliniis as well, and the thorns are bendy at the base so stabbing injury can be easily avoided when trimming. My (9) roebeliniis(in AZ) stabbed me just about every time I trimmed them, and they put out 2-3 x more leaves a year than rupicola, so trimming is much more work. The palm behind them is an adult beccariophoenix alfredii, about 30' tall, 15 years in the ground from a 3 gallon. That BA was hit by a hurricane milton -up to 110 mph winds- 18 months ago and hasn't recovered to full crown. B. Affredii is a large palm, not for small yard spaces. Here is that BA before the hurricane.

March 2

3 minutes ago, sonoranfans said:

I bought (3) P. rupicola palms and planted it as a triple about 3-4' apart. The rupicola is about 10-12' wide in crown, a bigger palm than roebelinii. As a triple its kind of big(20'+ wide) THey appear more lush than roebeliniis as well, and the thorns are bendy at the base so stabbing injury can be easily avoided when trimming. My (9) roebeliniis(in AZ) stabbed me just about every time I trimmed them, and they put out 2-3 x more leaves a year than rupicola, so trimming is much more work. The palm behind them is an adult beccariophoenix alfredii, about 30' tall, 15 years in the ground from a 3 gallon. That BA was hit by a hurricane milton -up to 110 mph winds- 18 months ago and hasn't recovered to full crown. B. Affredii is a large palm, not for small yard spaces. Here is that BA before the hurricane.

That looks amazing 🤩 my yard is large and I have a two story, im replacing a 25 ft tree that’s wide as well.

I talked to a palm grower from Riverside, similar climate and even further inland. He says he grows Royals from seed. What do you think? Should I gamble, is it a gamble? He’s adamant that its not. They grow well.

March 2

25 minutes ago, SCVpalmenthusiast said:

That looks amazing 🤩 my yard is large and I have a two story, im replacing a 25 ft tree that’s wide as well.

I talked to a palm grower from Riverside, similar climate and even further inland. He says he grows Royals from seed. What do you think? Should I gamble, is it a gamble? He’s adamant that its not. They grow well.

If you want a fast growing large palm and the planting site is at least 12- 15' from where you park your car I could see a nice royal there. Royals are tougher than butias in hot direct sun, but they need plenty of water in the heat. A falling royal palm leaf is no joke, they are big enough to really damage your car, and to hurt you. I have two, and plant nothing underneath for about 12-15 feet from the trunk. I expect a royal will do very well there as riverside is far cooler than arizona and they can take arizona heat/sun. I love royals, but my (2) are placed knowing big leaves weighing up to 60+ lbs with the crownshaft may fall. Here is my 100 lb labrador retriever tearing on a royal crownshaft that fell. He shredded it in one day. I use these for chew toys for him.

these can be 6 1/2 foot long in the crownshaft with a 20' leaf. The crownshaft is about 3/4 the weight before drying out so the damage will be from that crownshaft mostly and mine never fall that far from the trunk(12 feet). They don't always fall wet so the drier ones are less weight, but you don't want your car or any person under that.

Here is a pic of the rupicola triple just after the hurricane damage was removed. It grew back to the 1st rupicola pic above in one year. These have about 1/2 of a full crown of ~30 leaves.

March 2

3 minutes ago, sonoranfans said:

If you want a fast growing large palm and the planting site is at least 12- 15' from where you park your car I could see a nice royal there. Royals are tougher than butias in hot direct sun, but they need plenty of water int he heat. A falling royal palm leaf is no joke, they are big enough to realluy damage your car and to hurt you. I have two and plant nothing underneath for about 12-15 feet from he trunk. I expect a royal will do very well there as riverside is far cooler than arizona and they can take arizona heat. I love royals, but my (2) are placed knowing big leaves weighing up to 60+ lbs with the crownshaft may fall. Here is my 100 lb labrador retriever tearing on a royal crownshaft that fell. He shredded it in one day. I use these for chew toys for him.

these can be 6 1/2 foot long in the crownshaft with a 20' leaf. The crownshaft is about 3/4 the weight before drying out. They dont always fall wet but you dont want your car or any person under that.

Here is a pic of the rupicola triple just after the hurricane damage was removed. It grew back to the 1st rupicola pic above in one year. These have about 1/2 of a full crown of ~30 leaves.

The planting site is close to my driveway. Sounds like thats not the best choice. Those rupicolas are beautiful like a more elegant fatter roebellini

March 2

1 minute ago, SCVpalmenthusiast said:

The planting site is close to my driveway. Sounds like thats not the best choice. Those rupicolas are beautiful like a more elegant fatter roebellini

Yeh not close to the drive, too many people too much to damage. The rupicolas are much more beautiful than roebelinii to my eye, the pics dont do them justice. I planted them to have something cold hardy on the property edge, but these days they are one of my most beautiful palms, and they are easy care. They seemingly get more beautiful with age, glad I went with them cold hardy or not.

March 2

25 minutes ago, sonoranfans said:

Yeh not close to the drive, too many people too much to damage. The rupicolas are much more beautiful than roebelinii to my eye, the pics dont do them justice. I planted them to have something cold hardy on the property edge, but these days they are one of my most beautiful palms, and they are easy care. They seemingly get more beautiful with age, glad I went with them cold hardy or not.

What palm would you recommend for that spot?

March 2

Do you think I can get away with planting a royal palm here?

im removing the rose bushes and using the giant birds of paradise for screening.

March 2

2 hours ago, SCVpalmenthusiast said:

What palm would you recommend for that spot?

I am not a californian, so better information would come from DoomsDave or someone more familiar wiht that looks happiest and suits the traits you most desire. Looks like a real sunny spot in an inland desert area, the most survivable pinnate palms would be phoenix species, palmate palms that I like are bismarckia, brahea armata and brahea clara, sabal uresana (blue form). I am not confident I could pick the best pinnate palm for you there. I like a bismarckia for that spot myself or a double brahea clara(blue form), but they are both palmate palms of white, grey, powder blue color.

bismarckia

March 3

11 hours ago, SCVpalmenthusiast said:

How about the coco queen?

Coco Queen is about the same overall diameter as a Butia. Mine is a pretty fast grower in terms of height. Depending on what you want that could be good or bad. A Butia might be 1 foot per year, Coco Queen is maybe 2 or 3 feet per year...perhaps arohnd 2 feet?

In that spot I wouldn't do a Royal or Alfredii. Royals = frond BOOM as others noted. Alfredii would look ok there but I think would be waaaay too big. 15 foot fronds are typical, and I think my largest is closer to 20 feet. I regret planting one ~12 feet from the house...

I' go with a nice silver Butia, preferably one with twisty fronds.

March 3

It’s hard to appreciate how big Alfredii are from pictures. They are monsters.

March 3

I still think that for what you are trying to accomplish, it's hard to beat a well grown Becarriophoenix alfredi. Royals are very attractive palms. But, the falling leaves can be an issue. My 40 foot Royal palm has dropped leaves onto my roof and the sound is disconcerting. If it were to fall on a vehicle or (heaven forbid onto a person) it could be a real issue.

If you determine you have the space for one, it would be my choice. They do grow slowly. But they look good at all stages of growth. I'm in the Orlando area and we just had a once in 40 or 50 year cold event. I have a large Ficus tree that completely defoliated. My Adonidia palms are completely fried. I think everything will come back. But, for now, they look terrible. My Royal palm (40+ feet tall) is 80 to 90% defoliated but will come back. The good news in all of this is that my Becarriophoenix alfredi just laughed at the cold event and looks perfect.

Just my 2 cents...

March 3

I accept everyone wants pinnate palms, preferably crown shafted. What I will tell you as an oldster; the less maintenance, the better. Be honest with yourself regarding climate and drive to maintain.

Me, I'd drop a B.armata with 6 to 8 feet of trunk near the driveway. Water it first year then forget it. In semi-shade probably P.roebellini. Don't put anything out front that neighbors will see you wrapping or boxing. That stuff you should hide in the back. Dig a 30" hole and drop in a 24" inch pot with a lipstick palm. It'll be your secret.

March 3

19 hours ago, sonoranfans said:

I am not a californian, so better information would come from DoomsDave or someone more familiar wiht that looks happiest and suits the traits you most desire. Looks like a real sunny spot in an inland desert area, the most survivable pinnate palms would be phoenix species, palmate palms that I like are bismarckia, brahea armata and brahea clara, sabal uresana (blue form). I am not confident I could pick the best pinnate palm for you there. I like a bismarckia for that spot myself or a double brahea clara(blue form), but they are both palmate palms of white, grey, powder blue color.

bismarckia

Not my taste to be honest. I can appreciate it, but not something I would ever want myself. I will probably stick with the pindo. It’s just hardy but looks much better for my taste.

Santa Clarita, specifically Valencia isn’t considered a desert, but it is a transitional zone. It’s the transition from a coastal inland valley to high desert. Our climate is much different than the high desert which is 40 miles away. It’s much different than the coast which is 35 miles away. Best I can describe is we’re right in between. High desert will have lows of 30, we’ll be 38 and the beach would be 45.

March 3

2 hours ago, SeanK said:

I accept everyone wants pinnate palms, preferably crown shafted. What I will tell you as an oldster; the less maintenance, the better. Be honest with yourself regarding climate and drive to maintain.

Me, I'd drop a B.armata with 6 to 8 feet of trunk near the driveway. Water it first year then forget it. In semi-shade probably P.roebellini. Don't put anything out front that neighbors will see you wrapping or boxing. That stuff you should hide in the back. Dig a 30" hole and drop in a 24" inch pot with a lipstick palm. It'll be your secret.

My climate is pretty mild in winter, it’s mostly the summers im worried about. I don’t see myself having to wrap palms in lights and frost sheets. In the 13 years I’ve lived here Ive never seen it. There are pockets in the valley that experience this more, like Saugus and Canyon country closer to foothills.

But I’ve decided against the Royal. I think the pindo is the compromise. I get the pinnate fronds that look elegant and its hardy and can take summer heat.

March 3

10 minutes ago, SCVpalmenthusiast said:

But I’ve decided against the Royal. I think the pindo is the compromise. I get the pinnate fronds that look elegant and its hardy and can take summer heat.

You might not be aware, but there are three frond shapes on the regular ol' Pindo. The first is the common one, straight and arching. The second gets a pronounced "twist" to the fronds, so that new ones coming out tend to curve and wrap around the palm a bit. The third is pretty rare and called "Strictior" or something like that. It's mostly straight fronds with not much arch to them. For visual reference, here's my twisty one. They come out mostly straight and then start twisting to the left as they age. Some of them end up close to horizontal. I like all the forms, but this one is one of my personal favorites.

March 3

So what's your final choice?! Of all the suggestions, I would do a beccariophoenix.

March 3

11 minutes ago, Josue Diaz said:

So what's your final choice?! Of all the suggestions, I would do a beccariophoenix.

Haven’t made a choice yet, but 95% the pindo

it has the trunk size, the frond spread and is a nice specimen. But still getting photos of palms.

March 3

30 minutes ago, SCVpalmenthusiast said:

Haven’t made a choice yet, but 95% the pindo

it has the trunk size, the frond spread and is a nice specimen. But still getting photos of palms.

Pindos are small palms, I guess your front yard spot is smaller than I thought. Probably will do well in your area and they do grow slowly so getting a bigger one makes sense. That one will look a lot better -not so yellow and more leaves- once its established, it appears to have container fatigue. You should take a look at at BxJ a pindo(Butia) crossed with jubaea. THey are not uncommon in california. These are faster grower and will give a fuller wider crown but still pretty compact for smaller space.

Here is my BxJ, which I prefer. For scale the trunk is about 6" wider than the 24" box. Its a tough choice to have to choose just one palm!

March 3

The pindo vs the alfredii thoughts?

About $500 difference

March 3

1 minute ago, sonoranfans said:

Pindos are small palms, I guess your front yard spot is smaller than I thought. Probably will do well in your area and they do grow slowly so getting a bigger one makes sense. That one will look a lot better -not so yellow and more leaves- once its established, it appears to have container fatigue. You should take a look at at BxJ a pindo(Butia) crossed with jubaea. THey are not uncommon in california. These are faster grower and will give a fuller wider crown but still pretty compact for smaller space.

Here is my BxJ, which I prefer. Its a tough choice to have to choose just one palm!

It’s not a small yard, but its the size palm I can afford. Bigger 40+ inch boxes cost thousands and im getting a lot done. So I figure its big enough and has a wide spread.

March 3

1 minute ago, SCVpalmenthusiast said:

It’s not a small yard, but its the size palm I can afford. Bigger 40+ inch boxes cost thousands and im getting a lot done. So I figure its big enough and has a wide spread.

Its all relative many of the palms being compared to the pindo are 2x as wide in the crown. Pindos are generally less than 12' wide. That is a small palm by comparison to all the others being referenced.

March 3

The size you see in a boxed palm is typically much smaller than an established palm. For pindos that is not true in my observations. They get 8-10 feet wide here in the crown. I guess it depends on which pindo it is(butia odorata, butia yatay etc) Pindo is a tradename not a species. typically they are butias but butia yatay, butia capitata, butia odorata are what they sell as "pindos".

March 3

the alfredii or royal will be at least 2x as wide as a butia "X"

March 3

16 minutes ago, SCVpalmenthusiast said:

The pindo vs the alfredii thoughts?

About $500 difference

the alfredii has less than half a crown it will grow far wider than you see there, some leaves will be horizontal and green once established. Container palms will always be a limited in size by the small volume for roots to grow. Nurserymen will trim them up as the small roots cannot support so many leaves in that box.. I would get the alfredii, when both are grown in, it will have a much greater visual impact.

March 3

1 hour ago, sonoranfans said:

the alfredii has less than half a crown it will grow far wider than you see there, some leaves will be horizontal and green once established. Container palms will always be a limited in size by the small volume for roots to grow. Nurserymen will trim them up as the small roots cannot support so many leaves in that box.. I would get the alfredii, when both are grown in, it will have a much greater visual impact.

It will be near my driveway. Maybe not the best idea if it will impede the drive way.

March 3

Here in Florida, Butia sp. (Pindo) are everywhere. My issue with them is that they are so variable in appearance. Frankly, well grown specimens are the exception and not the rule. In my opinion, attractive specimens are also the exception and not the rule. Perhaps in California this is not the case...

On the other hand, Becarriophoenix alfredi, while by no means common, are beginning to be seen. If you haven't seen one in person I would encourage you to look into it further. This is truly a spectacular palm. And, I am not one to exaggerate. They don't seem prone to the variability seen in Pindos. If you are looking for a statement palm, I would strongly advise you to consider the Becarriophoenix alfredi. While it will cost you more to acquire, it will prove to be worth it. People are constantly asking me what kind of palm I have growing right in the center of my yard. And, as I stated previously, mine was completely unaffected by the cold event we experienced recently.

These palms get to be incredible monsters with time. In my opinion, you can't go wrong with a Becarriophoenix alfredi...

March 3

49 minutes ago, ck_in_fla said:

Here in Florida, Butia sp. (Pindo) are everywhere. My issue with them is that they are so variable in appearance. Frankly, well grown specimens are the exception and not the rule. In my opinion, attractive specimens are also the exception and not the rule. Perhaps in California this is not the case...

On the other hand, Becarriophoenix alfredi, while by no means common, are beginning to be seen. If you haven't seen one in person I would encourage you to look into it further. This is truly a spectacular palm. And, I am not one to exaggerate. They don't seem prone to the variability seen in Pindos. If you are looking for a statement palm, I would strongly advise you to consider the Becarriophoenix alfredi. While it will cost you more to acquire, it will prove to be worth it. People are constantly asking me what kind of palm I have growing right in the center of my yard. And, as I stated previously, mine was completely unaffected by the cold event we experienced recently.

These palms get to be incredible monsters with time. In my opinion, you can't go wrong with a Becarriophoenix alfredi...

I think you’re right! Im gonna go the alfredii. I thought about it and while settle for Toyota when I can get a lexus.

March 3

Im pulling the trigger on the alfredii

you guys are right, for a statement tree, no better than this for my climate.

March 3

Hopefully, that palm was not recently planted into the box. This species is one of those with very sensitive root systems that hates disturbance. With a tree that big,I'd guess the nursery will be doing the planting. Make sure they provide you a guarantee of survivability with the planting.👍

aztropic

Mesa, Arizona

WELCOME GUEST

Pindo, Mule or Alfredii for front yard?

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