Pindo, Mule or Alfredii for front yard?

[SCVpalmenthusiast]

I’m trying to figure out what would be the most aesthetic. Unfortunately, my climate can’t sustain king palms or Kentias without being in a good microclimate. I prefer tropical palms that have feather fronds to the fan palms. 
 

I wish I could do something like this, but I cant so what would be the next best thing? 

[Silas_Sancona]

Santa Clarita Valley?  .. Perhaps something  " ..Majestic "   ..AKA Ravenea rivularis.

Mule would be ok too,    ..just not as Majestic.. 

 

[SCVpalmenthusiast]

47 minutes ago, Silas_Sancona said:

Santa Clarita Valley?  .. Perhaps something  " ..Majestic "   ..AKA Ravenea rivularis.

Mule would be ok too,    ..just not as Majestic.. 

 

I think its like the kentia and king palm. It would only survive in partial shade, and a good microclimate in the yard. This would be right in the front exposed to full sun, wind, and potentially the occasional cold snaps we get every once in a while

[Harry’s Palms]

Butia are beautiful palms and make a statement if you have the room. Brahea are nice if time allows or you can find a large one. Brahea Edulis is the faster growing species but the silver coloring of the Armata is impressive. Ravenea Rivularis are nice but in the heat of summer would require a whole bunch of water and they easily damaged by dry winds. Harry

[SCVpalmenthusiast]

24 minutes ago, Harry’s Palms said:

Butia are beautiful palms and make a statement if you have the room. Brahea are nice if time allows or you can find a large one. Brahea Edulis is the faster growing species but the silver coloring of the Armata is impressive. Ravenea Rivularis are nice but in the heat of summer would require a whole bunch of water and they easily damaged by dry winds. Harry

I have a lot of space it’s replacing a 25-30 foot tree. Do you think the pindo butia would look better than a mule palm? One of the nurseries also recommended a silver foxtail queen, but Santa Clarita is the land of queen palms. I might as well get Starbucks wrapped Tesla and join the PTA. 

[Jim in Los Altos]

In your zone, there are lots of choices. Have you considered Royal palms? You have mild winters and heat in the summer, both of which would be favorable. 
 

[Silas_Sancona]

1 hour ago, SCVpalmenthusiast said:

I think its like the kentia and king palm. It would only survive in partial shade, and a good microclimate in the yard. This would be right in the front exposed to full sun, wind, and potentially the occasional cold snaps we get every once in a while

You have seen the "  Majesty Palms' Majesty " thread,  This one 👇 Right there..

    Handle sun better than either than Kentias or Kings.. 

Visually more tropical looking than Pindos..


Hardy enough to survive the occasional sub 30F mornings during the winter up in San Jose too..

[Harry’s Palms]

Again , Santa Clarita gets some very strong Santa Ana winds that Majesty Palms don’t like. Plus, it is a super arid environment out there .  The amount of water to keep a Majesty looking good in the summer would be enormous. Maybe a Roystonea Regia as @Jim in Los Altos suggests , but also like copious amounts of water . My Roystonea Oleracae doesn’t get torn up by the wind the way my Ravenea does . The Regia is way hardier than Oleracae but still doesn’t like too much cold.  The weather chart Jim posted is deceptive , I’ve known of some pretty bad cold snaps that have hit that area in the past. Harry

[Jim in Los Altos]

43 minutes ago, Harry’s Palms said:

Again , Santa Clarita gets some very strong Santa Ana winds that Majesty Palms don’t like. Plus, it is a super arid environment out there .  The amount of water to keep a Majesty looking good in the summer would be enormous. Maybe a Roystonea Regia as @Jim in Los Altos suggests , but also like copious amounts of water . My Roystonea Oleracae doesn’t get torn up by the wind the way my Ravenea does . The Regia is way hardier than Oleracae but still doesn’t like too much cold.  The weather chart Jim posted is deceptive , I’ve known of some pretty bad cold snaps that have hit that area in the past. Harry

Harry, The chart is of course average temperatures. I’m sure an occasional freeze or 100°F temperature occurs in the area both of which a Roystonea regia or borinquena can handle well. I think it’s been since 2007 that a freeze down to upper 20’s occurred in that area.   

[SCVpalmenthusiast]

1 hour ago, Jim in Los Altos said:

In your zone, there are lots of choices. Have you considered Royal palms? You have mild winters and heat in the summer, both of which would be favorable. 
 

These are averages. The summer is hotter than that in recent years.  It’s probably 98 degrees on average from July to September. But tbh the winter is mild. The lowest temperature this winter has been 35 degrees for an hour or two in the morning last week. Ive never seen below freezing in the 13 years I’ve lived here. But historically its had some temps drop below freezing in some of the foothill areas.

The biggest problem with tropical palms isn’t the cold its the dry heat in the summer. The fronds get fried from lack of moisture. That’s why palms like Kentias or kings need to be under a canopy in the shade where there isn’t intense sun. At least that’s what im told. A lot of these nurseries would probably say your garden in Nor Cal is impossible lol. 

46 minutes ago, Harry’s Palms said:

Again , Santa Clarita gets some very strong Santa Ana winds that Majesty Palms don’t like. Plus, it is a super arid environment out there .  The amount of water to keep a Majesty looking good in the summer would be enormous. Maybe a Roystonea Regia as @Jim in Los Altos suggests , but also like copious amounts of water . My Roystonea Oleracae doesn’t get torn up by the wind the way my Ravenea does . The Regia is way hardier than Oleracae but still doesn’t like too much cold.  The weather chart Jim posted is deceptive , I’ve known of some pretty bad cold snaps that have hit that area in the past. Harry

The moisture in the summer is the killer. The royals are used to Florida high heat with high humidity. I wish I could grow those. My taste is very tropical 😭 

[SeanK]

How deep are your pockets?

[SCVpalmenthusiast]

1 minute ago, SeanK said:

How deep are your pockets?

Im budgeting a few grand with tree removal and everything. 

[Harry’s Palms]

28 minutes ago, SCVpalmenthusiast said:

These are averages. The summer is hotter than that in recent years.  It’s probably 98 degrees on average from July to September. But tbh the winter is mild. The lowest temperature this winter has been 35 degrees for an hour or two in the morning last week. Ive never seen below freezing in the 13 years I’ve lived here. But historically its had some temps drop below freezing in some of the foothill areas.

The biggest problem with tropical palms isn’t the cold its the dry heat in the summer. The fronds get fried from lack of moisture. That’s why palms like Kentias or kings need to be under a canopy in the shade where there isn’t intense sun. At least that’s what im told. A lot of these nurseries would probably say your garden in Nor Cal is impossible lol. 

The moisture in the summer is the killer. The royals are used to Florida high heat with high humidity. I wish I could grow those. My taste is very tropical 😭 

Yea , there is very little moisture to be had out there. The highs can reach well over 100f quite often. It is more like a desert in Santa Clarita than weather charts suggest. That’s why I don’t recommend Roystonea or other palms that do well in a more coastal environment. I am inland about 20 miles from the ocean and they are 45-50 miles inland . When the heat hits it will be 92 at my house and 105 out there with very low humidity. Brahea , Butia , or Mule palms would be much more adaptable to that climate than Majesty or Royal palms. I wouldn’t want to try to keep tropical looking feather palms looking nice in , basically, a desert environment. I guess it could be done but not without a lot of water and protection. I am out there on business 2-3 times a week and it is hot most days and quite a bit colder in winter . Harry

[SCVpalmenthusiast]

11 minutes ago, Harry’s Palms said:

Yea , there is very little moisture to be had out there. The highs can reach well over 100f quite often. It is more like a desert in Santa Clarita than weather charts suggest. That’s why I don’t recommend Roystonea or other palms that do well in a more coastal environment. I am inland about 20 miles from the ocean and they are 45-50 miles inland . When the heat hits it will be 92 at my house and 105 out there with very low humidity. Brahea , Butia , or Mule palms would be much more adaptable to that climate than Majesty or Royal palms. I wouldn’t want to try to keep tropical looking feather palms looking nice in , basically, a desert environment. I guess it could be done but not without a lot of water and protection. I am out there on business 2-3 times a week and it is hot most days and quite a bit colder in winter . Harry

We’re technically 33 miles from santa monica. But no one drives to Santa Monica because the drive to Ventura is much easier 😂 its an extra 20 miles but the drive on the 126 is a nice drive to the coast, as opposed to the hell that is the 405. I probably drive by you at least once a month. 

[Hu Palmeras]

🦜🌴

[SCVpalmenthusiast]

Im leaning heavily on the Pindo. Not as common as the queen, but hardier

I would want to trim it like this, similar to canary date. 

[SeanK]

You can probably get by with a queen-leaning mule. I love B.armata but they're slow and expen$$ive.

[SeanK]

1 minute ago, SCVpalmenthusiast said:

Im leaning heavily on the Pindo. Not as common as the queen, but hardier

I would want to trim it like this, similar to canary date. 

If it could be trimmed like a CIDP, it'd be nice.

[DoomsDave]

I concur with @Harry’s Palms about mule palms etc, but royals can rock the desert with enough water, which can get expensive after a while.

[Merlyn]

Alfredii are reliably hardy to upper 20s, with variable burn around 25...and maybe serious damage and/or death below about 23.  Butia are a bit hardier for sure.  Mules are in the same range (generally speaking) as Butia.  A super silver Butia would be pretty cool.  Alfredii get to HUGE frond diameter if allowed to grow to a full crown (like 50ish feet), but can also be trimmed to a more "shuttlecock" shape.  So part of your decision may be shape and final size too.

One other you could conside is a Jubaea, Parajubaea or a Butia x Jubaea hybrid.  I think all grow really well out there.

 

[DoomsDave]

1 hour ago, Jim in Los Altos said:

Harry, The chart is of course average temperatures. I’m sure an occasional freeze or 100°F temperature occurs in the area both of which a Roystonea regia or borinquena can handle well. I think it’s been since 2007 that a freeze down to upper 20’s occurred in that area.   

The averages are a nice guide for optimists; unfortunately sometimes you get bad winters a number of years in a row.

[DoomsDave]

9 minutes ago, SCVpalmenthusiast said:

Im leaning heavily on the Pindo. Not as common as the queen, but hardier

I would want to trim it like this, similar to canary date. 

Pindos are tough, oh yeah and the fruit is good to eat. They’re a good bit bulkier than a queen.

Buteagrus “mules” are even tougher but they get HUGE. I’ll have to share some pictures. They get bulky like a CIDP without the thorns.

[Hu Palmeras]

🦜🌴

[SCVpalmenthusiast]

49 minutes ago, DoomsDave said:

I concur with @Harry’s Palms about mule palms etc, but royals can rock the desert with enough water, which can get expensive after a while.

It’s technically not a desert, its Mediterranean climate. But the summers are dry and hot like the desert. We’re fairly close to the high desert, my in laws live there and its a lot colder in the winter and they receive a fraction of the rain. We got 25 inches so far, whereas Lancaster got 8. But the summers are hot and dry as a bone, which makes anyone from the coast think it’s a desert. 

Having a Royal would be a dream. Im just worried of the dry summers here. I think royals do well in high humidity like Florida. The palm would be on my lawn where I would be watering every day in the summer. 

[SCVpalmenthusiast]

58 minutes ago, Merlyn said:

Alfredii are reliably hardy to upper 20s, with variable burn around 25...and maybe serious damage and/or death below about 23.  Butia are a bit hardier for sure.  Mules are in the same range (generally speaking) as Butia.  A super silver Butia would be pretty cool.  Alfredii get to HUGE frond diameter if allowed to grow to a full crown (like 50ish feet), but can also be trimmed to a more "shuttlecock" shape.  So part of your decision may be shape and final size too.

One other you could conside is a Jubaea, Parajubaea or a Butia x Jubaea hybrid.  I think all grow really well out there.

 

I think the coldest its got in 20 years was 28 degrees. 

Now this would be a statement 

[awkonradi]

56 minutes ago, SCVpalmenthusiast said:

Having a Royal would be a dream. Im just worried of the dry summers here. I think royals do well in high humidity like Florida. The palm would be on my lawn where I would be watering every day in the summer. 

If you're already watering a lawn, then I'm not sure watering a royal would be much extra.  As Jim in Los Altos points out, a royal might like your temps just fine (edit: maybe OK).  As for a royals and humidity, here are reports about royals in Phoenix, AZ. 

Well-watered royals look good in Cabo San Lucas also.

[DoomsDave]

35 minutes ago, SCVpalmenthusiast said:

It’s technically not a desert, its Mediterranean climate. But the summers are dry and hot like the desert. We’re fairly close to the high desert, my in laws live there and its a lot colder in the winter and they receive a fraction of the rain. We got 25 inches so far, whereas Lancaster got 8. But the summers are hot and dry as a bone, which makes anyone from the coast think it’s a desert. 

Having a Royal would be a dream. Im just worried of the dry summers here. I think royals do well in high humidity like Florida. The palm would be on my lawn where I would be watering every day in the summer. 

Royals rock the desert! I’ve seen it, but they are THIRSTY EXPLETIVES.

[awkonradi]

Ken, are you on a south-facing slope with good cold drainage, by chance?

[SCVpalmenthusiast]

1 hour ago, awkonradi said:

If you're already watering a lawn, then I'm not sure watering a royal would be much extra.  As Jim in Los Altos points out, a royal might like your temps just fine (edit: maybe OK).  As for a royals and humidity, here are reports about royals in Phoenix, AZ. 

Well-watered royals look good in Cabo San Lucas also.

No way in hell its drier out here than Arizona. Maaaaan you guys are making me wanna buy a royal. That would honestly be a dream come true. 

[SCVpalmenthusiast]

1 hour ago, awkonradi said:

Ken, are you on a south-facing slope with good cold drainage, by chance?

Its north facing, and yes its perched up on a hill. My house is on a hill. The housing tract was built like stairs, so my first floor is my neighbors second story. I believe there would be good drainage. 

 

[SCVpalmenthusiast]

What if I got a potted Royal and just let it see how it does outside in the summer? Worst comes to worst I can move it. 

[awkonradi]

I think your low temps MAY be OK.  I am not sure.  If you're going to do the experiment, then I would do it as best as you can.  Buy a healthy, 6-foot royal, and put it in the ground immediately, and keep it well-watered.  Hopefully, the next winter will be a mild one.  You want as much growth as possible, before this palm is challenged by worst-case SCV cold events and thrashing dry wind events.

If you're OK with it, post some pictures of the exact possible planting site.  I think various SoCal PalmTalkers much wiser than me will contribute thoughts about making this experiment as strong as possible.

[Harry’s Palms]

If it were me ( it isn’t ) I wouldn’t gamble . Go with something that can handle the environment . A lot less stressful planting something that will survive easily. There are palms you can plant that will thrive there and look stunning and even tolerate less humidity and water. I have planted small palms that were borderline but I had a canopy and a much more forgiving climate. We get coastal , onshore breezes almost every day in the summer and I have a south facing hill for cold air drainage . The land between our home and the beach is flat so the coastal influences are great. Another 10 miles east on the 126 , Fillmore , is 10 degrees warmer and the air feels much different. Harry

These , for example , can tolerate arid climate . This was taken right after a rain event in November. I have two Chrysalidiocarpus Decaryi . This one gets a bit of shade from the Roystonia Oleracae (on the left) and a Syagrus out by the street. The other one is in my courtyard and gets full sun! Both have done great for over 25 years . They were just babies when I planted them. One of them would make a statement in your yard. They actually don’t like high humidity but do like fast draining soil with regular watering and some heat. Just a suggestion , Harry

Again , a rainy day pic. On sunny days this one basks in full sun. A bit smaller , it is 3-4 years younger than the other one. A great palm to hang a hammock for the Gnome!

[SCVpalmenthusiast]

46 minutes ago, Harry’s Palms said:

If it were me ( it isn’t ) I wouldn’t gamble . Go with something that can handle the environment . A lot less stressful planting something that will survive easily. There are palms you can plant that will thrive there and look stunning and even tolerate less humidity and water. I have planted small palms that were borderline but I had a canopy and a much more forgiving climate. We get coastal , onshore breezes almost every day in the summer and I have a south facing hill for cold air drainage . The land between our home and the beach is flat so the coastal influences are great. Another 10 miles east on the 126 , Fillmore , is 10 degrees warmer and the air feels much different. Harry

These , for example , can tolerate arid climate . This was taken right after a rain event in November. I have two Chrysalidiocarpus Decaryi . This one gets a bit of shade from the Roystonia Oleracae (on the left) and a Syagrus out by the street. The other one is in my courtyard and gets full sun! Both have done great for over 25 years . They were just babies when I planted them. One of them would make a statement in your yard. They actually don’t like high humidity but do like fast draining soil with regular watering and some heat. Just a suggestion , Harry

Again , a rainy day pic. On sunny days this one basks in full sun. A bit smaller , it is 3-4 years younger than the other one. A great palm to hang a hammock for the Gnome!

Is that a dypsis decaryi? I was considering that but my wife isn’t a fan. Out of all the palms she likes the canary date the best. Its a beautiful palm that thrives in my area, but those puppies are expensive mature. Several thousands of dollars. 
 

I think I am going to buy some kentias, kings, maybe a flame thrower for this area. Its in the corner of a south facing wall. It retains moisture so well it grows moss. Its also under the canopy of an olive and birch tree. 

 

You can see the difference of how the shade helps vs. this red Abyssinian banana tree i purchased two weeks ago. Its been sitting in full sun and getting burnt. 

I am confident I can grow things but need to be strategic about placement. You mentioned filmore, im right off newhall ranch which converts into the 126. Filmore is like 15-20 minutes away. Where do you get your palms Harry? Is there any place you would recommend? 

[DoomsDave]

10 hours ago, awkonradi said:

I think your low temps MAY be OK.  I am not sure.  If you're going to do the experiment, then I would do it as best as you can.  Buy a healthy, 6-foot royal, and put it in the ground immediately, and keep it well-watered.  Hopefully, the next winter will be a mild one.  You want as much growth as possible, before this palm is challenged by worst-case SCV cold events and thrashing dry wind events.

If you're OK with it, post some pictures of the exact possible planting site.  I think various SoCal PalmTalkers much wiser than me will contribute thoughts about making this experiment as strong as possible.

We can get pretty wise sometimes….

[SCVpalmenthusiast]

1 hour ago, DoomsDave said:

We can get pretty wise sometimes….

Where can I buy one? Most nurseries in my area only carry palms that are guaranteed to survive 

[TropicsEnjoyer]

Would Bismarkia be a viable option? I think it would be a statement palm but idk they might need a lot of water, i’m not really too knowledgeable about california.

[SCVpalmenthusiast]

19 hours ago, TropicsEnjoyer said:

Would Bismarkia be a viable option? I think it would be a statement palm but idk they might need a lot of water, i’m not really too knowledgeable about california.

They do really well in my climate, but I think they’re better as an accent, rather than the anchor. I prefer the aesthetic of feather fronds. Fan palms to me aren’t the best looking. 

[TropicsEnjoyer]

4 hours ago, SCVpalmenthusiast said:

They do really well in my climate, but I think they’re better as an accent, rather than the anchor. I prefer the aesthetic of feather fronds. Fan palms to me aren’t the best looking. 

ok that’s understandable, i prefer pinnates too. just was making a suggestion. a royal would look really nice if you do get one, as long as you’re willing to deal with the fronds that drop periodically. i was thinking Phoenix rupicola would look great too, but you say you want a statement not an accent 

[Palmerr]

I’d agree Maybe Majesty or Royal Palm. Tip get some drip line irrigation for them Nd drown them in mulch but make sure to put some type of wrapping around the bottom part of the trunk that would be covered by mulch to prevent rot Dry winds are not Majesties friends though so be careful.